Turkey shoots down Russian Jet.

[Zidane98]

Hey f wit

stop this crap. Stop this absolute crap. Cheap fake crap. Enough is enough

If you would be so kind to explain your post?

 

[awaremind]

If you would be so kind to explain your post?

Could be to do with the bu11SH1T Turkish(Nato) exceptionalism you would have to accept to see the act or their buffer zone as reasonable.

 

[rowie343]

So who

If you would be so kind to explain your post?

just stop your s**t. Enough is enough.

 

[rowie343]

I suggest that anyone who wants to add credibility to their argument supporting Russia refrain from quoting global research. It is owned by a RT employee and is unashamedly a Russian propaganda publication.

I suggest that you not suggest the source of infors anyone chooses to quote from. Especially if it's not a source of information yet to be approved by your Ministry of Information.

 

[FPPF]

I say good on Turkey for finally showing some teeth to this warmongering lunatic.
While the West is only interested in "showing their stick" against some ill equipped, no hope losers, they've been quite tolerant in dealing with Putin's increasingly violent rethoric. He must've atarted to think that he could basically waltz into any country with his military without as much as a protest from the West. He will be thinking twice before he crosses into Turkish airspace again. That much is certain.

And this ladies.and gentleman is why we end up with the idiotic leaders leading our country.

Wow.

 

[FPPF]

I heard it all now. Surely you wouldn't be so stupid to think that it wasn't Russians who shot MH17 down? That's so disrespectful to the victims.

Prove it.
Prove Russia shot down MH17.
Don't post or repost or copy paste anything that any media source has to say.
I want to see you, and that other clueless troll prove Russia did it.

Not Russian weapons in rebels hands.
But Russia. Because that's what both of you are now saying. That it was Russia.

So prove it.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

It is as clear as can possibly be. Are any of you pro NATO clowns capable of seeing through the crap?

It is skeptical wether or not they violated air space, they are an Air Force that is supposedly fighting a 'shared' vicious enemy to the world, they are no threat to you whatsoever. Open your eyes. Everything has been exposed unless you refuse to see.

tell you what i'll go put the kettle on, tag me when you've got actual proof of whatever theory you have.
if you think i in anyway support the turks you should read my comments in regards to the nutter in charge of turkey.

No sane person can say this matter is clear, turkey is claiming the jet violated their airspace, russia has denied it. it's as clear as mud, both sides are going to produce "evidence" that backs up their claims. You want to shill for one side or the other be my guest but don't pretend you have any insight beyond jerking off to the great bear on regular basis.

 

[FPPF]

You know those guys who were shooting at the parachuting Russian pilot?.....well they are no longer on this mortal plane ....and the Turkish Airforce?...well, they are no longer in the sky above their 'buffer zone':

http://www.globalresearch.ca/russia...-turkish-air-force-planes-be-grounded/5491436
Parent source (translation):
http://southfront.org/vks-russian-f...-that-air-force-planes-of-turkey-be-grounded/


Note: I can't find another independent source for this info at this stage...if it is not verified tonight (our time) I'll remove the post.

Late edit: This is verification of sorts....what were the Turks thinking?????

http://eaworldview.com/2015/11/syria-daily-russia-hits-back-with-bombing-of-turkish-aid-trucks/

Terrorist sympathizers and collaborators supplying terrorist groups in Syria got smashed.

About bloody time.

Well done Russia and Putin on doing what our own governments haven't been doing for over a year.

 

[FPPF]

In other words, you don't have the supportive argument. No offence taken I understand.

Military incursions into Ukraine and Georgia are a clear indication of a Tsar-like Russia ambitions.

Tell me, were you as outraged about the downing of MH70 as ypu are about this?

Tsar like Russia? Lmfao. Amp it up some more champ.
Why not paint Putin as the anti Christ? Why stop at tsar..


Georgia provoked Russia by attacking it's Peace keepers in the breakaway republics.
It was instigated by the CIA.

Ukraine had its government over thrown by a "color revolution", more CIA instigated fun times. Provoking Russia by attacking it's interests in Crimea and eastern Ukraine.

Don't let the facts get in the way though.


It's amazing how ******* dumb westerners are...Australians in particular.

