Bill Shorten - how long?

[Power Raid]

Yes we all know and understand the demographics re smoking.
One thing we learnt though is that criminal abuse of stats by Big Tobacco was replaced by a legalised abuse of stats by Govt and Lobbyists.
Over recent years our budgetary position would look a whole lot worse without the puffers amongst us...the critical tipping point where there becomes a drop in excise receipts is the only number any got is truly interested in.
Once left isolated, and without lobby groups tobacco has fallen prey to to the tax vultures and all it would take is a similar statistical "effort" to triple the alcohol take. It is still debatable which leads to more social/health problems, but i dont think i;m robinson crusoe thinking it would likely be alcohol by a country mile. Some things are easy and some are just to risky for pollies.

Whilst i dont have much sympathy, the stigma and associated abuse by govts and oppositions is now way overboard.

You would hope showbag put a little effort into figuring out he'd only be cutting his own throat...sometimes i wonder with their thought bubbles though.

What some people claim to be "passive" smoking is now a joke...you;d swear some people think they'll drop dead just being nearby...actors and actresses.
Lets face it, the princess that might complain about simply getting a whiff of a blokes ciggie wouldnt hesitate to borrow your credit card if offered, then happily shop till they drop up and down George St City sucking up all sorts of toxic fumes and exhausts all day long without a hint of a complaint. I wouldnt be abusing this particular excise gravy train...good chance that smokers arnt just paying their own way these days, but subsidiing some of the rest of us. This might be a good thing but no point abusing it...afterall its just another legal vice some people enjoy. Gave up long ago but i refuse to be anal about it.

Some good points.

The problem of ciggies is as highlighted health, the health of their kids (many are dumb enough to expose their kids), passive smoking (effecting others) and probably the biggest one which is isolation and lost opportunity.

I wouldn't know many bosses who would hire a smoker. Its not the lost time but the horrendous smell in the office as the person comes back in and engages with other staff and or clients. In the case of mining, the added issue of bush fire.

Despite all of that the tax on ciggies has been done to death and the packaging laws has been designed to stop the "fashion" aspect tailored for kids.


Personally, I would like to see a doubling of taxes on alcohol. Alcohol is, as mentioned, far more dangerous and should be considered a sometimes treat rather than part of a lifestyle. As such any big tax increase "should" in fact be pretty minor to the scheme of things for most people.

That said, I would want careful analysis before implementation as people need a vice and you don't want alcohol substituted for something worse.


oh and I long for the electric car, as exhaust fumes are horrendous. Of course we would have to stop and think about what generates that electricity as swapping petrol for more coal isn't a net advantage.

 

[Lebbo73]

Personally, I would like to see a doubling of taxes on alcohol. Alcohol is, as mentioned, far more dangerous and should be considered a sometimes treat rather than part of a lifestyle. As such any big tax increase "should" in fact be pretty minor to the scheme of things for most people.

You know where you can shove this idea, Power Raid.

 

[Power Raid]

You know where you can shove this idea, Power Raid.

in a glass over ice?

 

[Puddy]

Using taxation to change a behaviour simply does not work

 

[genericusername]

https://www.laborherald.com.au/envi...horten-labor-government-net-emissions-target/

Absolutely thrilled by this policy.

 

[CbayT]

https://www.laborherald.com.au/envi...horten-labor-government-net-emissions-target/

Absolutely thrilled by this policy.

Typical gillard/rudd play though announce it with no idea how to get there and no funding just more hot air he has to stop this if he wants to get the alp into govt. He cant just say another 400% tax on ciggies which is his one and only revenue promise.

To get to those level of reduction, nuclear more hydros and some more gas fired stations will have to be introduced and he will have to pay out coal generators. You really think Billy has a plan?

 

[HollyZholm]

Using taxation to change a behaviour simply does not work

$40 for a pack of ciggies. $280 a week. Most of those who smoke ciggies probably don't even earn $280 a week. I think Bill looked at Maslow's hierarchy of needs and thought once they are finished eating, they will won't be able to afford ciggies, and as a consequence will be better off. The only thing with this is, Bill is at 15% and these measures will hit mostly Labor voters, regardless of the good intentions.

