Player Watch Tom Doedee - Departed for Brisbane, End of 1st Round FA Compensation

[Elder van Berlo]

So we're back to hating trade week again?

Anyway

http://footyprophet.com/the-draft-as-it-happened/

Just had a quick read of that. He makes Paige Cardona sound like a pessimist.

Edit: It is Paige Cardona! Explains a lot.

 

[marty36]

You want to see a smokey draft selection ......I'll show you a REAL smokey

32 – Collingwood – Brayden Sier
Put simply, this kid looks like he just finished eating Mark Wahlberg and was ready to go back for seconds. Sier wasn’t well known, he didn’t have a draft profile on the AFL website and didn’t even get an invite to the state combine, let alone the national combine. For the tin-foilers, the Pies obviously hid him at Marcellin all year. I only managed to catch one game of his two; my draft notes read “Huge kid, strong body, loves to tackle and gets his hands free from would-be tacklers. Strong kick of the football, ferocious tackle, looking forward to seeing more of him as the year pans out.”

Did they use a first rounder for him? Are you suggesting the AFC used a first rounder on a smokey?

 

[Elite Crow]

Did they use a first rounder for him? Are you suggesting the AFC used a first rounder on a smokey?

You should ask Wayne why he didn't have Tom in his sig?

 

[hendo8888]

Nah, I'm not going to play that game.

If your position is that there is no list related moves within the realms of possibility that enable us to acquire an earlier draft asset, so be it. I don't accept that position.

I'd suggest there were a variety of possibilities that were discussed. We've heard the rumour that we made a strong play for Schache from Brisbane, we made a play for Parker, likely Neale.
Sure, we could have offered up a David Mackay to upgrade that pick, but he'd be worth 2c to the dollar at the moment, so wouldn't have earnt a thing. Wright, VB, Otten, Shaw would be worth nothing on the trade market. We could have shopped Lyons, Grigg, CEY, but realistically, are they going to upgrade a first round pick?
We could have traded 13 for 2 second round picks and either not upgraded Kelly or delisted someone. Problem with that being that Brisbane and GWS were pooling those picks for academy points, so that seems unlikely to happen, unless we make a point deficit in the trade. Brisbane had earned their points, so wouldn't have an incentive to do that, and trading with GWS would have been counter-productive, as they then have more points to match Himmelberg.
I just think, considering we recruited 4 players, there's only so much you can do with the assets you have.
We could have traded one up, one down, but we'd need to find a taker, and that suggests that we would take someone other than Milera given a higher pick, which may not have been the case. Which would then give the same outcome.
We could have just picked Himmelberg at 9, and ran the gauntlet on Milera, but you'd have to assume Richmond take him. Then we end up with Himmelberg and Doedee, which you'd find a lot more anger around these parts than you have now.
Trade week was also weeks ago, at that time we were a possibility at the likes of McKay or AhChee, even Francis. You can only plan for so much. It's not like we can just go to a GCS and say 'give us pick 6, we want it', then a deal just sort of happens. We have to make it worthwhile to make it happen. Which adds to the equation of Himmelberg vs Doedee. Which I don't think there's that substantial a gap between the 2.

 

[SydCrow]

Just had a quick read of that. He makes Paige Cardona sound like a pessimist.

Edit: It is Paige Cardona! Explains a lot.

Every pick is a steal.

 

[King Elvis]

You know we haven't already when the kid hasn't even set foot in the joint??
King Nostradamus?

Bicks, do you not thing that with more skilled operators, both during trade week and draft time, we could've had a better outcome?

 

[King Elvis]

Oh, and this entire points system is completely ****ed - the AFL pays lip service to 'equalization' via finances, then completely rigs the comp with the fixture and this bullshit.

Get rid of academies and points and all of the other crap.

 

[Scorpus]

Oh, and this entire points system is completely stuffed - the AFL pays lip service to 'equalization' via finances, then completely rigs the comp with the fixture and this bullshit.

Get rid of academies and points and all of the other crap.

The points system in principle is fine, they just need to give late picks a much lower points rating so clubs can't stockpile rubbish picks and then grab top 5 talent

 

[TheVelourFog]

Going by his highlights he looks like he makes good decisions and is very athletic with great agility. Does need to do some work on his kicking but the good thing about being so raw is that it should be easier to iron out some flaws in technique.

