2016 Brisbane Lions starting line up

[L Dizz]

what ever happened to Harwood the inside mid a few years back? He looked really good at ressies level but for some reason has been turned into a defender. Still think he should be playing midfield minutes.

He doesn't have the tank to play midfield. He's clearly the worst runner (bar Mathieson who can be excused to a degree as it's his first preseason) amongst the smalls at training. And given he's been around for 6 (?) years, I can't see it improving. Anyway, it doesn't hurt to have an additional bloke in the back half that can win the footy on the ground given there are so many stoppages all over the field nowadays.

 

[a mayes ing]

http://www.lions.com.au/news/2016-02-10/different-positions

Nice little write up, pretty much saying what we all thought. Mayes back flank, Rich midfield, McStay backs, Zorko fwd/midfield

 

[xplo]

What are people's opinion on Ryan Harwood?

Is he a proven performer or are there issues in his game that he needs to address before solidifying a best 22 position?

I think he is a reasonable user of the ball, his run and grunt are fantastic. Can he perform the small defender lock-down role and effectively hurt opposition on the rebound?

I hope either we evolve beyond his abilities, or he does.

For mine, he hasn't ever shown he can lock down a small Ballantyne, Dalhaus, Betts type. He's not a notable athlete in the group and that's important when it comes to getting back after turnovers. He's not a backline general.

We know he has an impressive 'rugby-like' punch-through run which really catches the eye but his inability to consistently select the best option takes the edge off that value for mine. He is hard-edged but is that enough?

I try not to be too negative but we definitely have better defensive playmakers and we NEED better defensive stoppers. If he can be that better stopper, good luck to him, but between Gardiner, McGrath, Dawson, Paparone and Cutler we have a few options.

Agree with L_Dizz. If we're good enough to keep him as a gap filler, we'll be going ok.

 

[POBT]

I don't think Harwood necessarily takes poor options. The problem, as I see it, is that he makes a skill error howler which, due to his role, almost invariably leads to a goal. It is the simple 15 metre pass than goes over a teammate's head or lands a metre short. He might only do that a couple of times a match but it hurts badly when he does. He's not alone in committing skill errors but defenders making mistakes hurts so much more.

If he can eliminate the howler then I think his disposal is otherwise very neat and he generally puts the ball to advantage. He might not kick a 50 metre worm burner that breaks open a zone but, other than the howler, he puts the ball in a better spot. He might not be the one that drives offensive ball movement but he's made the quick, accurate pass that has enabled the ball to be moved forward.

I think the ability to win the ground ball contest is often underrated in defenders and Harwood is really good at getting the ball back, laying a tackle or causing a stoppage. They might not be the sexiest attributes but it brings a level of desperation that I like to see in defensive groups - the sort of dirty work that defenders pride themselves on.

I always saw him as the natural successor to Adcock who I think shares a lot of characteristics with Harwood. Harwood probably does need to work on the organisational/leadership side of his game as I think it was those intangibles that allowed Adcock to play above his natural footballing talent.

I think some of the doubts over Harwood as a footballer are because guys like him don't compare favourably to attacking, noticeable types like Cutler. There's a bit of "drummer in the band" stuff when it comes to the likes of Harwood, Adcock etc. You need them but they don't always stand out.

While I think there are more talented footballers on the list, I keep putting Harwood in my side for round 1 because I think his maturity and hardness will be needed if we go in with the likes of Mayes, Cutler and McStay playing running roles down back. Those guys don't necessarily have the same disciplined, scrapping instincts as Harwood and I think he will be a good counterbalance, for the purposes of team fit. But if Harwood keeps committing the howler (and reports from one intraclub weren't positive in that regard), then he probably can't have too much cause for complaint if he misses selection.

 

[Jman78]

I don't think Harwood necessarily takes poor options. The problem, as I see it, is that he makes a skill error howler which, due to his role, almost invariably leads to a goal. It is the simple 15 metre pass than goes over a teammate's head or lands a metre short. He might only do that a couple of times a match but it hurts badly when he does. He's not alone in committing skill errors but defenders making mistakes hurts so much more.

If he can eliminate the howler then I think his disposal is otherwise very neat and he generally puts the ball to advantage. He might not kick a 50 metre worm burner that breaks open a zone but, other than the howler, he puts the ball in a better spot. He might not be the one that drives offensive ball movement but he's made the quick, accurate pass that has enabled the ball to be moved forward.