 

[Power Raid]

$40 for a pack of ciggies. $280 a week. Most of those who smoke ciggies probably don't even earn $280 a week. I think Bill looked at Maslow's hierarchy of needs and thought once they are finished eating, they will won't be able to afford ciggies, and as a consequence will be better off. The only thing with this is, Bill is at 15% and these measures will hit mostly Labor voters, regardless of the good intentions.

and promote "chop chop"

 

[AM]

and promote "chop chop"

Know someone who lives in the Wangaratta area well known for chop-chop when smokes were much cheaper. The Cops in that area got all over the local illegal growers to the point there are few around nowadays. Good Police enforcement and the illegal growers felt so much pain the money wasn't worth it.

Anyway, to hint that lifting the price of tobacco is a bad thing is disgraceful. Perhaps you might like to wander around the wards at Peter Mac when you are in Melbourne sometime.

 

[Lebbo73]

Know someone who lives in the Wangaratta area well known for chop-chop when smokes were much cheaper. The Cops in that area got all over the local illegal growers to the point there are few around nowadays. Good Police enforcement and the illegal growers felt so much pain the money wasn't worth it.

Anyway, to hint that lifting the price of tobacco is a bad thing is disgraceful. Perhaps you might like to wander around the wards at Peter Mac when you are in Melbourne sometime.

Surely you are joking with that last paragraph!

 

[TropperFarquhar]

The devil is in the detail like all ALP policies. I remember when they implemented the mining tax and it's revenue was way under budget.

 

[rodney hoo]

The devil is in the detail like all ALP policies. I remember when they implemented the mining tax and it's revenue was way under budget.

It's a policy for the future of the nation to set us on the correct path, unlike liberal policies only there for multinationals.

 

[Power Raid]

It's a policy for the future of the nation to set us on the correct path, unlike liberal policies only there for multinationals.

you'll be conned

 

[Maggie5]

you'll be conned

Explain how.

 

[Lebbo73]

It's a policy for the future of the nation to set us on the correct path, unlike liberal policies only there for multinationals.

I haven't had a good laugh like this in ages! Do you do stand up?

 

[rodney hoo]

I haven't had a good laugh like this in ages! Do you do stand up?

I'm actually quite good at stand up but not certain your brain cells could keep up.

 

[Power Raid]

Explain how.

for a start, what's in it for the liberals to support multinationals?

labor benefits from the centralisation of power, labor benefits from the centralisation of workers and labor benefits from keeping people on lower wages and keeping people out of work.

so the pretext to rodney's post is flawed.


then the next bit which is the "cost" of the policy. SA is a basket case because of popular but failed energy policy that has seen industry die. I went to see a retail shopping chain today to open a national franchise. When enquiring about SA, they said don't bother........its dead.

So let's not even consider the $s of the policy.....just focus on the cost in terms of "no hope", "misery" and despair................and who feels that? our poorest, our most vulnerable and our youth! when will we have an electorate that considers our most needy? it is horrible that so many vote for policies that hurt those they seek to protect.

 

[Maggie5]

for a start, what's in it for the liberals to support multinationals?

labor benefits from the centralisation of power, labor benefits from the centralisation of workers and labor benefits from keeping people on lower wages and keeping people out of work.

so the pretext to rodney's post is flawed.


then the next bit which is the "cost" of the policy. SA is a basket case because of popular but failed energy policy that has seen industry die. I went to see a retail shopping chain today to open a national franchise. When enquiring about SA, they said don't bother........its dead.

So let's not even consider the $s of the policy.....just focus on the cost in terms of "no hope", "misery" and despair................and who feels that? our poorest, our most vulnerable and our youth! when will we have an electorate that considers our most needy? it is horrible that so many vote for policies that hurt those they seek to protect.

Just stopped after yor opening sentence. You can't be serious in not knowing the answer to that question.

Lateline has been interesting the last two nights, did you watch it? If not suggest you do.

 

[Ripper]

Just stopped after yor opening sentence. You can't be serious in not knowing the answer to that question.

He is right, the left focus on Big Businees , Big Unions and Big Government , ignoring Small to medium business that generates most of the Jobs.

In other words it is crony Capitalism, that Malware approves of by sacking the best Minister for small business we have had for eons.

They don't care about the workers , they used to call them sheep when I was a shop steward.

 

[Power Raid]

Just stopped after yor opening sentence. You can't be serious in not knowing the answer to that question.

