Academies - What would be considered a success?

[Crawb]

We only drafted 3 academy prospects this year whilst another 5 academy players got drafted elsewhere (C. Wagner, Uebergang, J. Wagner, Smith, Chol).

Even Eddie got one. Tell me the academies are not working?

 

[nickrebellious]

We only drafted 3 academy prospects this year whilst another 5 academy players got drafted elsewhere (C. Wagner, Uebergang, J. Wagner, Smith, Chol).

Even Eddie got one. Tell me the academies are not working?

So generous, why not let Hipwood slip to another team?

 

[Crawb]

So generous, why not let Hipwood slip to another team?

Typical. Of course. We're not allowed to draft any of these prospects ourselves. No no no. We're a feeder club, we must bend down to the the Victorian clubs when they kindly ask for a player. Will give Hipwood to you 9am Monday

 

[nickrebellious]

Typical. Of course. We're not allowed to draft any of these prospects ourselves. No no no. We're a feeder club, we must bend down to the the Victorian clubs when they kindly ask for a player. Will give Hipwood to you 9am Monday

Okay just stop pretending to be generous when you scored 2 great draftees at a discount. If Brisbane rated any of those kids they would have taken them.

Also academies are working great, with all the talent you guys are getting out of it, maybe its time to get rid of the nonination and bidding and have the kids available to everyone.

 

[Colonial]

Okay just stop pretending to be generous when you scored 2 great draftees at a discount. If Brisbane rated any of those kids they would have taken them.

Also academies are working great, with all the talent you guys are getting out of it, maybe its time to get rid of the nonination and bidding and have the kids available to everyone.

Nah

Need to build up the homegrown ratio in the northern clubs.

 

[carnthemlions]

Okay just stop pretending to be generous when you scored 2 great draftees at a discount. If Brisbane rated any of those kids they would have taken them.

Also academies are working great, with all the talent you guys are getting out of it, maybe its time to get rid of the nonination and bidding and have the kids available to everyone.

Good post.

 

[Crawb]

If Brisbane rated any of those kids they would have taken them.

Also academies are working great, with all the talent you guys are getting out of it, maybe its time to get rid of the nonination and bidding and have the kids available to everyone.

???
Pretty sure we rated Wagner and were prepared to put him on our senior list if he was bid on late enough. But North bid in the 40s in the national draft and we weren't prepared to match that with our picks the way they were. Nothing to do with not rating them, but we only have so many list spots.

Then why would we bother investing *our* time, resources and money when it does not give us any benefit?

Also do you not recall Aish, Redden, Leuenberger leaving? We had plenty of extra points to use for Hipwood/Keays than we otherwise normally would have. Typical flawed logic. Run along fool.

 

[M Malice]

Okay just stop pretending to be generous when you scored 2 great draftees at a discount. If Brisbane rated any of those kids they would have taken them.

Also academies are working great, with all the talent you guys are getting out of it, maybe its time to get rid of the nonination and bidding and have the kids available to everyone.

it would be fine with me to just have the academy kids in the open draft, as long as the AFL took over the full administration, financial and development roles that the northern clubs perform at the moment, and kept the flow of elite junior athletes coming to the AFL rather than choosing either of the rugby codes or soccer, which provide massive competition to AFL up north.

 

[nickrebellious]

Nah

Need to build up the homegrown ratio in the northern clubs.

Only if their rated in the top 30 though.

???
Pretty sure we rated Wagner and were prepared to put him on our senior list if he was bid on late enough. But North bid in the 40s in the national draft and we weren't prepared to match that with our picks the way they were. Nothing to do with not rating them, but we only have so many list spots.

Then why would we bother investing *our* time, resources and money when it does not give us any benefit?

Also do you not recall Aish, Redden, Leuenberger leaving? We had plenty of extra points to use for Hipwood/Keays than we otherwise normally would have. Typical flawed logic. Run along fool.

Is *our* resources going to include part of the 1.3 million my club had to donate under the equalisation tax? Or just the rest of the money the AFL is pumping into the Northern teams?

It would give you the benefit of increasing the draft pool with more kids from your state, reducing homesickness and if another team picks them up you can get them cheaply if they get homesick.

Aww you lost players, whatever. A bunch of crap draft picks shouldn't equal 2 great draftees.

it would be fine with me to just have the academy kids in the open draft, as long as the AFL took over the full administration, financial and development roles that the northern clubs perform at the moment, and kept the flow of elite junior athletes coming to the AFL rather than choosing either of the rugby codes or soccer, which provide massive competition to AFL up north.

