Who knows anything about Tasmanian football ?

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mud n blood

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Simple questions ....

What is the major league actually called ?
Is there a web page ?
Did there used to be two major leagues ?
What is the B & F medal called ?
Does anyone have a complete premiership list and list of medal winners ?

Who is our resident Tas-wegia footy guru ?


------------------
Anyway, that's what I reckon ........

mud n blood
 
Originally posted by mud n blood:
Simple questions ....

What is the major league actually called ?
Is there a web page ?
Did there used to be two major leagues ?
What is the B & F medal called ?
Does anyone have a complete premiership list and list of medal winners ?

Who is our resident Tas-wegia footy guru ?
Click to expand...

I have a lot of friends and rellies down there. I can help you out here a bit.
The league is known as the SWL Statewide League. There is a lot of trouble down there at the moment. The football does not attract the crowds it used to and a lot of people are extremely pissed off with the administration. The fans claim that the admin have ruined the football there. The SWL had been formed for about 14 years, although it has had a few name changes in that time. Before the formation of the statewide competition there were about 3 different major leagues. Those were the TFL (consisting of southern sides) the NTFL(northern sides) NWFU (north west sides)
The B&F medal is known as the William Leitch.
I'll see if I can find out more for you.
Like I said there is a lot of dissent down there at the moment. Most people are disappointed in what just ten years ago was a strong competition and a state that has produced champions at VFL/AFL level has managed to let it's competition go to such a level.
 
Much appreciated .....

If you end up with something "hardcopy" (medal & premership lists) , let me know so I can give you some contact details.

------------------
Anyway, that's what I reckon ........

mud n blood
 

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Mund n Blood,

Bee (aka Bitch) has given you most of the answers. but here is a few more.

1). Web site: http://come.to/tsfl

2). You will find a list of medal winners and premiership teams in the History section of the web site. Although it is NOT complete! Dont ask me why!

3). I'm your resident Tassie member. But i'm hardly a guru.

4). Just to correct Bee, the league consisting of southern teams is called the SFL (Southern Football League.) The TFL came about when teams formed a league against both ends of the state.

Anyway, that will do for now because thats all I can remember off the top of my head!

Cheers.
beerchug.gif
 
Until 1986 the NTFA, NWFU, and TFL arguably had equal status, but since then the Statewide League has been the senior body.

The major football bodies with their date spans have been:

Tasmanian Football League (TFL) 1879-1985

Tasmanian Statewide Football League 1986-present
(now known as Statewide Football League) [SWL]

North Western Football Union (NWFU) 1910-1986

Northern Tasmanian Football Association (NTFA) 1886-1986

Northern Tasmanian Football League (NTFL)1987-present

Greater Northern Football League (GNFL) 1981-1982

I think this latter competition had one of the weirder arrangements that I've heard of...
it was made up of 9 NWFU sides and 6 NTFA teams who played about a round and a half in each season. At finals time the two competitions reverted back to their own final four. Therefore, your club could finish 13th on the GNFL ladder (but 4th among the NTFA clubs) and still play in the finals!!! At the end of the season NWFU premiers played the NTFA premiers with the winner declared GNFL champion. What a scenario, finish 13th and still win the flag!

Another memory I have from that time - Phil Manassa was playing on the NW Coast and each Saturday he would be guest columnist in The Examiner (Launceston) making selections for that particular round of matches. One week Longford were due to play Latrobe (I think I've got the teams right). Both were near the bottom of the ladder. Phil couldn't decide who would win, so he predicted a draw. And, yes...
they played the game, and it was a draw.

Each of the best & fairest awards have had various names over the years. I'm starting to build up a set of those lists at my Sport & History site. The NTFA premiers, plus B&F winners are now online at: http://au.geocities.com/sportandhistory/spt.html

Like CJ, I am surprised the tsfl site only lists details back to 1986.

Between the few of us who've responded to you MNB, I think we'll be able to answer most questions.

The Croucher
 
The guys have given you most of the info you asked for - the list of TFL premiers before 1986 is hard to find on the web but is in books such as "Every Game Ever Played".