We've been allied to a country that has spread it's military tentacles across the entire planet when there's been absolutely no nation that poses a significant threat since the collapse of the USSR and Warsaw pact.
We've seen the USA expand its military and spending on it to unheard of proportions.
We've seen the USA invade countries illegally, bomb others illegally.
We've seen the USA support arm train and fund terrorist groups.

That's all fine and dandy.

But when one country that's been pushed around starts fighting back to protect its interests then that country is the problem?

What the hell is wrong with some of you?


Russia is doing what it's doing because of OUR side. Because OUR side has pushed them and pushed them and pushed them.

Because when the USSR collapsed instead of trying to build a better world our side, lead by the Americans encircled Russia with military bases that are on Russias border. Our side expanded NATO up to Russias border when there was no threat from Russia.

This Is how the world works obviously. We weren't going to step back and they wouldn't have either if our side collapsed instead of them.

But God give me strength do we really have people who are this freaking brainwashed and clueless and unable to think for them selves?


Seriously ill pay your fines for not voting if you never vote again in your life time. That goes for worldcupoz as well.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Quite disturbing that some on this forum are more outraged about the shooting down of a fighter jet in enemy airspace that had been verbally told to divert away than a commercial airliner being shot down on its approved flight plan by Russian backed forces.

It's not the incidents themselves which stir people's interests, but the wider political implications of each incident. My stance is that the United States got too comfortable in its role as sole hyperpower. There needs to be a multipolar world, one where many powers keep each other in check rather than one power doing as it pleases.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

On a side note Russia resupplies Syria a few different ways - one of which is the so-called 'Syrian Express' through the Bosphorus Straight, which connects the Black Sea to the Mediterranean via a busy shipping channel.

http://www.ibtimes.com/how-1936-montreux-convention-would-help-russia-ukraine-war-1582507

...These waters constitute one of the world’s most important strategic areas, and for Russia they also provide an open door to operate with impunity in some of the world’s major conflicts, including the Syrian civil war.

Collectively called the Turkish Straits, the Bosphorus and Dardanelles channels have been fought over for centuries. Today, the passage of ships through these waters is regulated by a 1936 multinational treaty, the Montreux Convention, that gives Turkey control of the straits. The treaty also guarantees Russia a major strategic advantage in any war involving Ukraine, because it limits the access of warships from non-Black Sea nations. That would keep out a lot of hostile naval forces.

Signed by Turkey, the Soviet Union, Britain and others in 1936, the treaty allows Russia and other Black Sea states to move warships through the Turkish Straits to the Mediterranean Sea with few restrictions.

The convention also restricts outside navies’ access to the Turkish Straits and Black Sea to 21 straight days per warship, and a maximum aggregate tonnage of 45,000 tons, with any one vessel no heavier than 15,000 tons. Non-Black Sea states must also give Turkey a 15-day notice before sending warships through the straits. As for civilian vessels of any flag, their peacetime access is free and unlimited, “with any kind of cargo,” as stated in Article 2 of the treaty.

Russia has taken full advantage of this clause, which guarantees it access to the eastern Mediterranean and has proved vital to the survival of the Syrian government in Damascus. According to an investigation published last year, murky elements with ties to senior Russian government officials have been shipping weapons from Odessa in Ukraine to the Syrian government (and several others) through the Straits for at least two years.

Turkey has done little to stop this type of traffic. As custodian of the straits, Turkey is keen to maintain the status quo under the convention. Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu recently said that “the Montreux Convention is important to maintain stability around the Black Sea and vital for the security of Istanbul and the Bosphorus.” That’s holding true even as ties between Ankara and Moscow are strained by opposing views regarding the ongoing Syria conflict, and Turkey’s growing concern for the fate of ethnic Tatars in Russian-controlled Crimea.

“Turkey is the key country for Montreux. This is without question. But Russia is clearly a very important power player, and historically has always been,” said Nulifer Oral, an international maritime law expert at Istanbul Bilgi University.

The Black Sea’s importance to Russia has been on clear display during the recent Crimean crisis. When Crimea voted to secede from Ukraine and join Russia in March, Moscow declared the Kharkiv Pact, an agreement that gave it the lease of naval facilities in Crimea’s Sevastopol port until 2042, void. That handed the base outright to Russia, which promptly announced it would spend $2.4 billion to expand its Sevastopol-based Black Sea Fleet. That would greatly increase its regional power.

