Welcome to Hawthorn Pick 19: Ryan Burton

[illnino]

http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news...-making-up-for-lost-time-20151109-gkuumb.html

That article is extremely telling. Wish this kid nothing but the absolute best, he deserves a real crack at it and I'm extremely happy that my club are giving him that chance. Not since big Max Bailey, and more recently young Alex Woodward, have I wanted to see someone succeed so much as I want this kid to. Absolute best of luck mate, seriously can't wait to see you running around in the brown and gold sooner rather than later.

 

[eldorado]

He looks like a fine genetic specimen, symmetry and body shape, every inch an alpha...

He just looks like a quality footballer in a way that's impossible to quantify.


Probably relative to all that, a fine looking lad as well (not that there's anything wrong with that)

 

[threesixpio]

He looks like a fine genetic specimen, symmetry and body shape, every inch an alpha...

He just looks like a quality footballer in a way that's impossible to quantify.


Probably relative to all that, a fine looking lad as well (not that there's anything wrong with that)

Schoenmakers has competition clearly

 

[MadDawg]

He looks like he is Chris Langford's son.

 

[daniel23]

Finally decided to have a look into his Injury wow it doesn't paint a pretty picture . No doubt the clubs done there research and feel he can make an impact but wether he becomes the player he was prior to the injury is a another story he seems to have the attitude at least

 

[Gunstall555]

He is an impressive young man. Definitely an alpha. Can't help but think we have picked up an absolute future gun of the competition.

 

[Clarkos_Soldier]

I also don't rate midgits in general as midfielders. Only freaks make it as short players so you are betting against the odds every time .

I am so tired of people believing the best midfielders are giants. First of all unless a giant midfielder can surpass Gary Ablett then it's all bull dust! And no! Fyfe has not surpassed Gary Ablett and despite his brownlow I doubt he will ever be as good. On his day he is great but the Fremantle giant midfield army has not been able to win a flag and struggles to beat Hawthorn's small midfield. Here are some of the best midfielders in recent memory who are/were 183cm (6 foot) and smaller. Some of the best of all time are on the short side except for Judd who was 188cm:

Gary Ablett Jnr
Sam Mitchell
Travis Boak
Greg Williams
Brent Harvey
Michael Voss
Jason Akermanis
Shane Crawford
Joel Selwood
Scott Thompson
Paul Kelly
Andrew Gaff
Dan Hannebery
Ben Cousins
Daniel Kerr
Tony Liberatore
Scott West
Luke Ball
Robert Harvey
Luke Shuey
Adam Treloar
Dylan Shiel
Toby Greene
Stephen Coniglio

I am sure this list can expanded immensely but I can't spare the time.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

I am so tired of people believing the best midfielders are giants. First of all unless a giant midfielder can surpass Gary Ablett then it's all bull dust! And no! Fyfe has not surpassed Gary Ablett and despite his brownlow I doubt he will ever be as good. On his day he is great but the Fremantle giant midfield army has not been able to win a flag and struggles to beat Hawthorn's small midfield. Here are some of the best midfielders in recent memory who are/were 183cm (6 foot) and smaller. Some of the best of all time are on the short side except for Judd who was 188cm:

Gary Ablett Jnr
Sam Mitchell
Travis Boak
Greg Williams
Brent Harvey
Michael Voss
Jason Akermanis
Shane Crawford
Joel Selwood
Scott Thompson
Paul Kelly
Andrew Gaff
Dan Hannebery
Ben Cousins
Daniel Kerr
Tony Liberatore
Scott West
Luke Ball
Robert Harvey
Luke Shuey
Adam Treloar
Dylan Shiel
Toby Greene
Stephen Coniglio

I am sure this list can expanded immensely but I can't spare the time.

If you are referring to Lovell, you do realise he is 3 - 4 inches shorter than most of the guys you list?

Back on topic, I just get the feeling with burton if he gets fit medically, he will seriously be a super star for us.