I think the ability to win the ground ball contest is often underrated in defenders and Harwood is really good at getting the ball back, laying a tackle or causing a stoppage. They might not be the sexiest attributes but it brings a level of desperation that I like to see in defensive groups - the sort of dirty work that defenders pride themselves on.

I always saw him as the natural successor to Adcock who I think shares a lot of characteristics with Harwood. Harwood probably does need to work on the organisational/leadership side of his game as I think it was those intangibles that allowed Adcock to play above his natural footballing talent.

I think some of the doubts over Harwood as a footballer are because guys like him don't compare favourably to attacking, noticeable types like Cutler. There's a bit of "drummer in the band" stuff when it comes to the likes of Harwood, Adcock etc. You need them but they don't always stand out.

While I think there are more talented footballers on the list, I keep putting Harwood in my side for round 1 because I think his maturity and hardness will be needed if we go in with the likes of Mayes, Cutler and McStay playing running roles down back. Those guys don't necessarily have the same disciplined, scrapping instincts as Harwood and I think he will be a good counterbalance, for the purposes of team fit. But if Harwood keeps committing the howler (and reports from one intraclub weren't positive in that regard), then he probably can't have too much cause for complaint if he misses selection.

Good analysis, agree wholeheartedly with a lot of your points. The thing with Harwood is he runs really well and has an evasive mode when aware of his surroundings.

He can become a weapon down back Im sure of it, as he can make 80m plays when he runs and hits targets

 

[mikey127]

Has Rueben played the intraclubs? How has he gone?

 

[M Malice]

Has Rueben played the intraclubs? How has he gone?

didn't play in the one i went to. but he was doing plenty of laps, looks a lot more physically developed than i thought he would be for a first year player.

 

[DanT7]

Andrews, Merrett, McStay
C Beams, Clarke, Cutler
Bell, Hanley, Bastinac
Zorko, Walker, Taylor
Schache, Freeman, Christensen
Foll: Martin, D Beams, Rockliff

Int: Mayes, Robinson, Rich, Paparone
Emergency: Keayes, Lester, West (ruck)

How is CBeams going at training?
How is Westy going?

CBeams, Cutler, Mayes, Rich, Hanley are all better options to play/switch into defence above Harwood IMHO.

 

[chopperduck]

Cant disagree with POBT there, my feelings exactly on Harwood. His grunt work is underrated, you got to be able to win the hard ball in close down back and he is great at it. He backs himself and does try to get the ball going forward. But his execution of basic skills is a major problem and holds him back. He would be handy as depth, but he should not be our best 22 with those skills. He needs to add that extra intangible element to his game like Adcock did. I always felt that our defense as a collective unit played noticeably better when Adcock was playing, cant say that for Harwood.

Im hoping McGrath will be groomed into that small lock down defender, long term with Cutler and Hanley providing rebound
Diz can also help playing on the small and medium types. Im hoping Hanley might play more from the HB line this season with our increased midfield depth. Bell, Green, Robbo, Bundy along with resting mids like Rocky and Beams take up the forward spots. Hanley has that mix of hardess to win the ball, but gives us some nice run and carry from the back.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

According to the bio on the Lions site, Harwood was the leading clearance winner at the 2009 U18 Championships (playing as an inside mid) and came equal second in the Buckley kicking test at the draft camp. The first of these explains why (as POBT has said) he is an excellent winner of the hard ball. The turnover problem is one hard work and experience might overcome given he appears to have the skills when not under match pressure. I know he has played 50+ games but in reality he has not had many long stints in the team which helps to build confidence and polish.

 

[Skoob]

According to the bio on the Lions site, Harwood was the leading clearance winner at the 2009 U18 Championships (playing as an inside mid) and came equal second in the Buckley kicking test at the draft camp. The first of these explains why (as POBT has said) he is an excellent winner of the hard ball. The turnover problem is one hard work and experience might overcome given he appears to have the skills when not under match pressure. I know he has played 50+ games but in reality he has not had many long stints in the team which helps to build confidence and polish.

I'd love a go at the Buckley kicking test. Does he lay down for it? Reckon I'd go alright.

 

[carnthemlions]

I don't think Harwood necessarily takes poor options. The problem, as I see it, is that he makes a skill error howler which, due to his role, almost invariably leads to a goal. It is the simple 15 metre pass than goes over a teammate's head or lands a metre short. He might only do that a couple of times a match but it hurts badly when he does. He's not alone in committing skill errors but defenders making mistakes hurts so much more.