The TFL (Hobart), NWFU (NW coast)and NTFA (Launceston) were good, well-supported competitions in the 60s and 70s but by the end of the 70s there was considerable tension between them regarding statewide football issues, eg state representative team selection, funding of lower level leagues and country football etc. The TFL took control of football statewide in 1979ish and tried to create the beginnings of a statewide league by running a pre-season competition involving all the teams (20!) from the three major leagues in 1980. On-field this was pretty successful and supporters enjoyed it but the off-field administrators continued the bickering. The TFL told the NTFA and NWFU to get lost in 1981 and went it alone as far as state team selection etc - a pretty arrogant move which naturally upset the northern competitions. This triggered the formation of the Greater Northern Football League of all the NTFA and NWFU teams (and the ludicrous finals format mentioned above). This "civil war" wasn't helped by a couple of NTFA teams applying to join the TFL in 1983 in a move similar to Port Adelaide's early attempt to join the AFL. The logistics weren't sorted out in time so it didn't happen.
In 1984 there was a set of matches between the TFL, NTFA and NWFU over the Queens Birthday weekend with lots of scores to settle! The TFL beat both the other comps by about 100 points and this led to a strong desire by some strong northern clubs, eg North Launceston, to form a statewide league with the TFL. This happened in 1986 when North Launceston and a perennial losing team, East Launceston, were added to the 6 team TFL from the NTFA.
EL were a good choice for off-field reasons but a very bad one for on-field as the team with the longest and greatest rivalry with NL in the NTFA was City South. Soon after City South merged with EL to form South Launceston but this was a manufactured club which nobody loved and the rivalry was gone.
Devonport and Burnie (from the NW) joined in 1987 to form a 10 team league which seemed to have all the right ingredients for success - statewide inclusion, fairly evenly matched teams, some age-old rivalries, good facilities etc.

So why did it all go wrong? My view is that there are two main reasons. The teams overspent trying to win flags - Devonport won in 1988 and they are still effectively bankrupt as a club - and the saturation coverage on TV of the AFL. From 1982 every Swans home match was shown live in Tassie and for much of the last 10 years there have been four or five AFL games on TV. When people have a choice of paying to watch a match live between two local, less-talented teams in the cold weather or staying at home and watching the elite national competition on TV for free then the choice of being lazy is pretty easy. This led to a decline in crowds and further financial pressure on teams until ultimately some folded (Sandy Bay - my team), South Launceston, and others were booted out because of imminent collapse (Hobart and New Norfolk). This has left a six team competition with three teams from Hobart, one from Launceston and two from the NW coast. Sadly, Devonport's continuing near insolvency has made them uncompetitive, some other clubs are viable but not well-funded, so the whole thing has boiled down to a two team elite - Clarence and North Launceston - and four also-rans. C and NL play good footy against each other in front of 3-5,000 people (about average for the 60s and 70s attendances) while the rest play in front of a few hundred fans at best and fight to make up the final four.
And the future? It seems to me that the statewide league will fold, Clarence and North Launceston will eventually play in the VFL (and they would be competitive there - Tasmania's half million people still produce good players and with them split between just two teams at the elite level they would be strong), and the NTFL (Northern Tasmanian Football League - the rest of the old NTFA and NWFU teams) and SFL (Southern Football League - the combined Amateur and Huon competitions plus ex-TFL teams Hobart and New Norfolk) will provide the local football entertainment. This year, nearly as many fans went to the SFL grand final at North Hobart as went to the SWL grand final (between Clarence and North Launceston, of course) at York Park.
Well, I just re-read this and two things come to mind - I write too much (!) and the whole subject is very depressing for someone who grew up with the epic Sandy Bay/Glenorchy stoushes of the 70s and early 80s.
 
Mud n Blood,
I tried to find out last night from some of my rellies down in Tassie. I am afraid I can't add much more to what the others have told you. My rellies down there are staunch North Hobart supporters(now known as the Hobart Demons). They suggest trying to contact Football Tasmania and asking them if there is a list of premierships and medal winners available. But they(my rellies) tell me to make sure I let you know that their beloved Demons have won a massive total of 26 premierships since being formed in 1881. A team steeped in pride and tradition.
The opinion I got last night was that most people were hoping that football in Tassie would return to what it was 14 years ago. That is with three regional leagues.
The contact number for Football Tasmania is 03 6234 9177.
Also the opinion of most people down there about the AFL is not good. They seem to think that the AFL take, take, take from Tassie football and give nothing back. Unfortunately I can well believe that!
smile.gif
 
There you go MNB, plenty of info for you.
By the way, why did you want to know about Tassie Footy? are you making a web site or something?

