Opinion Are we the worst traders in the AFL?

[Gollo]

I wouldn't. Quickest way to a premiership team is to get more quality picks and nail them. Higher risk higher reward.
We paid overs for Boyd and think we should have at least got another pick back. 6 could very well be better than Boyd, who knows. But I get we needed it for the club and supporters.

We are no where near the worst traders though.

Jarrod Pickett will not be better than Boyd. No way.

 

[_Mike_]

Neither Grant or Talia have any trade value & the proof is there when there are no clubs showing interest in either of them. Grant let us down in the final when he had to stand up and Talia IMO just isnt consistent enough to warrant a starting selection on a regular basis

 

[BEaston]

Well it is that time of year again! The time when many long time Bulldog supporters break into a cold sweat, anticipating trade news updates with all the excitement of a kid visiting the dentist.

I sincerely hope we relinquish our reigning title holder status as the undisputed worst traders in the league, and that Luke Beveridge will somehow improve our trading performance in a similar manner to the way he improved our football team on the field this season.

Unfortunately I fear that we will fare poorly once again. Already we appear set to lose Talia and Grant, our best full back IMO and a wing/half forward with unique capabilities that we have finally discovered a natural role for. Of course the way we have handled them leading into the trade period has been far from ideal in terms of optimising their trade value. So as usual I am expecting to receive less than we give up.

Hoping for the best, bracing myself for the worst.

My god, you're negative.

Grant is a free agent, nothing to do with trading. How can we "optimise" his trade value?
In case you missed it, Talia has probably given away our game plan to opposition. I guess you are blaming the club for that? Wouldn't be surprised if you thought people deserved harassment based on their clothing. Apart from that, Talia has only been crap to mediocre anyway. His trade value is what it is.

Since 2011 these are the trades I can remember making:
Hudson - WIN
Stevens - WIN
Crameri - WIN
Biggs - WIN
Darley - No net result based on price paid (ie didn't exceed expectations or disappoint)
Young - No net result based on price paid (ie didn't exceed expectations or disappoint)
Boyd - Too early to tell
Lake - I think it's still too early to tell, but for your sake I'll chalk this one up as a LOSS

So that's 1/8 miss rate and 4/8 hit rate. How exactly does that make us the worst traders in the league?

Do you agree/disagree with my ratings?

 

[BEaston]

Also we have consistently traded in decent picks for spuddy or cooked players.... Jones, McMahon, Ray, Cooney

 

[_Mike_]

We've done very well considering.. Biggs was a good get IMO and we got him for a player who had nothing left to offer us

 

[gangsta deluxe]

We have a sad history of buying high and selling low. From the infamous Veale deal to get Jade Rawlings, the Brian Lake trade, and now giving up Griffen and Pick 6 to get Tom Boyd, we almost always blink first and either pay more or get less than we should.

You've picked up on three bad trades as the empirical evidence to support your argument, and you had to go back over a ******* decade to do it. Moreover, in one of the recent trades you have pointed at we were under the barrel. We weren't going to get better for Griffen, and if you think we were, I suggest you look at and review the context of the trade. The Lake one is the only one where we may have got better - but we may have also pulled the trigger early for reasons that you are unaware of (i.e. that was actually the last offer and the list managers didnt want to * around with each other to maintain a good relationship). To assume that we ****ed up without knowing all relevant facts demonstrates that you will be a pessimist about what has happened in any context about any matter for no good reason. In sum, you take a simple view of things to accord with your world view rather than actually trying to understand the context surrounding out decisions and the decisions themselves in an educated way. This is visible in your posting history (in a way, you are pathologically stupid).

I'm all for your argument if you have empirical support. You do not with the examples you have used. You would need to do an analysis far superior to this one to make a meaningful argument, and focus on all of our trades in recent years (with the relevant list and recruitment managers).

It would be like pointing out that Hawthorn are the worst drafters in the AFL by picking on some choice examples, like the Garlett pick up a few years ago.

Mods, I would appreciate it if you could close, or change the title of this thread. The discussion demeans us all because the premise of it is thoroughly faulty.

 

[Mofra]

Also we have consistently traded in decent picks for spuddy or cooked players.... Jones, McMahon, Ray, Cooney

We turned Ray into Jones - that's a fail.
Jones into Caleb Daniel - may be too early to tell but early signs are good
McMahon turned into Ward then Macrae - huge win
A Cooked Cooney into Biggs + Hamilton - Biggs has overtaken Cooney already. Win.

We're doing ok.

I'm a huge fan of the Biggs deal - AFL quality player for nothing.
The Hamling trade was excellent too - cost little and he's already an important player on our list

 

[Dog 36]

Neither Grant or Talia have any trade value & the proof is there when there are no clubs showing interest in either of them. Grant let us down in the final when he had to stand up and Talia IMO just isnt consistent enough to warrant a starting selection on a regular basis

Talia hurt us more in the final than Grant and he didn't even play.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Congratutions to everybody that has risen to the same bait two years in a row.