In an actual war over Ukraine, warships belonging to “belligerent powers” would be banned from the Straits in accordance with the convention. But many of Russia’s warships would already be there, unlike U.S. and NATO ships. Aircraft carriers of any flag are banned outright from the Turkish Straits, in both times of peace and war...

I wonder if Turkey's current President Recep Erdogan will pull any shenanigans like trying to close the straits to Russia? Could he make a case to the U.N about the war in Syria citing 'humanitarian concerns' even as he adds to the misery and woe by resupplying Islamist rebels? Can the U.N declare international treaties null and void?

 

[FPPF]

On a side note Russia resupplies Syria a few different ways - one of which is the so-called 'Syrian Express' through the Bosphorus Straight, which connects the Black Sea to the Mediterranean via a busy shipping channel.



I wonder if Turkey's current President Recep Erdogan will pull any shenanigans like trying to close the straits to Russia? Could he make a case to the U.N about the war in Syria citing 'humanitarian concerns' even as he adds to the misery and woe by resupplying Islamist rebels? Can the U.N declare international treaties null and void?

If the UNSC passes a resolution calling on members to not supply arms in the conflict then yes.
Won't happen because Russia will use its veto.

But they can't close international shipping lanes because they feel like it. It would be a.violation of the law the sea conventions. Even naval ships have right of innocent passage. Russia has a base in Syria. Russia also has regular exercises in the Mediterranean these days. There's a variety of ways Russia could over come this.

Russia could start using merchant vessels. What are they going to do then?
Say one in every 20 vessels has some supplies. Are they going to stop every merchant ship? They can't.

A lot of what Russia is supplying to Syria is part of existing weapon orders/contracts that weren't related to the war.

Russia could also send ships from its northern bases all the way around Europe. Will take longer obviously, but blocking the straits obviously won't prevent Russia supplying weapons to Assad.

And if such a blockade jeopardized Russian forces in Syria I think Turkey will find the bombing of its terrorist resupply conveys as a good outcome compared to what Russia will do then.

Blocking Russia from passing through the straits into the Med. Sea is part of what the mess in Ukraine was about. That was one of the goals of bringing down Ukraine. They didn't expect Russia to deploy it's troops from Sevastopol to protect their interests in Crimea, namely their military base.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Russia could start using merchant vessels. What are they going to do then?

This is already happening.

https://informnapalm.org/en/syrian-...ian-ferry-transfers-military-cargo-to-tartus/

Ironically, it bought alot of the bulk carriers used for the 'Syrian Express' in Turkey!

http://rushincrash.com/forces/army-...t-in-turkey-for-bulk-carriers-syrian-express/

 

[jumpinjimmy]

It's not the incidents themselves which stir people's interests, but the wider political implications of each incident. My stance is that the United States got too comfortable in its role as sole hyperpower. There needs to be a multipolar world, one where many powers keep each other in check rather than one power doing as it pleases.

The thing is GS is that the geopolitical stratagems have not come 'out of a blue sky'. It is stated policy by the US and it's non-elected political/military advisers and collective think-tanks. The troubling aspect is the amount of outwardly sentient human beings (at least they a pulse and can type and mouth words) who see but don't register these stated facts. Then of course if you have the temerity to put forward a preposition that is unproven but which fits the facts on the ground and is in-line with stated policy they carry on like screaming banshees....

 

[jumpinjimmy]

I suggest that anyone who wants to add credibility to their argument supporting Russia refrain from quoting global research. It is owned by a RT employee and is unashamedly a Russian propaganda publication.

So the comments in the article were inaccurate???? I mean to say I could turn your logic back on you by stating readers should arbitrarily discount your posts on the basis that they are inherently illogical......

 

[jumpinjimmy]

I heard it all now. Surely you wouldn't be so stupid to think that it wasn't Russians who shot MH17 down? That's so disrespectful to the victims.

This discussion is for another thread....and I won't be intellectually corralled by emotional blackmail....so a massive 'fail' all round I would suggest.