 

[Furn2]

Interesting that Burtons leg surgery was performed by former Crows player Matthew Liptak.

 

[Brishawk]

I am so tired of people believing the best midfielders are giants. First of all unless a giant midfielder can surpass Gary Ablett then it's all bull dust! And no! Fyfe has not surpassed Gary Ablett and despite his brownlow I doubt he will ever be as good. On his day he is great but the Fremantle giant midfield army has not been able to win a flag and struggles to beat Hawthorn's small midfield. Here are some of the best midfielders in recent memory who are/were 183cm (6 foot) and smaller. Some of the best of all time are on the short side except for Judd who was 188cm:

Gary Ablett Jnr
Sam Mitchell
Travis Boak
Greg Williams
Brent Harvey
Michael Voss
Jason Akermanis
Shane Crawford
Joel Selwood
Scott Thompson
Paul Kelly
Andrew Gaff
Dan Hannebery
Ben Cousins
Daniel Kerr
Tony Liberatore
Scott West
Luke Ball
Robert Harvey
Luke Shuey
Adam Treloar
Dylan Shiel
Toby Greene
Stephen Coniglio

I am sure this list can expanded immensely but I can't spare the time.

Lovell is shorter than all of those players. Materially shorter. How about you put together a list of inside midfielders who are current players and are under 180cm. Mitchell is one but there are not many others. While Mitchell is short Lewis, hodge, Burgoyne, Langford and roughy are all 185 or larger. We don't have a short midfield. But if you think you could replace hodge, Burgoyne and Mitchell with three sub 180cm mids and remain competitive then you are delusional.

 

[StillAtLarge]

Interesting that Burtons leg surgery was performed by former Crows player Matthew Liptak.

Better liptak than blu tac

 

[cryptor]

Interesting that Burtons leg surgery was performed by former Crows player Matthew Liptak.

You wonder if the Crows didn't pick him on his advice. But then in that article from a while back he suggested to Burton that he may never run again but he tested well in the running tests at the combine.

 

[TAITA]

Interesting that Burtons leg surgery was performed by former Crows player Matthew Liptak.

Link? I read his rehab was overseen by Liptak, not his surgery.

All said and done though, we could afford to take a punt here, Adelaide couldn't after their draft suspensions.

People are reading too much into s**t that isn't there.

 

[beta_condition]

Not sure why people are so fixated on height, long as he has a strong core his height as an inside mid wont matter.

 

[bris tarangau]

There are a number of 'short' players running around in the Footscray team now that play quite well for them.

 

[Levi_Hawk]

I think arrogance was the least of Thorp's issues. There have been two players that hawthorn have cut prior to the season begining. One was Mitch Thorp

Mitch was cut at the end of the season if my memory serves me correctly.

 

[The Post Man]

You need to consider where each list is at before you understand why clubs can and can't take risks.

Clearly the Hawks list is in a very different place to the Crows and if you then consider what both clubs have achieved over the last 10 seasons, you can fully comprehend why Adelaide are not willing to take the risks that Hawthorn can.

 

[grumbleguts]

The points are a total for the match, not one total for each side. Its possible that one team can gain all the points available. If Hawthorn played the Box Hill under 10s you wouldn't expect Box Hill to get any points. IF you add Ablett to that team he scores incredibly low because he has no good team mates. Extreme example I know but we shouldn't underrate how good ablett has been, especially not based on Champion data scores. The more likely explanation for why his scores are higher is because he s asked to do more at GC than he ever did at Geelong.

Except when you factor in he turns it over 34% of the time on average and that INCLUDES his seagull 1-2 handballs. AND he gets possessions no one else gets. eg. In his first game back this season running for the line the ball was going over, he and his opponent slid towards the line, and the ball (going out anyway) is pushed off ablett's hip, and goes out. Throw in results, as does a "kick" in ablett's stats and a "contested possession". And his disposal efficiency miraculously increased. Someone at CD is a big fan and skews the data rdiculously in his favour. I don't give a rats what CD says, I realised it's all fake once I saw that unfild before my eyes.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Mitch was cut at the end of the season if my memory serves me correctly.