 

[Hank93]

I don't know why i keep clicking and reading this thread.

 

[mattymac]

And predicting when a kid will debut? Ha. If you said to me in early 2014 that Charlie Cameron would debut by mid year against Collingwood and tear it up I would've scoffed. By the same token many of us thought that Riley O'Brien would have almost certainly at least debuted at some stage in 2015 but didn't.

Yep, I keep thinking Charlie Cameron too. Kid new to the game that showed rapid improvement and had chronic upside. We saw something in him. Maybe the same people have identified the same here. Credits in the bank and all that. Shallow draft and all that. Let's wait and see.

I also like that I bet Wells thought he'd snaffle him and probably be proclaimed a genius.

 

[TiAn_]

As much as I was frothing over coming in here after 57(!) pages and just writing "Christian Howard Mk II", it does sound like he has a bit of Dale Morris & Easton Wood about him, stylistically. They both didn't hit their straps until 23 and 25, but I'd give up pick 17 for either of them in hindsight.

Of course with the less sexy picks you'd rather grab them later on like we did, but if you get a very good player you're happy to get him at 7 or 70.

Wood was drafted in 2007 and didn't do a great deal until suddenly becoming an AA in 2015. No one is a success or a bust on draft night.

 

[spenze]

Oh, and this entire points system is completely stuffed - the AFL pays lip service to 'equalization' via finances, then completely rigs the comp with the fixture and this bullshit.

Get rid of academies and points and all of the other crap.

and bring back the bump

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

The scary part is that is not his hand twisting his balls!!

Mick jagger likes this

 

[huludicidal]

These questions need to be asked of the club.

I didn't see the draft, what did Pyke do?

So whenever a bid was put in for an academy player, the academy team had 2 minutes to respond by either matching the bid or passing. As soon as we put the bid in, Pyke was standing up and walking towards the stage to read out Himmelberg's name. Roughly 60 seconds later he sheepishly returned to the table. Commentators had a laugh about it. I didn't.

 

[Redleg Crow]

Every pick is a steal.

Her lack of mention of Rioli speaks volumes, given how much she over-praises everyone else

 

[Mego Red]

Id give you Crouch but Levers trade down didn't work, we risked him and missed out on the player we risked him for

You've been running for this for a while and it is as stupid now as it's always been.

We wanted Lever, and got him AND a pick upgrade for the pick we would have used on him. That's tremendous work. We took a risk AND IT WORKED.

We got an all Australia SA outside mid, who wouldn't have been there for us otherwise.

An absolute master stroke, no matter what the Chicken Little crowd say.

 

[Draft Bored]

Himmelberg is a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

Something hilarious just occurred to me, as it would cut this thread in half. Although I'm still about 10 pages behind so else may have already mentioned it.

For all of you think we should have upgraded 9 by trading 13 and getting a lower pick to use on Doedee... According Campbell's Chunky this is exactly what we tried to do. We apparently offered Brisbane 9 and 13 for pick 2 and a later pick (not sure how much later), but Brisbane said no. We could have made an offer to another club, but we don't know when brisbane gave us their answer and it may have been too late for us to do anything else. Or we Just didn't rate anyone else from the top 10 that much higher than Milera, that it was worth risking it, or no other club wanted to trade either.

 

[Mego Red]

We didn't act to maximize our returns, if we did very well, when we could've done great, then it's accepting mediocrity.

Honestly, this is clearly a foolish post.

Do you really think we were trading to position ourselves for the ideal spot for Tom Doedee?

We had a pick at 13 and we were going to get best available. We no doubt had others on our list who were taken before we picked, so we went with next best, who was Doedee.

We wanted to maximize the potential for a great player. Unlike when we had a single target in Lever, we wanted to take one pick of best available from our list.

 

[Scorpus]

Something hilarious just occurred to me, as it would cut this thread in half. Although I'm still about 10 pages behind so else may have already mentioned it.

For all of you think we should have upgraded 9 by trading 13 and getting a lower pick to use on Doedee... According Campbell's Chunky this is exactly what we tried to do. We apparently offered Brisbane 9 and 13 for pick 2 and a later pick (not sure how much later), but Brisbane said no. We could have made an offer to another club, but we don't know when brisbane gave us their answer and it may have been too late for us to do anything else. Or we Just didn't rate anyone else from the top 10 that much higher than Milera, that it was worth risking it, or no other club wanted to trade either.