If you are making one, please keep us informed.

Cheers.
beerchug.gif
 
When it comes to footy I'm a history nut! The history, traditions, legends and anecdotes (that get better with each telling!) are what I love about footy. I feel that's what makes a good game great.

As for my reasons, they are three-fold ....

1. Yes, a website is in the planning stages and I'm just collating tonnes of "crap" to pore over, to go on there. Primarily, it'll be Brisbane stuff, but I want to have plenty of stuff that'll interest any footy fans that visit.

2. I run an AFL tipping comp each year - 7 so far - (pretty rare for Brisbane!) and put out a booklet of "history stuff" about my comp for all my competitors. Because I now have people in it from Sydney, Adelaide, and Perth, I now want to also add premiership and medal list pages for all the major leagues in each state. (I love that s**t ....)

and 3 .... I'm educating myself on leagues I know absolutely bugger-all about !!!! (ie Sydney, Tassie, NT) I know the AFLQ like the back of my hand, and I'm fairly well up to speed on the SANFL, VFA and Westar (had mates play in all of them!) .... so basically I'm scratching an itch.

I love the "regional" forum .... but I too would kill to have a "history" forum on here as well. (I got a sh!tload of crack-up stories and anecdotes I could plaster on there.

Anyway, that's it in a nutshell .... a bloody big nutshell ....

catcha!

------------------
Anyway, that's what I reckon ........

mud n blood
 
Took a peek at some of those sites .... thanx, gang!

Question about Tassie though .... again ....

On the two lists, the 1986 premiers show different grand finals. I take it that they are naturally two separate leagues prior to the adoption of the one "senior" league in 1986 (I assume!). Who do the pundits adopt as the "real" 1986 premiers for the senior league ?

Secondly, why is 1901 a "disputed" flag ?

Thirdly, there were no premiers listed for 1898, 1897 or 1896. Was there no premiership those years because of the Boer War, maybe ?

Any ideas appreciated .....
 
Originally posted by mud n blood:
Took a peek at some of those sites .... thanx, gang!

Question about Tassie though .... again ....

On the two lists, the 1986 premiers show different grand finals. I take it that they are naturally two separate leagues prior to the adoption of the one "senior" league in 1986 (I assume!). Who do the pundits adopt as the "real" 1986 premiers for the senior league ?

Secondly, why is 1901 a "disputed" flag ?

Thirdly, there were no premiers listed for 1898, 1897 or 1896. Was there no premiership those years because of the Boer War, maybe ?

Any ideas appreciated .....
Click to expand...

MnD I think the 1986 premiership is listed as two because the official statewide league did not start until 1987. In 1986 the league included teams from the Hobart area and the Launceston area. In 1987 teams from the North West Coast joined which then officially made it the Statewide League. I believe, and I may be wrong, that the premier mentioned in 1986 would be Glenorchy? The 1901 dispute. I think you may be confused with the different leagues at that time. From what I am told the dispute was in the NTFA (Launceston area) I believe the final was between Launceston and North Launceston and a point given by a goal umpire was disputed. North Launceston claimed they won. Launceston claimed they won. The league offered the teams the opportunity to play the game again but both refused. For some reason the league decided that Launceston had won. In those days there was also a statewide premiership where the premier from the south played the premier from the north to decide the best team in the state. Launceston played Lefroy (southern side) it was won by Lefroy.
My rellies are all from Hobart so they are not too sure about football that originated from the north of the state but they reckon this is pretty spot on.
smile.gif
 
Originally posted by mud n blood:
Took a peek at some of those sites .... thanx, gang!

Question about Tassie though .... again ....

On the two lists, the 1986 premiers show different grand finals. I take it that they are naturally two separate leagues prior to the adoption of the one "senior" league in 1986 (I assume!). Who do the pundits adopt as the "real" 1986 premiers for the senior league ?

Secondly, why is 1901 a "disputed" flag ?

Thirdly, there were no premiers listed for 1898, 1897 or 1896. Was there no premiership those years because of the Boer War, maybe ?

Any ideas appreciated .....
Click to expand...

Bee is pretty well on the ball with the response about the disputed 1901 flag in the NTFA. I'm still researching a couple of instances like that and will update my site soon. And re:1986...well I still regard the three regions as having equal status that year so: East Devonport (with Graeme Wright in the side) were NWFU premiers, Scottsdale won the NTFA title, and Glenorchy the TFL flag.