I is a disappoint in youse.

 

[lachy]

Congratutions to everybody that has risen to the same bait two years in a row.

I is a disappoint in youse.

Yep shocking thread with a premise that even in the most subjective way of looking at things is blatantly wrong

 

[TiAn_]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fremantle_Football_Club_drafting_and_trading_history

 

[Testekill]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fremantle_Football_Club_drafting_and_trading_history

Seriously, Fremantle has such a s**t history of trading that this thread is just plain wrong and stupid.

Then again, it was started and then bumped by perpetual s**t-stirrer Proffessor.

 

[_Mike_]

Please folks, lets not call out posters on opinions.

 

[_Mike_]

Talia hurt us more in the final than Grant and he didn't even play.

not arguing there if the allegations are true. Grant hasnt done enough to deserve his position and frankly speaking Im glad that this club for once is starting to take a hard line with non-performers when our list position permits

 

[_Mike_]

Jones into Caleb Daniel - may be too early to tell but early signs are good
A Cooked Cooney into Biggs + Hamilton - Biggs has overtaken Cooney already. Win.

In terms of determination and endeavor, Daniel is miles ahead of Jones

 

[Mofra]

In terms of determination and endeavor, Daniel is miles ahead of Jones

So is "The Dude"
Even if that's just, like, my opinion man

 

[_Mike_]

So is "The Dude"
Even if that's just, like, my opinion man

totally gnarly man, like totally...

 

[Dog 36]

not arguing there if the allegations are true. Grant hasnt done enough to deserve his position and frankly speaking Im glad that this club for once is starting to take a hard line with non-performers when our list position permits

I am a fan of J.Grant but I also understand the club needs the flexibility with list management with trade week and the compulsory 3 picks in the National Draft.

Grant in the eyes of Bev and Co did enough to warrant 18 games plus a final this season so I would say this year at least he deserved his position and wasn't as bad as some make out.

Sometimes timing is everything and for Grant the fact he is out of contract and we require flexibility during trade week he may get squeezed out but I cant complain about season 15 from him.

As for Talia don't start me sounds like he cracked the s***s and did us no favours at all.

 

[lachy]

Addressing the thread itself:
The following clubs are worse traders in the AFL particularly over the last 15 years:
Adelaide
Brisbane
Carlton
Collingwood
Essendon
Fremantle
Melbourne
Richmond
St Kilda

Therefore, at the very worst we are the 10th worst traders in the AFL on a par with Geelong, North Melbourne and Port Adelaide

 

[Testekill]

I think they will finish closer to the top of the ladder than we will.

Good call buddy, it's not like Essendon were a ******* joke or anything this season.

 

[maddog37]

Please folks, lets not call out posters on opinions.

If they continue to flog a dead horse then they deserve it.

 

[stefoid]

Wow Necro thread!

I think what it comes down to is this: all we have to do from a list management perspective is add 2 or 3 really good players to the team every year, who play in positions that the team needs them to play.

If we do that, then we will have a list that is perennially stocked with really good players. Its so simple!

Drafts, trades, salary cap is all a means to that end. Its getting the couple of really good players that is the goal.

So bearing that in mind, if you end up with a really good player, you cant really pay too much and if you end up with a dud, you always overpay.

I guess what Im saying is that picking the right target is way more important than what you end up paying - there is no glory to be had for shrewd bargaining to obtain a dud player.

 

[ManOfClay]

We turned Ray into Jones - that's a fail.
Jones into Caleb Daniel - may be too early to tell but early signs are good
McMahon turned into Ward then Macrae - huge win
A Cooked Cooney into Biggs + Hamilton - Biggs has overtaken Cooney already. Win.

We're doing ok.

I'm a huge fan of the Biggs deal - AFL quality player for nothing.
The Hamling trade was excellent too - cost little and he's already an important player on our list

Hammer was a DFA and not a trade I thought?

 

[GreatSouthWest]

Hammer was a DFA and not a trade I thought?

Corr-ect

 

[Proffessor]

You don't rate Biggs (for a small pick downgrade) and Hamling (for nought)?

I'm not sure that picking up essentially discarded players counts as shrewd trading, more shrewd recruiting.

I'm not saying that we have never made a good trade, we have. Barry Hall and Jason Akermanis are a couple of names that spring immediately to mind that were pretty good value. In fact we tend to do a bit better when we trade picks rather than players.

I think we have a slight tendency to under value our own playing talent and overvalue the playing talent that we are seeking, but most of all we tend to misjudge our bargaining positions and accept poorer terms of trade rather than being prepared to walk away from the table.

Hawthorn is a power club and do a lot of things right in terms of recruitment, player management, coaching, etc., but they also have also been the beneficiaries of numerous trades that massively favoured them. They have taken clubs like us, Fremantle and North Melbourne to the cleaners on multiple occasions. We need to stop giving up so much ground to our competitors in this area.

Hopefully this year we be the start of turning things around.