9 and 13 was never getting us Pick 2, when Pick 2 was Schache.

We might have tried, but it just wasn't going to happen

 

[Mego Red]

I've said it before and I'll say it again - if we wanted Himmelberg (we obviously did), it was utterly negligent IMO to not bid on Matt Kennedy with our first pick, regardless of whether we rated Milera higher than him or not. It was universally known that GWS would match any bids from 3 onwards on both Hopper and Kennedy and we had an opportunity to make them match pick 11 for Kennedy, which was already a better result for GWS than many predicted.

Allowing Kennedy to slip through to Pick 13 meant GWS gave up less for him, meaning they had more available with which to match our subsequent Himmelberg bid than they otherwise would have. It was widely thought that GWS would not match a bid of around pick 16 for Himmelberg (if you watched the telecast you'll already know that Don Pyke certainly didn't think they were going to match), but they were able to do so because Kennedy unexpectedly fell to 13 (and Hopper also went lower than expected), so matching 16 was only on par with what a bid in the 20s would have cost them if the other two went higher.

Would bidding on Kennedy at 11 have made enough of a difference to price GWS out of matching for Himmelberg? We don't know and we never will. We were definitely also hurt by both of Melbourne and Essendon inexplicably not bidding on Hopper despite him CLEARLY being a top 5 talent in this draft, so maybe the difference between Kennedy going at 11 vs 13 wouldn't have been enough to price them out of matching Himmelberg. I just think it was ridiculous to not maximise our chances of Himmelberg, because it was pretty bloody blatant that Carlton and Richmond were going to take Curnow and Rioli in between our picks once we selected Milera, so Himmelberg was obviously next cab off the rank for us.

Oh well, what's done is done. Will be very interesting to follow the careers of Milera, Kennedy, Himmelberg, Doedee, Burton and a few others that we were known to be in heavy discussions with such as Tucker, Balic, Dunkley, Collins and even Curnow who we could have snapped up at 11 if we desired (would Milera have slipped past Carlton and Richmond to our second if we did go with Curnow? 50/50 at best but possible). Perhaps our choices will prove to be inspired. Perhaps they won't. Strap me in a time machine and I'll let you know.

We wanted Milera more than Kennedy.

What if GWS DIDN'T match?

"Oh, but they would have!"

Maybe. Probably. But the point of bidding is to find the appropriate value for each player.

We wanted Milera more than Kennedy, and didn't want to risk anything by making foolish, not legitimate draft selections.

 

[Elite Crow]

You've been running for this for a while and it is as stupid now as it's always been.

We wanted Lever, and got him AND a pick upgrade for the pick we would have used on him. That's tremendous work. We took a risk AND IT WORKED.

We got an all Australia SA outside mid, who wouldn't have been there for us otherwise.

An absolute master stroke, no matter what the Chicken Little crowd say.

For a stupid position, you have a hell of a difficulty trying to counter it.

The club didn't risk Lever to get Wigg, he was not their target. It didn't work no matter how many times you say it did. Thankfully we didn't lose Lever due to the risk.

I also bet had we missed out on a Lever, you would have supported the club . Must be great not having to think for yourself. Has the club told you what to eat for breakfast?

 

[Mego Red]

The points system in principle is fine, they just need to give late picks a much lower points rating so clubs can't stockpile rubbish picks and then grab top 5 talent

Agreed.

This is actually worse.

Academy clubs get early picks; clubs trade for them so they pick above clubs like us in mid first round; academy players get picked, so those clubs get BACK into first round anyway. All it does is push back the late first robs selections.

 

[Elite Crow]

Honestly, this is clearly a foolish post.

Do you really think we were trading to position ourselves for the ideal spot for Tom Doedee?

We had a pick at 13 and we were going to get best available. We no doubt had others on our list who were taken before we picked, so we went with next best, who was Doedee.

We wanted to maximize the potential for a great player. Unlike when we had a single target in Lever, we wanted to take one pick of best available from our list.

Slipped up with this one. We didn't have a single target in Lever. Campbell's Chunky said after the draft we didn't expect Lever to be available at our pick. So by going from 10-14 we increased the chance that he wouldn't have got to us. We got lucky.