 

[QuietB]

I suggest that anyone who wants to add credibility to their argument supporting Russia refrain from quoting global research. It is owned by a RT employee and is unashamedly a Russian propaganda publication.

Can you give us a definitive list of trustworthy news sources for future reference please. Cheers

 

[jumpinjimmy]

Can you give us a definitive list of trustworthy news sources for future reference please. Cheers

Maybe we could also attach the label of 'Daesh supporter' to these anti-Putin posters......it's just a logical extension of their approach is it not..

 

[Lebbo73]

Can you give us a definitive list of trustworthy news sources for future reference please. Cheers

NBC, FOX, CNN, etc

 

[jumpinjimmy]

that point is not clear at all, the only people supporting that position is Russia. Are any of you Pro everything Russian clowns capable of telling the truth?

the fact is we don't know, So far turkey has claimed a brief incursion took place and predictably NATO has started to back its allies position.
Whilst Russia disputes ever entering Turkish airspace that's it, nothing is clear, nothing has been "exposed"

You are not following your own dictum..the second paragraph does not absolve you of the hypocrisy in the first.

 

[LeoMessi]

This discussion is for another thread....and I won't be intellectually corralled by emotional blackmail....so a massive 'fail' all round I would suggest.

I'd love to know what are your reasons for your thoughts as such and this beyond ridiculous solidarity with the Russian dictator. It might have something to do with your background or not, but the facts are all pointing to the Russians for the downing of MH17.

- It was done in deep territory controlled by Russian-backed separatists.
- There was clear evidence showing that the separatists claiming responsibility for MH17 thinking that it was an UKR military plane in the initial stages. They only shut themselves up when they realized it was in fact a commercial airliner.
- If there was nothing to hide, then why did the separatists (with instructions from Putin himself) impede the investigations on site?

But hey, Putin came out publicly and said Russia aren't responsible so it must be true despite the overwhelming evidence.

 

[jumpinjimmy]

I'd love to know what are your reasons for your thoughts as such and this beyond ridiculous solidarity with the Russian dictator. It might have something to do with your background or not, but the facts are all pointing to the Russians for the downing of MH17.

- It was done in deep territory controlled by Russian-backed separatists.
- There was clear evidence showing that the separatists claiming responsibility for MH17 thinking that it was an UKR military plane in the initial stages. They only shut themselves up when they realized it was in fact a commercial airliner.
- If there was nothing to hide, then why did the separatists (with instructions from Putin himself) impede the investigations on site?

But hey, Putin came out publicly and said Russia aren't responsible so it must be true despite the overwhelming evidence.

Leo, I'll just give you a heads-up...if I ignore your posts on any topic don't take it as tacit confirmation that you have proven your point....I have returned to the site after a long hiatus to primarily speak to posters I respect......and that is not necessarily a 'slight' on you or others I ignore.

 

[Lebbo73]

I'd love to know what are your reasons for your thoughts as such and this beyond ridiculous solidarity with the Russian dictator. It might have something to do with your background or not, but the facts are all pointing to the Russians for the downing of MH17.

- It was done in deep territory controlled by Russian-backed separatists.
- There was clear evidence showing that the separatists claiming responsibility for MH17 thinking that it was an UKR military plane in the initial stages. They only shut themselves up when they realized it was in fact a commercial airliner.
- If there was nothing to hide, then why did the separatists (with instructions from Putin himself) impede the investigations on site?

But hey, Putin came out publicly and said Russia aren't responsible so it must be true despite the overwhelming evidence.

Was this clear evidence the video that was proven to have been made the day before MH17 was shot down?

 

[QuietB]

NBC, FOX, CNN, etc

http://www.teaparty.org/

 

[QuietB]

I just googled the teaparty for fun, but WOW

One country in Africa has discovered a highly effective way to deal with radical jihadist Muslims.

And it doesn’t involve peace talks or strongly worded letters.

No, the method that Kenya employs against Muslim terrorists is kind of old fashioned but still the best way to make a dent in the spread of jihad in their country.

Gunfire. Lots of it.

- See more at: http://www.teaparty.org/kenya-just-...-kill-christians-131650/#sthash.yy2gUycc.dpuf