Marcus Bontempelli Vs Patrick Cripps

Which player will have the better individual career?

  • Marcus Bontempelli

  • Patrick Cripps

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Lethality said:
Because they're laughably inaccurate, and if they were designed by Champion Data, they are obviously second rate to the ratings that Champion Data use for their own ranking system.
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how are they inaccurate?
 

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Zgope1 said:
how are they inaccurate?
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The most obvious way is in the way the ratings are calculated. Points seem to be given to players who have performed most recently instead of measuring the best performers in any given year. AFL ratings I assume are used for fantasy football which is fine if that's what you're after. In terms of methods which were constructed primarily to adjudge player performances, it's Champion Data's proprietary system.
 
Lethality said:
The most obvious way is in the way the ratings are calculated. Points seem to be given to players who have performed most recently instead of measuring the best performers in any given year. AFL ratings I assume are used for fantasy football which is fine if that's what you're after. In terms of methods which were constructed primarily to adjudge player performances, it's Champion Data's proprietary system.
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They assess players over a longer period than two years, if you look at the overall ratings instead of the points assigned on a weekly basis.

They've got their flaws like any other system, but they're closer to the mark in terms of assessing impact than SuperCoach/AF points, let alone randomly selected statistics.
 
TheHoneyBadger said:
they're closer to the mark in terms of assessing impact than SuperCoach/AF points, let alone randomly selected statistics.
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I'm talking about AF points here, and their inferiority to Champion Data rankings. What were you talking about? Clearly AF points can't be closer to the mark than AF points so it seems we're not even talking about the same thing.
 
Lethality said:
I'm talking about AF points here, and their inferiority to Champion Data rankings. What were you talking about? Clearly AF points can't be closer to the mark than AF points so it seems we're not even talking about the same thing.
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AFL Player Ratings, not AFL Fantasy.
 
Lethality said:
What's the difference between the two?
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Bontempelli is ranked 20th in the league across the past two seasons; Cripps is ranked 353rd. The rankings incorporate the last two seasons so Cripps is disadvantaged by virtue of not really playing last year. That said Bontempelli's rise is without precedent - he's made the top 20 two years quicker than any other player since the rankings were introduced.
 
calyam said:
The rankings incorporate the last two seasons so Cripps is disadvantaged by virtue of not really playing last year.
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Yeah there's your problem.

That said Bontempelli's rise is without precedent - he's made the top 20 two years quicker than any other player since the rankings were introduced.
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Not as impressive as it sounds since the rankings have only been introduced recently.
 
Lethality said:
AFL ranking points or AFL Fantasy, none of this proves zgope's claim that either are 'way better' than Champion Data rankings.
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The AFL Player Ratings are based on a formula derived by Champion Data. They incorporate a range of factors that are not captured by other advanced metrics such as those used for SuperCoach. By comparison, with the AFL Player Ratings I'm not even sure I'd consider the likes of SuperCoach to be an advanced metric anymore.
 

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calyam said:
The AFL Player Ratings are based on a formula derived by Champion Data.
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So are Dream Team.

They incorporate a range of factors that are not captured by other advanced metrics such as those used for SuperCoach.
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I haven't seen anything advanced in the explanation of AFL Rankings relative to Champion Data . . . I suspect you're only talking about stats that are not released to the public or published on Supercoach websites.
 
calyam said:
Bontempelli is ranked 20th in the league across the past two seasons; Cripps is ranked 353rd. The rankings incorporate the last two seasons so Cripps is disadvantaged by virtue of not really playing last year. That said Bontempelli's rise is without precedent - he's made the top 20 two years quicker than any other player since the rankings were introduced.
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Good point. It'll be interesting to see where Cripps sits mid-2016.

As you said though, it doesn't detract from Bontempelli's meteoric rise.
 
TheHoneyBadger said:
Good point. It'll be interesting to see where Cripps sits mid-2016.

As you said though, it doesn't detract from Bontempelli's meteoric rise.
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Cripps first season is fairly similar to Bontempelli's first season. He gets a lot more of the ball but he also tends to handball a lot which limits his impact on the contest. Bontempelli's first season wasn't particularly amazing compared with a number of first year players - it's been the massive step that he has taken in his second season that has truly separated him from the pack.
 
Zgope1 said:
would you agree on this?

Irrespective of who's better overall, if the ball is in dispute, you'd rather Cripps, and if the ball was in hand, you'd rather Bonts. I think it's a testament to both that neither are weak in the area i have them losing- in fact both are quite good
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I'd say that's definitely close. It depends how much space either have I reckon. Bont with the ball in hand with a metre between him and an opponent. Cripps with the ball in hand if they are any closer.
 
calyam said:
Cripps first season is fairly similar to Bontempelli's first season. He gets a lot more of the ball but he also tends to handball a lot which limits his impact on the contest. Bontempelli's first season wasn't particularly amazing compared with a number of first year players - it's been the massive step that he has taken in his second season that has truly separated him from the pack.
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Bontempelli 2014: 16 games, 11.7 points average (116th in AFL)
Bontempelli 2015: 19 games, 16.9 points average (8th in AFL)

Cripps 2015: 19 games, 10.5 points average (156th in AFL)
Cripps 2016: ???
 
Zgope1 said:
yeah the simplified who can get the ball more if they try thing is exhausting. Not the aim of the game.

When it comes to turning sticky situations into brilliant ones that break the play up, Bont is better for a variety of reasons. 1. He's better by hand (yes, Cripps is good by hand). 2. He's better by foot and has a raking accurate kick. Very good right too. 3. He can run away/through congestion.

There's no need not to believe Cripps won't be the best extractor in the AFL, but being a top 20 ranked afl player, 2 years younger than anyone before, there's little reason to believe Bont won't be the best mid in the game.

Extremely good prospects with lots of similarities, but one has many a more string to his bow
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Although I agree Bont is better, this part is objectively wrong.
 
Champion_Data said:
Bontempelli 2014: 16 games, 11.7 points average (116th in AFL)
Bontempelli 2015: 19 games, 16.9 points average (8th in AFL)

Cripps 2015: 19 games, 10.5 points average (156th in AFL)
Cripps 2016: ???
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Did Cripps debut last year?
 
SickQwon said:
Although I agree Bont is better, this part is objectively wrong.
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Well nah, it's not objectively wrong. You disagreeing with it doesn't make it objectively wrong. That's the one I'd be closest to conceding as even between the two of them. Bonts has released many a play this year to convert it from contest and congestion, to outright advantage. His threat of handball is in fact why he breaks lines so easily and makes time slow down. The closest they are is even, but Cripps ain't better by hand
 
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