Roast What the hell is our President doing?

[immortalmike]

Agree on the part about technicality.

But I agree with pg on the point that you cannot throw a blanket over all 34. Some of them like Lovett Murray questioned doc Reid about the program. He didn't get a discount because the action of all the others affected him.

The cas findings also bagged players for not declaring thymodulin in their tests that year. If that's what they thought they were given they should have told testers. Only 8 players were tested during the year and 3 were not in the supplement program. So cas punished all 34 removing discounts based on the action of 5.

I have read the 40 pages and no doubt I would have had comfortable satisfaction - but thought cas were way too tough with their findings about players hiding the truth and should have applied better discounts to charges considering they only heard evidence from 8 players and my other points mentioned above.

That's not going to hep the appeal though being heard in 12 months after suspensions have been served

My understanding is that there were discounts offered and refused before the first hearing. They decided to remain united and thus had to be punished as a whole. This is all the players' mistake, and should be a lesson to them. You sleep with dogs you get fleas.

 

[Toastman]

Maybe he is just trolling Essendon.
This appeal will most likely mean another year of scrutiny of Essendon's actions right through to the period when people are renewing their memberships.
What better way to extend the pain than to give the supplements program another year of media.
Also, even if Gordon's son win's it on a technicality it still won't make Essendon as a club or Hird look clean.

 

[Mattdougie]

My understanding is that there were discounts offered and refused before the first hearing. They decided to remain united and thus had to be punished as a whole. This is all the players' mistake, and should be a lesson to them. You sleep with dogs you get fleas.

Essendon were offered the same deal as Cronulla were given but it never got to the players as it would have included Hird agreeing to a guilty plea at that stage and he was not prepared to do that.

With out Hird agreeing the bombers would have had to sack him to take the deal for the players and they chose not to.

As far as I'm aware there can be no injunction so the players will not be able to play until the hearing which may not be til August so by the time it's finished most of the players will be very close to returning.

 

[Deadly Darcy]

Agree on the part about technicality.

But I agree with pg on the point that you cannot throw a blanket over all 34. Some of them like Lovett Murray questioned doc Reid about the program. He didn't get a discount because the action of all the others affected him.

The cas findings also bagged players for not declaring thymodulin in their tests that year. If that's what they thought they were given they should have told testers. Only 8 players were tested during the year and 3 were not in the supplement program. So cas punished all 34 removing discounts based on the action of 5.

I have read the 40 pages and no doubt I would have had comfortable satisfaction - but thought cas were way too tough with their findings about players hiding the truth and should have applied better discounts to charges considering they only heard evidence from 8 players and my other points mentioned above.

That's not going to hep the appeal though being heard in 12 months after suspensions have been served

All 34 had access to the ASADA hotline to raise the injection regime at any time

All 34 went through the exceedingly thoughough AFL induction programs including comprehensive briefing about drugs in sport and personal responsibility

All 34 took a conscious decision either at the clubs coaches direction (99.9999 percent certain it had to have been) or not to keep the program a secret

All 34 player own a component of this and under strict rules of global sport are liable

I hate Hird for being an absolute central villain in this but the players are just reaping their component of the field that was collectively sown.

 

[immortalmike]

Essendon were offered the same deal as Cronulla were given but it never got to the players as it would have included Hird agreeing to a guilty plea at that stage and he was not prepared to do that.

With out Hird agreeing the bombers would have had to sack him to take the deal for the players and they chose not to.

As far as I'm aware there can be no injunction so the players will not be able to play until the hearing which may not be til August so by the time it's finished most of the players will be very close to returning.

Crameri was able to take a reduced penalty last year but was convinced not to by his mother. This deal was available to all 34 players. None splintered off. Once again it comes down to a lack of personal accountability.

 

[Mattdougie]

Crameri was able to take a reduced penalty last year but was convinced not to by his mother. This deal was available to all 34 players. None splintered off. Once again it comes down to a lack of personal accountability.

Mate I've been lucky enough to talk to a player involved and my take is they are all finding it very hard to go it alone due to the loyalty they are and have shown each other since day one

 

[immortalmike]

Mate I've been lucky enough to talk to a player involved and my take is they are all finding it very hard to go it alone due to the loyalty they are and have shown each other since day one

Stop treating grown men like children. If they were happy to stick together they should be fine with being punished together.

 

[JJHunter]

I

My understanding is that there were discounts offered and refused before the first hearing. They decided to remain united and thus had to be punished as a whole. This is all the players' mistake, and should be a lesson to them. You sleep with dogs you get fleas.

All 34 had access to the ASADA hotline to raise the injection regime at any time

All 34 went through the exceedingly thoughough AFL induction programs including comprehensive briefing about drugs in sport and personal responsibility

All 34 took a conscious decision either at the clubs coaches direction (99.9999 percent certain it had to have been) or not to keep the program a secret

All 34 player own a component of this and under strict rules of global sport are liable

I hate Hird for being an absolute central villain in this but the players are just reaping their component of the field that was collectively sown.

I'm not excusing them entirely but reckon they have been put through enough.

You mention the hotline - they were told they were given a legal drug - so even if they rang the hotline the hotline says its legal you are right to proceed.