Yes, he was cut from Melbourne during the preseason after getting into a spot of bother that had Bailey not exactly impressed.

 

[sven_inc]

Except when you factor in he turns it over 34% of the time on average and that INCLUDES his seagull 1-2 handballs. AND he gets possessions no one else gets. eg. In his first game back this season running for the line the ball was going over, he and his opponent slid towards the line, and the ball (going out anyway) is pushed off ablett's hip, and goes out. Throw in results, as does a "kick" in ablett's stats and a "contested possession". And his disposal efficiency miraculously increased. Someone at CD is a big fan and skews the data rdiculously in his favour. I don't give a rats what CD says, I realised it's all fake once I saw that unfild before my eyes.

Very keen not to derail the thread but 100% sure its not "fake".

Its not a straightforward formula. Lots of nuance, scaling and re-scaling. They have a general tendency towards certain stats being worth a certain amount but thats fluid depending the context of the rest of the game.

A bloke getting 40disposals in a blowout might not be worth as much in the context of the game as a Cyril who get 10 touches but directly determines the outcome of a game.

Its a great system.

 

[grumbleguts]

Very keen not to derail the thread but 100% sure its not "fake".

Its not a straightforward formula. Lots of nuance, scaling and re-scaling. They have a general tendency towards certain stats being worth a certain amount but thats fluid depending the context of the rest of the game.

A bloke getting 40disposals in a blowout might not be worth as much in the context of the game as a Cyril who get 10 touches but directly determines the outcome of a game.

Its a great system.

So you think it's OK to be awarded a kick and a contested possession and an effective disposal when the ball bounces of your hip out of bounds and you never actually take possession of the ball.

 

[Prudster]

So you think it's OK to be awarded a kick and a contested possession and an effective disposal when the ball bounces of your hip out of bounds and you never actually take possession of the ball.

Why are you getting so angry? Obviously there are grey areas about what constitutes a kick and what doesn't. In this case you thought it wasn't, and they thought it was. Who really gives a s**t?

 

[sven_inc]

I wish I had of seen the incident, but regardless - do you actually think that Champion Data who do big, important business with the AFL would favour Ablett?

Supercoach is a game by another company based solely on their stats. They're the same stats and data that go straight to the AFL arent they?

There was even talk pre-draft that Champion Data were producing a program that clubs will most likely buy into that helps chronicle/rank players from every league and age level (might not be as expansive) to help give recruiting a more objective flavour.

Its all based on the same stuff.


On another note. For those whove seen Burton or have formed a strong opinion, as hes aiming to a Fyfe-like footballer in the future - does he have the attributes for it? Has the ball handling im sure but can he be prolific enough?

 

[cryptor]

Except when you factor in he turns it over 34% of the time on average and that INCLUDES his seagull 1-2 handballs. AND he gets possessions no one else gets. eg. In his first game back this season running for the line the ball was going over, he and his opponent slid towards the line, and the ball (going out anyway) is pushed off ablett's hip, and goes out. Throw in results, as does a "kick" in ablett's stats and a "contested possession". And his disposal efficiency miraculously increased. Someone at CD is a big fan and skews the data rdiculously in his favour. I don't give a rats what CD says, I realised it's all fake once I saw that unfild before my eyes.

Possible that stat was one that was missed from an earlier piece of play and only got updated during that refresh.

 

[TAITA]

People put far too much emphasis on stats, which are ultimately the sum of an outcome - not a precursor to the outcome. And boil them, fry them, bake them, coat them in batter - in the view of the statistician Cyril Rioli is a very average player and the 2015 Hawks should not have even made the GF given their average age.