No Oppo Supporters CAS hands down guilty verdict - Players appealing - Dank shot - no opposition - (cont in pt.2)

[Mr Mojo Risin]

A lot of people seem to have this point of view but it's missing the glaringly obvious point of enhancing his reputation.

If the players are responding well to his program and he's claiming it's all one thing, which is legal, but is actually another, which is illegal, then Dank's credibility and results would hold him in very high regard.

Hell, his reputation is what got him the job at Essendon. He was probably hoping to use the club to raise his profile and go international.

Why on earth would he keep the injection numbers so low for something that will improve his reputation?

The lack of supply chain more supports the fraud theory to me. There was certainly no lack of money spent by the club or records of that, after all that is the reason Dank had his contract terminated, for going over budget in the tens of thousands.

 

[DonsRule]

Honestly, who cares what Rita of all people thinks of us?

Not having a go at you there, but she'd be very high on the list of people whose opinion I simply do not care for.

Worse thing is her articles are trying to create a response that helps sell her point in the end.

 

[scottmclaren]

It is plausible he thought it was legal, after all that's what he told The Age reporter and apparently he was in shock when the reporter showed him it was banned.

Given that was well after the fact, it doesn't explain why Dean Wallis's photo and the excel spreadsheet shows thymomodulin.

The truth is out there - but I honestly don't think Dank knows what it is!

Dank is a lot of things and he may have administered TB4. But what I don't think is plausible at all, is that he thought TB4 was legal, right up until Nick McKenzie told him otherwise.

..in May 2012, testified that he administered Essendon players with Thymomodulin, an immunity booster safely given to infants, and not Thymosin Beta 4, a substance banned in sport.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...d/news-story/2c6c0bc8e016b70c9580bbb3e5ed00da

If Dank administered TB4, I think it is much more likely he knew what he was doing and thought he would just get away with it.

This does not explain his use of Thymodulin (sic) with Bates and Trengove.

 

[vaughany]

Honestly, who cares what Rita of all people thinks of us?

Not having a go at you there, but she'd be very high on the list of people whose opinion I simply do not care for.

True should just brush it off but when she refers to us as "conspiracy theory band of fans" and "delusional" it is annoying.
The sub editors choice of a group of ignorant gorillas as the photo to depict Essendon fans is a low blow too ..

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

 

[Doss]

It's gutter journalism from a gutter journalist who works for a gutter publication.

Best ignored.

 

[Lore]

It's gutter journalism from a gutter journalist who works for a gutter publication.

Best ignored.

I wanted to ask who Rita is, but it doesn't sound like I want to know. #donttellme

 

[IHurley]

A lot of people seem to have this point of view but it's missing the glaringly obvious point of enhancing his reputation.

If the players are responding well to his program and he's claiming it's all one thing, which is legal, but is actually another, which is illegal, then Dank's credibility and results would hold him in very high regard.

Hell, his reputation is what got him the job at Essendon. He was probably hoping to use the club to raise his profile and go international.

Conceivably, but as I say, surely he would have gone to fairly considerable lengths to hide the fact that he was using it. And labelling the injections as "thymosin" instead of, say, Vitamin C would be the single laziest cover up in all of human history.

There is no way in the world he would have allowed anything with the name "thymosin" to be anywhere near the books at Essendon is there? And in the one in a million chance he did, surely, as I say, he would have made sure all the players who received that understood that they were receiving thymomodulin and were explicit in their interviews with ASADA that theirs was the legal variety.

His actions - and those of the players - clearly show that they never gave a moment's thought to the possibility that the thymosin injections could get them into trouble.

I mean, he even had thymosin on the consent forms FFS! Why on earth would he have done that if he was trying to cover it up?

Reverse psychology: Level 1000

And even then I don't agree with your premise about enhancing his future income streams. Dank would have had to pay for all the TB-4 stuff himself in order to run a clandestine program. That seems like the business model from hell given that no matter how good a reputation he made from using this stuff without telling the players, whichever club he went to next would never agree to pay him for said injections.

And as others have said, if TB-4 was a significant (albeit clandestine) plank of the program, then there would be a damn sight more than one vague reference in an email to him trying to order it from overseas.