Well they already have the financial part covered on all but the Swans.

 

[Crawb]

It would give you the benefit of increasing the draft pool with more kids from your state, reducing homesickness and if another team picks them up you can get them cheaply if they get homesick.

Aww you lost players, whatever. A bunch of crap draft picks shouldn't equal 2 great draftees.

So you acknowledge an inherent disadvantage exists for us then because our location. Yet you want to get rid of the very thing that has been created to rectify the disadvantage? Actually judging by the first part of you clearly want no form of equalisation at all.

You're literally insane. We could no longer offer local kids a spot on the promise that they're good enough (I.e giving them something to strive for) hence we lose players to other sports. Not sure how that increases the draft pool.
And I'm not sure how completely overlooking other talent interstate for local talent is going to help either as small pieces of Queensland talent alone isn't enough for a club to build a list on and compete in the AFL, let alone two.

You're literally suggesting we should live with the inherent disadvantage and just hand over all the good players. I mean seriously pull your head of your arse.

"Whatever". Whatever? ******* solid argument. I mean the reasoning and logic behind that is astounding and shows the depth the level of your thinking has gone to in addressing the points raised by the counter argument. You'll get a Nobel Prize for that one . Actually the "you tried" sticker for a pre-schooler is more appropriate.

 

[Colonial]

Only if their rated in the top 30 though.

Well we arent going to pick the worst kids in the north to play.

Is *our* resources going to include part of the 1.3 million my club had to donate under the equalisation tax? Or just the rest of the money the AFL is pumping into the Northern teams?

The academies are inside our budgets. How ever we get our money doesnt matter.

Aww you lost players, whatever. A bunch of crap draft picks shouldn't equal 2 great draftees.

It doesnt.
Its about getting the northern clubs home grown players

Well they already have the financial part covered on all but the Swans.

Well no. It still comes out of our budgets

 

[M Malice]

Only if their rated in the top 30 though.
Is *our* resources going to include part of the 1.3 million my club had to donate under the equalisation tax? Or just the rest of the money the AFL is pumping into the Northern teams?

It would give you the benefit of increasing the draft pool with more kids from your state, reducing homesickness and if another team picks them up you can get them cheaply if they get homesick.

Aww you lost players, whatever. A bunch of crap draft picks shouldn't equal 2 great draftees.

Well they already have the financial part covered on all but the Swans.

the northern clubs have to play by the rules laid out by the AFL re. bidding, drafting for academy points, i'm sure the AFL will change the system for next year if they see fit.
admit i haven't researched the financial aspect of the academies but if the AFL is fully paying for them now why don't they just take over the running of them?
as for the equalization methods employed by the AFL if the big interstate clubs don't accept that this is good for the overall health of the game, we could just go like the big soccer leagues in europe, where every year 99 percent of the time there are only 4 or 5 sides in with any chance at all of winning a flag?

 

[Brett C]

Only if their rated in the top 30 though.
Is *our* resources going to include part of the 1.3 million my club had to donate under the equalisation tax? Or just the rest of the money the AFL is pumping into the Northern teams?

It would give you the benefit of increasing the draft pool with more kids from your state, reducing homesickness and if another team picks them up you can get them cheaply if they get homesick.

Aww you lost players, whatever. A bunch of crap draft picks shouldn't equal 2 great draftees.

Well they already have the financial part covered on all but the Swans.

Good to know Hawthorne donated that $1.3m, lucky having teams outside increases the television rights $$ and sponsorship money. Hopefully the pesky teams from QLD & NSW don't steal to much of your money.

 

[philthy05]

Yeah the talent will never grow from nsw/act

Wait what happened again this year?

you mis-understand my post.

I'm saying that while the expan teams may pull out the best players here and there , and make them better then what they would have been without that attention , I'm not convinced that skill level amongst the general grass roots to amateur / semi pro levels will rise any measurable amount even in time.

 

[philthy05]

Nah

Need to build up the homegrown ratio in the northern clubs.

This is an pro academy argument I can buy.

It allows you to get earlier development into hometown players thereby hopefully helping or fast tracking their developing , and it allows you first access to hometown players so you can have a better ratio of hometown to interstate players.

 

[RUNVS]

Another seven eight guys who've spent time in an academy drafted today (assuming I didn't miss any - William, Uebergang, Cornell, Wagner, Smith, Chol, Coughlan and Joyce), only one two of which went to their academy club.

So does anyone know how many academy guys were taken in the national and preseason draft in 2015?