As for no premiers in 1896-97-98 NTFA seasons. Well, basically I haven't listed any because in my opinion the NTFA as a senior body did not exist in those years.

Footy was at a really low ebb due to violence on & off the field, plus other social factors, possibly including effects of the 1890s Depression. The local papers shunned the sport to an extraordinary level. Oh! And another factor I believe may have been illegal betting on games and the ensuing public outcry.

Certainly, after the 1895 season and before the 1899 season, the northern association went through a number of administrative changes.

Mind you, this is just my opinion. Events such as these are among the reasons I had wondered about the formation of a history group. The responses on this and the AFL Board have been very pleasing...and, yes, I'd like to ask too: Bluey, can we please have a separate History Board set up?
 
MNB, if you are interested in unusual incidents then the 1966 State Grand Final between Hobart from the TFL and Wynyard from the NWFU is a good one. Wynyard led by three points when the Hobart full forward took a mark in the goal-square just as the siren went. There was much dispute about whether he had marked the ball before the siren went or not. The NTFA umpire paid the mark but before he could take a shot at goal (and win the game for Hobart) the local NW supporters stormed the ground and removed the goalposts!

In another incident in 1973 statewide expectations were dashed. In those days the three premiers played off for the State Premiership and in 1973 on the second last Saturday of the season the two northern premiers, Scottsdale and Latrobe (?) were playing in the State Preliminary Final while Sandy Bay and Hobart were playing in the TFL grand final with the two winners meeting the next week in the State GF. What made it interesting was that at that stage neither Scottsdale nor Sandy Bay had been beaten all year. Everyone was talking about the State GF as the 'Game of the Century' when the two unbeaten teams would meet. Well, Scottsdale did their bit by winning but Sandy Bay lost, their only defeat for the season in the GF! Hobart had made the TFL final four on percentage after a narrow win in the final round yet had clawed their way to the premiership. The State GF was an anti-climax as Scottsdale won easily but folklore says more than half the Hobart players were still drunk when they took the field after a hard week of celebrating the biggest upset in TFL history.
 

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Unbelievable .... even I had the story of the '66 final and the goalposts ! Incredible what stories filter thru', especially to a relatively non-AFL state like bananaland.

------------------
Anyway, that's what I reckon ........

mud n blood
 
Originally posted by mud n blood:
Unbelievable .... even I had the story of the '66 final and the goalposts ! Incredible what stories filter thru', especially to a relatively non-AFL state like bananaland.
Click to expand...
MNB
Tim had the story from 1966 almost spot on. Except the team was North Hobart, not Hobart. Although North Hobart is now known as the Hobart Demons. My rel's who are staunch Demon supporters have told me this story many times. They were actually there at the match.Also the fullforward in question, David Collins refused to give the ball up and shoved it up under his jumper. He still has that ball to this day. Another little tidbit on the '73 grand final. Tim, is correct that Sandy Bay had not been beaten all year, in fact leading up to that GF game, they had won 20 in a row. Apparently they had a smart arse banner that read "21 Today". But the most amazing thing about it was, Hobart just scraped into the finals after losing most of their games all year. They sacked their coach and replaced him with another half way through the season. They began to win and kept on winning. From all accounts the scenes after the game were pure emotion.
smile.gif
 
aaaaaah .... real footy in the "good ole days" .... this is the sh!t I love.

We definitely need a board specifically for historical data and info questions between users, and for all of us (especially old-timers like me!) to tell these stories over and over again. What a laugh.

It'd be a crack-up .....

------------------
Anyway, that's what I reckon ........

mud n blood
 
Yes, T-i-P, got the basic thread of those stories right. Certainly part of Tas footy folklore.

The State GF between Wynyard & North Hobart was in 1967. The ball which was marked but never kicked, but has had at least one public showing since then.

The Queen Victoria Museum & Art Gallery in Launceston has a Community History Department sited a couple of blocks from the main building. CHD is where I work and in 1994 we held an exhibition called "Carn The North", mainly being about northern footy but including just a few items and refs to other areas of Tas. That ball from the '67 game was one of the items on display.

re: 1973.
Scottsdale played Hobart in State Prelim. Final and then defeated Cooee in State Grand Final the following week. But I do remember Sandy Bay's loss in TFL GF being a huge upset.