The verdict simply makes no sense on any level. If it had accidentally been used - unlikely but the only possible explanation given the dearth of evidence for it ever being acquired by Dank - then it simply makes no sense to convict even the players who never got thymosin injections and out and out lunacy to claim all the players were wholly responsible for it.

As I said previously. Every time you think about what has gone on you need to start with the two fundamental premises:

1) ASADA incorrectly told the Club that AOD-9604 was not banned.
2) The AFL heard that AOD-9604 was used and instead of waiting to hear if there was sufficient cause to exonerate the Club they tried to manipulate an outcome that would protect the players but screw the club.

Note that *neither* of those things are the fault of the Club. But that is how it all snowballed.

In order to manipulate the outcome the AFL whipped the public into hysteria, completely oblivious that footy is fought along tribal lines and once that genie was out of the bottle with the words "drug cheat", all they could do is just wash their hands of it all as the players, the Club and to some extent, the game, were ruined.

If Essendon had had perfect records it wouldn't have made the slightest difference to how this all panned out. Opposition supporters would have found something else to rationalise their sanctimony.

WADA didn't appeal because Essendon didn't have perfect records. They appealed because it couldn't handle having its local affiliate so completely humiliated. The CAS panel might not always be so hopelessly biased in favour of the entity that funds it but in this case - as we can see from the multiple lies and baseless assertions made by the Panel - it is clear that they knew that there was an awful lot riding on WADA winning this case.

 

[60sbomber]

Conceivably, but as I say, surely he would have gone to fairly considerable lengths to hide the fact that he was using it. And labelling the injections as "thymosin" instead of, say, Vitamin C would be the single laziest cover up in all of human history.

There is no way in the world he would have allowed anything with the name "thymosin" to be anywhere near the books at Essendon is there? And in the one in a million chance he did, surely, as I say, he would have made sure all the players who received that understood that they were receiving thymomodulin and were explicit in their interviews with ASADA that theirs was the legal variety.

His actions - and those of the players - clearly show that they never gave a moment's thought to the possibility that the thymosin injections could get them into trouble.

I mean, he even had thymosin on the consent forms FFS! Why on earth would he have done that if he was trying to cover it up?

Reverse psychology: Level 1000

And even then I don't agree with your premise about enhancing his future income streams. Dank would have had to pay for all the TB-4 stuff himself in order to run a clandestine program. That seems like the business model from hell given that no matter how good a reputation he made from using this stuff without telling the players, whichever club he went to next would never agree to pay him for said injections.

And as others have said, if TB-4 was a significant (albeit clandestine) plank of the program, then there would be a damn sight more than one vague reference in an email to him trying to order it from overseas.

The verdict simply makes no sense on any level. If it had accidentally been used - unlikely but the only possible explanation given the dearth of evidence for it ever being acquired by Dank - then it simply makes no sense to convict even the players who never got thymosin injections and out and out lunacy to claim all the players were wholly responsible for it.

As I said previously. Every time you think about what has gone on you need to start with the two fundamental premises:

1) ASADA incorrectly told the Club that AOD-9604 was not banned.
2) The AFL heard that AOD-9604 was used and instead of waiting to hear if there was sufficient cause to exonerate the Club they tried to manipulate an outcome that would protect the players but screw the club.

Note that *neither* of those things are the fault of the Club. But that is how it all snowballed.

In order to manipulate the outcome the AFL whipped the public into hysteria, completely oblivious that footy is fought along tribal lines and once that genie was out of the bottle with the words "drug cheat", all they could do is just wash their hands of it all as the players, the Club and to some extent, the game, were ruined.

If Essendon had had perfect records it wouldn't have made the slightest difference to how this all panned out. Opposition supporters would have found something else to rationalise their sanctimony.

WADA didn't appeal because Essendon didn't have perfect records. They appealed because it couldn't handle having its local affiliate so completely humiliated. The CAS panel might not always be so hopelessly biased in favour of the entity that funds it but in this case - as we can see from the multiple lies and baseless assertions made by the Panel - it is clear that they knew that there was an awful lot riding on WADA winning this case.