Lateline has been interesting the last two nights, did you watch it? If not suggest you do.

Don't like your belief system challenged?

Think about it.

Liberal and labor politicians are the same quality (poor). But one wants a thriving economy and people to aspire. The other wants a big government and wants big business to centralise workers so they can control the people, control the economy and take kick backs for their "benevolence".

You will see the same political party that loves multi nations all over key infrastructure like our ports and our cbd construction. The infrastructure enables to centralisation they need to do their dirty work.

 

[Maggie5]

He is right, the left focus on Big Businees , Big Unions and Big Government , ignoring Small to medium business that generates most of the Jobs.

In other words it is crony Capitalism, that Malware approves of by sacking the best Minister for small business we have had for eons.

They don't care about the workers , they used to call them sheep when I was a shop steward.

Seems to me you just described LNP.

Don't like you belief system challenged?

Think about it.

Liberal and labor politicians are the same quality (poor). But one wants a thriving economy and people to aspire. The other wants a big government and wants big business to centralise workers so they can control the people, control the economy and take kick backs for their "benevolence".

You will see the same political party that loves multi nations all over key infrastructure like our ports and our cbd construction. The infrastructure enables to centralisation they need to do their dirty work.

No perhaps you should think about it a bit more although I do agree that both seem to be of similar quality but there is still absolutely no evidence of your claim. Seems to me that Labor started the cutbacks in government and that the Libs just continued, I don't know where you get the big government idea. Seems a bit outdated I think. Glad you didn't miss another 'kick' against unions, so predictable.
Have you watched Lateline yet?

 

[Todman]

Seems to me you just described LNP.


No perhaps you should think about it a bit more although I do agree that both seem to be of similar quality but there is still absolutely no evidence of your claim. Seems to me that Labor started the cutbacks in government and that the Libs just continued, I don't know where you get the big government idea. Seems a bit outdated I think.

Please pay attention Maggie, because we can explain it to you.... but we can't understand it for you.

 

[Maggie5]

Please pay attention Maggie, because we can explain it to you.... but we can't understand it for you.

I couldn't even make you understand if I had started 20 years ago. Nice try, read a bit more maybe?

 

[smokingjacket]

Don't like you belief system challenged?

Think about it.

Liberal and labor politicians are the same quality (poor). But one wants a thriving economy and people to aspire. The other wants a big government and wants big business to centralise workers so they can control the people, control the economy and take kick backs for their "benevolence".

You will see the same political party that loves multi nations all over key infrastructure like our ports and our cbd construction. The infrastructure enables to centralisation they need to do their dirty work.

When was the last small government LNP? party platform? It's always shrink the state in the areas they don't like and increase it in areas they like. The most free market reforming parliament we've had in this country was been the Hawke-Keating government. A Third Way Labor government for those playing at home. Re kickbacks for benevolence see Sinodinis and the Liberal ICAC revelations.

On infrastructure, it's normally the Labor party that believes the government and therefore the Australian people that should own it's own key infrastructure and the Liberal Party that believes in Public/Private build and subsidised private ownership!

Get it together, you're getting increasingly wrong and fruity.

 

[Power Raid]

When was the last small government LNP? party platform? It's always shrink the state in the areas they don't like and increase it in areas they like. The most free market reforming parliament we've had in this country was been the Hawke-Keating government. A Third Way Labor government for those playing at home. Re kickbacks for benevolence see Sinodinis and the Liberal ICAC revelations.

On infrastructure, it's normally the Labor party that believes the government and therefore the Australian people that should own it's own key infrastructure and the Liberal Party that believes in Public/Private build and subsidised private ownership!

Get it together, you're getting increasingly wrong and fruity.

You're right re Keating.....probably the most important politician this nation has had.

You're also right re ICAC.

It doesn't change the fact that labor is built on a the notion of the need to control people and they achieve that by being pro big business which consolidates workers. That way unions can do there stuff!

I have never had to build fences and hire guards from liberal thugs but I have had to to protect them from labor.

Who would vote for centralising power, controlling workers and worse intimidation and violence? Who would vote for lower wages, higher unemployment and lower productivity which increases the cost of living?



Oh and who would vote for 100% risk when you could have a 40% risk free return and deploy 100% of the capital to better uses? This is 101 type issue that labor voters simply can't grasp nor the true cost of big government.