 

[kreglze]

Not that it is directly related to the Academies, but the NEAFL just produced 18 players onto AFL lists which is massive for a league seen as a very poor league overall.

 

[Ichabod Noodle]

you mis-understand my post.

I'm saying that while the expan teams may pull out the best players here and there , and make them better then what they would have been without that attention , I'm not convinced that skill level amongst the general grass roots to amateur / semi pro levels will rise any measurable amount even in time.

Then you don't understand how it works do you.

You put 30/40 kids through the academy or associated programs each year. Now obviously they are not all going to make it to the draft - but they are going to be significantly improved for local leagues. And then, when they go back to their own club and head down to training on a Tuesday night, they can pass on some of what they've learned at the academy to their mates. Even when they're 22/23 they still have skills and techniques to pass on to team mates and the juniors in their club when they help coach the under 14s. The top players end up playing AFL, the rest help improve their local club. Measurable? Who cares. It's going to happen.

But then again, to see that, you have to look far into the future and embrace the possibilities. Too many anti-academy anti-Aussie-Rules-north-of-the-Murray types simply aren't interested. They don't care about growing the game outside of their own backward little states.

 

[AliceCat]

Those types that thrash the academys simple don't get it! Do you want the AFL to be a national game or not??

It's obvious that a good portion of footy followers, especially those from Victoria, need to get out a little more.

Also great seeing the progress of the NEAFL.

 

[AliceCat]

Does anyone have a break down of the state of origin for the drafts??

 

[coniglio_number1]

22 players came from the northern states.

46 I think came from Victoria

9 from wa

Unsure of Sa and tas

 

[Matchu]

The academies ARE working, and that's why people are mad. This may be a news flash for lots of people on here but more than half the Australian population lives in either NSW or QLD. Now the important part - the simple fact is that, prior to the establishment of the northern academies, the average percentage of draftees coming from NSW and QLD each year was quite low (around 10% from memory). Now we see a healthy percentage of draftees coming out of QLD and NSW. If you're a footy fan and you really care about the game, then you really shouldn't be against this. If you can't think beyond your own club then of course you'll look at this on face value and think it's a bad system but what is really happening here is that the draft pool of talented players is increasing due to the northern academies. That means the overall standard of the league is going to get better. You can't just remove this in a few years either because all of the hard work will go to waste and be completely eradicated for the future. The northern academies need to stay and the AFL needs to continue to offer the clubs in the northern states incentive to do it properly.

 

[M Malice]

The academies ARE working, and that's why people are mad. This may be a news flash for lots of people on here but more than half the Australian population lives in either NSW or QLD. Now the important part - the simple fact is that, prior to the establishment of the northern academies, the average percentage of draftees coming from NSW and QLD each year was quite low (around 10% from memory). Now we see a healthy percentage of draftees coming out of QLD and NSW. If you're a footy fan and you really care about the game, then you really shouldn't be against this. If you can't think beyond your own club then of course you'll look at this on face value and think it's a bad system but what is really happening here is that the draft pool of talented players is increasing due to the northern academies. That means the overall standard of the league is going to get better. You can't just remove this in a few years either because all of the hard work will go to waste and be completely eradicated for the future. The northern academies need to stay and the AFL needs to continue to offer the clubs in the northern states incentive to do it properly.

great post success is here and will improve as time goes by.
success:- when the academies are developing players that go to the southern states. also think the southern clubs would be over the moon with the academy clubs swapping their higher picks for a bunch of lower (speculative picks for them) in the draft.

 

[Colonial]

They complain when we take victorians.
We get NSW Academies and then exclusively draft from them and they still complain.

 

[Matchu]

great post success is here and will improve as time goes by.
success:- when the academies are developing players that go to the southern states. also think the southern clubs would be over the moon with the academy clubs swapping their higher picks for a bunch of lower (speculative picks for them) in the draft.

Yeah. The important thing to note here is that the northern clubs are "paying" to secure these academy players now. Sydney "paid" their way to the number 3 pick this year via trading. They lost Craig Bird and pick 14 (their first pick) to eventually secure 36, 37 and 44. They then had to use picks 33 (their second pick), 36, 37 and 43 to match Melbourne's bid on Mills. So by upgrading to pick 3, Sydney had to wait until the end of the third round (pick 51) to draft another player. By the end of national draft, the Swans drafted three players with picks 3, 51 and 56. Yes they secured pick 3 but they also completely missed out on the remaining first round, second round and third round. Any AFL recruiter will tell you that's no small price to pay.

There's a reason the Gold Coast stockpiled picks for next year