There is a great deal of truth in all of this.
But the one thing that sticks out like a sore thumb and has continually been ignored by ASADA, and now by CAS, is the consent forms.
Among all the talk of cover ups, and then of players concealing thymosin use from ASADA on their declaration forms, it sticks out like a beacon that anyone trying to conceal use of thymosin, or TB4 if you like, would not sign a consent form listing it, would not hang onto the form during the period they were supposedly concealing its use, and would certainly not have handed over the form to the investigation, and would not have openly talked about recalling thymosin at their interview.
You can't get around this.
ASADA/WADA and CAS just ignored it.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Still don't get how Thymosin on the forms means players took TB4.

 

[efcboy]

& if what I heard this morning was correct, WADA have the right to appeal again if by some miracle the players appeal is successful.

How bout them apples?...

If the sentence is already served by the time they are cleared (if successful) wouldn't be much point WADA appealing again..not ruling it out but WADA would feel their message was clear anyway given they'd screwed players over for a year anyway...

 

[efcboy]

I still don't know how the ACC cleared Demetriou of any wrong doing over the tip off. If it's one thing in this entire saga we can be sure of is that tip off to Evans.

AT DEMETRIOU'S OWN ADMISSION HE WOULD GO TO JAIL FOR TIPPING ESSENDON OFF!!!!! Yet he walks around as a free man!

Did ACC clear him to protect themselves and/or ASADA and/or government officials and/or MOPs????

From what I've read, Demetriou should not have known anything (he clearly did) and those who tipped him off would probably share a jail cell with him. So who tipped him off? How far does the stench go?

Even if (as some have said) Demetriou was trying to help us (some ******* help that was), laws clearly seem to have been broken.

So I ask again, why did ACC clear him?

Call it corruption- call it whatever you like. It fails the sniff test, with a massive stench through multiple organisations.

There's also a chance the club was Gold Coast and Demetriou threw EFC under the bus to protect them...

 

[fishardansin]

It is plausible he thought it was legal, after all that's what he told The Age reporter and apparently he was in shock when the reporter showed him it was banned.

Given that was well after the fact, it doesn't explain why Dean Wallis's photo and the excel spreadsheet shows thymomodulin.

The truth is out there - but I honestly don't think Dank knows what it is!

What you're saying is that less than 12 months after going to a big effort to cover up TB4 use at Essendon Dank was shocked it was banned. I am no fan of Dank but it should be very clear to everyone that he thought the reporter was talking about thymomodulin. Dank described a peptide that works like that for the immune system as well.

 

[expires]

The appeal will get the CAS verdict over turned. Except for missed football, all's well that ends well.

 

[Liberator]

Tubesteak. By the pound ....

 

[Loonerty]

Thread title guys, c'mon.

 

[MarkG]

There's also a chance the club was Gold Coast and Demetriou threw EFC under the bus to protect them...

Imagine what Dank may have given the Gold Coast players. Young bodied guys being provided body upsize treatment by Dank to allow them to compete at AFL level.

 

[ManWithNoName]

My favourite thing about all these ridiculous conspiracies is that apparently they're so obvious that old mate on the internet knows about them, but no journalist does. And don't give me that "accreditation" nonsense. If Demetriou threw us under the bus to protect another club, or there's other clubs as bad as we were, or any of it, it WOULD be reported.

 

[boncer34]

My favourite thing about all these ridiculous conspiracies is that apparently they're so obvious that old mate on the internet knows about them, but no journalist does. And don't give me that "accreditation" nonsense. If Demetriou threw us under the bus to protect another club, or there's other clubs as bad as we were, or any of it, it WOULD be reported.

Not if it was covered up.

Robbo and Rohan don't strike me as great investigative journalists.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Not if it was covered up.

Robbo and Rohan don't strike me as great investigative journalists.

If it was covered up so well how did old mate BF poster/twitter user find out?

You're right about Robbo and Rohan. McKenzie and Baker aren't to be messed with though.

 

[boncer34]

If it was covered up so well how did old mate BF poster/twitter user find out?

You're right about Robbo and Rohan. McKenzie and Baker aren't to be messed with though.