Latrobe had dominated the handful of years leading up to this. Baldock had returned, and John Jillard was with them too. Both won the Wander Medal (NWFU B & F) during that time.

In fact, just looking at a list in front of me, a Latrobe player won that award every year from 1964 to 1971!

I wonder if anyone is aware of another major league where the best & fairest award has been won by players from the same club in eight consec. seasons like that?

and Gonzo: Mark Browning coached Hobart to a premiership in the Statewide League season of 1990.
 
Tim in Philly - Being in Hobart on SFL GF day the other week I went to NH oval and watched Kermandie (?) v New Norfolk and was impressed by the size and passion of the crowd - they said 5000. It was pissing rain but the footy was OK. Surprised Kermandie won pretty easy - considering NN was a SWL team the year before.

Anyway, I thought I read a while ago that Sandy bay had reformed as the Southern Cats (?) but there was no mention of them in the local record. Are they still around ?
 
Thanks to all who corrected the details I couldn't remember on the 1966(7) and 1973 incidents. I thought the team was Hobart so guessed it was '66 because I knew NH won in 1967. Hobart won the GF in 1966 by a point after a Glenorchy player marked 30m in front of goal but tried to pass the ball rather than take a shot and the siren went as the ball was in flight.

There was another epic finish in the 60s between those two clubs when Hobart led by 4 points at 3QT in very wet conditions - and neither team scored at all in the final quarter! No doubt there were a few tales of woe out of that day.

Sandy Bay did become the Southern Cats by merging a few years ago with the Hobart Tigers (which led to North Hobart Demons changing their name to the Hobart Demons). They went broke after about a year.

Sandy Bay had one other season where they lost just one game - 1976. That year the loss was to Clarence in a roster game at Bellerive when Trevor Sorrell, the Clarence Captain/Coach kicked a goal after the siren to win the game by a point. SB didn't waste the good form in the GF as they had in 1973. They beat Glenorchy by 97 points to win the flag after three consecutive grand final losses. SB played in every GF from 1971 to 1978 winning five and losing three.

I was last in Hobart in September and there was much talk of re-forming the TFL with the original six clubs but resurrecting Sandy Bay would be tricky.
 
Just a note on the 67 final. An interesting point. The coach of North Hobart was ex Geelong player, John Devine. Devine took North Hobart into three consecutive premierships 67 68 69. Winning in 67 & 69. He again took over as coach in 74 and once again took them to a premiership.
BTW Tim. I don't think Sandy Bay amalgamated with Hobart. Hobart were cut from the league and then joined the SFL. Sandy Bay changed their name to the Southern Cats but stayed in the league. They disbanded a couple of seasons later.
smile.gif
 
Originally posted by the croucher:

and Gonzo: Mark Browning coached Hobart to a premiership in the Statewide League season of 1990.
Click to expand...


Thanks Croucher

Did actually play for Hobart u17's, u19's(and a couple of Reserve games) so I should have known that one I guess!
wink.gif
 
Tim_in_Philly said:
MNB, if you are interested in unusual incidents then the 1966 State Grand Final between Hobart from the TFL and Wynyard from the NWFU is a good one. Wynyard led by three points when the Hobart full forward took a mark in the goal-square just as the siren went. There was much dispute about whether he had marked the ball before the siren went or not. The NTFA umpire paid the mark but before he could take a shot at goal (and win the game for Hobart) the local NW supporters stormed the ground and removed the goalposts!

In another incident in 1973 statewide expectations were dashed. In those days the three premiers played off for the State Premiership and in 1973 on the second last Saturday of the season the two northern premiers, Scottsdale and Latrobe (?) were playing in the State Preliminary Final while Sandy Bay and Hobart were playing in the TFL grand final with the two winners meeting the next week in the State GF. What made it interesting was that at that stage neither Scottsdale nor Sandy Bay had been beaten all year. Everyone was talking about the State GF as the 'Game of the Century' when the two unbeaten teams would meet. Well, Scottsdale did their bit by winning but Sandy Bay lost, their only defeat for the season in the GF! Hobart had made the TFL final four on percentage after a narrow win in the final round yet had clawed their way to the premiership. The State GF was an anti-climax as Scottsdale won easily but folklore says more than half the Hobart players were still drunk when they took the field after a hard week of celebrating the biggest upset in TFL history.
Click to expand...
 
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