Short of stealing a vile of what they were given and getting it tested anything they would have declared would have been legal drugs as they were told they were legal.

The point about the hotline is rubbish in my opinion. Your looking at a perfect world scenario

 

[Deadly Darcy]

I



I'm not excusing them entirely but reckon they have been put through enough.

You mention the hotline - they were told they were given a legal drug - so even if they rang the hotline the hotline says its legal you are right to proceed.

Short of stealing a vile of what they were given and getting it tested anything they would have declared would have been legal drugs as they were told they were legal.

The point about the hotline is rubbish in my opinion. Your looking at a perfect world scenario

What they have been put through is an utter disgrace - I can agree with you there. The remainder of the debate is probably better left to the EFC thread as much of it has been digested there already. Needless to say that the fact you and I hold can still hold such opposing positions on liability is one of the many reasons this will have gone on for over 4 years by the time it is done and will cast aspersions on the game, the players and the EFC for ten times that period. It's very interpretive.

 

[Toastman]

I



I'm not excusing them entirely but reckon they have been put through enough.

You mention the hotline - they were told they were given a legal drug - so even if they rang the hotline the hotline says its legal you are right to proceed.

Short of stealing a vile of what they were given and getting it tested anything they would have declared would have been legal drugs as they were told they were legal.

The point about the hotline is rubbish in my opinion. Your looking at a perfect world scenario

Logically if they called the hotline and said 'I'm being given thymosin and it's legal' the hotline person would have then asked which variant of thymosin rather than saying "its legal you are right to proceed". Then they could have contacted Dank, found out that it was TB-4 and called back the hotline to find out that it was banned and then refused the treatment.
Also, if as you assume the hotline did say "its legal you are right to proceed" then they would all be in the clear, the same way as they were cleared for the AOD due to the incorrect assessment by ASADA. So either way making the call keeps them from being suspended.

 

[dogwatch]

I
I'm not excusing them entirely but reckon they have been put through enough.

You mention the hotline - they were told they were given a legal drug - so even if they rang the hotline the hotline says its legal you are right to proceed.

Short of stealing a vile of what they were given and getting it tested anything they would have declared would have been legal drugs as they were told they were legal.

The point about the hotline is rubbish in my opinion. Your looking at a perfect world scenario

I agree it was hard for the players to know what they were being given but perhaps it's worth reflecting that a long standing principle from the AIS is you should NEVER take supplements - because you can't know for sure what you're getting.
They would have heard this message more than once.

There was no need for it from a health and recovery perspective. Let's be honest, on such a club-wide scale it was to build bigger, harder, more resilient bodies to brush aside the opposition. Despite some players' misgivings, with the undoubted peer pressure and perhaps inferred management pressure they all ended up going along with it.

I have some sympathy for the players (I doubt I'd have had the courage to resist or to report it to the AFL in that situation) but the penalty seems fair. It will stand as a lesson for all sportsmen and women. And hopefully for all sports club administrators too.

 

[Mattdougie]

Stop treating grown men like children. If they were happy to stick together they should be fine with being punished together.

Hey mate I'm in no way defending them in just telling you my take on it

 

[immortalmike]

Hey mate I'm in no way defending them in just telling you my take on it

Seems you were bending over backwards giving them an excuse.

 

[Mattdougie]

Seems you were bending over backwards giving them an excuse.

Not at all I think they got their right whack and should have taken the deal that was offered.

The Cronulla players did and who even remembers who they are now.

If by the small chance they do get off by a legal mistake not evidence they think the majority of people still won't label them cheats they are kidding themselves.

 

[compact72]

PG can support them in the background by providing his assistance. However there is no need for him to start becoming an AFL mouthpiece and spreading information that is not true.

Its actually disgusting to see how people are treating an anti doping organization instead of accepting their expertise and moving on.

PG can do whatever he likes, but stop making it look like that drug cheating is ok, and the players can also speak for themselves. They were big and brave enough to have the injections and lie to people about it.

 

[BrisDog]

PG can support them in the background by providing his assistance. However there is no need for him to start becoming an AFL mouthpiece and spreading information that is not true.

Its actually disgusting to see how people are treating an anti doping organization instead of accepting their expertise and moving on.

PG can do whatever he likes, but stop making it look like that drug cheating is ok, and the players can also speak for themselves. They were big and brave enough to have the injections and lie to people about it.

PG becoming a mouth piece for the AFL.......? Pfft, cmon.

All I know is that Gordo is a smarter man than I, is widely known to be one of the better lawyers going around and I have faith in him (not Hird-esque blind faith, Scientology faith etc etc).

 

[Yojimbo]

I've heard Peter Gordon was detained at Tullamarine airport
this morning after they found 40 pounds of crack in his pants.

Sorry big ass humour, i will show myself out !

 

[Crazyhorse1980]

Apparently the court in Switzerland only recognizes German and French language. Mabye l can translate .No

 

[Butane]

Relying on technical legal errors smacks of desperation

Hird should really say enough is enough nough and accept some responsibility

You really don't understand what an appeal is do you. It's not an act of desperation it's actually how appeals work.

This doesn't involve Hird anymore.

It's our Peter's son.

He might get Crameri off and help our chances of winning the flag.