Old mate BF poster/twitter is going on gut and drawing lines. Not definitive proof. It doesn't mean it's not true.

McKenzie and Baker. Meh.

Sepp Blatter was corrupt long before he took office in FIFA. Much larger game, much larger media, much better journalists then M & B and look how long it took for his bullshit to be officially exposed.

Face it journalism today is a joke, we have a status quo and those involved in football aren't going to upset their gravy train and those not inolved in football don't really give a big enough s**t. M & B went the easy target in this, anything more profound and in depth isn't worth their time.

 

[DonsRule]

If it was covered up so well how did old mate BF poster/twitter user find out?

You're right about Robbo and Rohan. McKenzie and Baker aren't to be messed with though.

While I agree we were deserving of our penalties.

I think you need to look through all the Fed court docs to see how much the AFL strong armed ASADA.


Look at the AFl role call audit of all clubs...what was it 24 hours later Dank released his messages with Bate. Do you think that would have comes out any other way?

I tend to think it's foolish to say too the AFL didn't set up to firewall this to Essendon. A point Uppercut has made before. The the release of the charge sheet the AFL made this very public and very dirty IMO. Thats not saying we had no fault. But I think the AFL did everything to contain the saga to Essendon only.

 

[IHurley]

My favourite thing about all these ridiculous conspiracies is that apparently they're so obvious that old mate on the internet knows about them, but no journalist does. And don't give me that "accreditation" nonsense. If Demetriou threw us under the bus to protect another club, or there's other clubs as bad as we were, or any of it, it WOULD be reported.

Aaah yes the ol' "if it is so obvious, why doesn't everybody see through it?"

It sounds like a good argument until you peruse history for more than 30 seconds. Indeed, the more obviously wrong something is, the less likely people are to question it.

Europeans burnt witches for hundreds of years and in all that time all anybody had to do was say "if they truly were witches, then wouldn't they turn you to frogs long before you got the chance to burn them at the stake?" And there would have been a few contrarians saying such things but the average person would have heard this, shrugged their shoulders and said to themselves "well if it was *that* obvious then all the great minds would have already seen this argument and dealt with it. Surely!"

But they hadn't. Groupthink is easily the most powerful force in the universe. It is why terms like "conspiracy theorist" or "consensus" or "peer-review" are such effective arguments even though they have no logical basis. Everybody believes in conspiracies (terrorism, organised crime, hostile foreign armies) and you can have an absolute consensus (or peer-reviewers) of astrologers or Scientologists.

It doesn't make either of those beliefs valid.

Remember how I said before that you look to people's opinions rather than the facts to formulate your beliefs?

You said that I was wrong.

I wasn't.

 

[Doss]

Now we're talking about Europeans burning witches and Scientology.

Oh boy!

 

[60sbomber]

Old mate BF poster/twitter is going on gut and drawing lines. Not definitive proof. It doesn't mean it's not true.

Strands in a cable.
Allows you to make assumptions, apparently.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Aaah yes the ol' "if it is so obvious, why doesn't everybody see through it?"

It sounds like a good argument until you peruse history for more than 30 seconds. Indeed, the more obviously wrong something is, the less likely people are to question it.

Europeans burnt witches for hundreds of years and in all that time all anybody had to do was say "if they truly were witches, then wouldn't they turn you to frogs long before you got the chance to burn them at the stake?" And there would have been a few contrarians saying such things but the average person would have heard this, shrugged their shoulders and said to themselves "well if it was *that* obvious then all the great minds would have already seen this argument and dealt with it. Surely!"

But they hadn't. Groupthink is easily the most powerful force in the universe. It is why terms like "conspiracy theorist" or "consensus" or "peer-review" are such effective arguments even though they have no logical basis. Everybody believes in conspiracies (terrorism, organised crime, hostile foreign armies) and you can have an absolute consensus (or peer-reviewers) of astrologers or Scientologists.

It doesn't make either of those beliefs valid.

Remember how I said before that you look to people's opinions rather than the facts to formulate your beliefs?

You said that I was wrong.

I wasn't.

What the bloody hell.