If he can eliminate the howler then I think his disposal is otherwise very neat and he generally puts the ball to advantage. He might not kick a 50 metre worm burner that breaks open a zone but, other than the howler, he puts the ball in a better spot. He might not be the one that drives offensive ball movement but he's made the quick, accurate pass that has enabled the ball to be moved forward.

I think the ability to win the ground ball contest is often underrated in defenders and Harwood is really good at getting the ball back, laying a tackle or causing a stoppage. They might not be the sexiest attributes but it brings a level of desperation that I like to see in defensive groups - the sort of dirty work that defenders pride themselves on.

I always saw him as the natural successor to Adcock who I think shares a lot of characteristics with Harwood. Harwood probably does need to work on the organisational/leadership side of his game as I think it was those intangibles that allowed Adcock to play above his natural footballing talent.

I think some of the doubts over Harwood as a footballer are because guys like him don't compare favourably to attacking, noticeable types like Cutler. There's a bit of "drummer in the band" stuff when it comes to the likes of Harwood, Adcock etc. You need them but they don't always stand out.

While I think there are more talented footballers on the list, I keep putting Harwood in my side for round 1 because I think his maturity and hardness will be needed if we go in with the likes of Mayes, Cutler and McStay playing running roles down back. Those guys don't necessarily have the same disciplined, scrapping instincts as Harwood and I think he will be a good counterbalance, for the purposes of team fit. But if Harwood keeps committing the howler (and reports from one intraclub weren't positive in that regard), then he probably can't have too much cause for complaint if he misses selection.

The issue for me with Harwood's howlers is that he tends to make mistakes taking the safe option. He's not someone with an overly penetrative kick, and he doesn't tend to take too many risks with the exception of the occasional run through the centre. Makes those turnovers a lot more damaging in comparison with a player who takes more risks with their kicking.
I'm of the view that others have matched his ability and also shown more upside and positional flexibility. He needs to show more.

According to the bio on the Lions site, Harwood was the leading clearance winner at the 2009 U18 Championships (playing as an inside mid) and came equal second in the Buckley kicking test at the draft camp. The first of these explains why (as POBT has said) he is an excellent winner of the hard ball. The turnover problem is one hard work and experience might overcome given he appears to have the skills when not under match pressure. I know he has played 50+ games but in reality he has not had many long stints in the team which helps to build confidence and polish.

The problem is, winning the hard ball is a fair way down the list of desirable attributes for half back flankers.

 

[royboys4eva]

One of our big issues last year was lack of run from the back line. Harwood is a player who can provide that and has shown that ability in spurts in the past. He really needs a big year or might be his last. Last year injury ruined his season but he also strikes me as a player who hasn't taken his chances in the past and probably hasn't been professional off the field in rehab etc.

I really hope the likes of Harwood and Lester grab their chances this year. We need their extra experience and bigger bodies in the side.

 

[POBT]

The issue for me with Harwood's howlers is that he tends to make mistakes taking the safe option. He's not someone with an overly penetrative kick, and he doesn't tend to take too many risks with the exception of the occasional run through the centre. Makes those turnovers a lot more damaging in comparison with a player who takes more risks with their kicking.

I agree. Someone whose kicking splits zones gets a little more leeway when they miss a target. You want them to play adventurous footy. Indeed, the reports from training suggest that decisiveness and/or penetration off half back seem to be a focus.

I will say with Harwood that I've seen him prepared to use the corridor more than some of our other defenders.

 

[POBT]

didn't play in the one i went to. but he was doing plenty of laps, looks a lot more physically developed than i thought he would be for a first year player.

He's a unit, isn't he? Really broad across the shoulders.

 

[bato]

B: Daniel McStay, Daniel Merrett, Harris Andrews
HB: Sam Mayes, Marco Paparone, Tom Cutler
C: Daniel Rich, Dayne Beams, Pearce Hanley
HF: Allen Christensen, Josh Walker, Dayne Zorko
F: Lewis Taylor, Jonathan Freeman, Josh Schache
Foll: Stefan Martin, Tom Rockliff, Ryan Bastinac
I/C: Mitch Robinson, Tom Bell, Ryan Lester, Rhys Mathieson
Emg: Rohan Bewick, Ryan Harwood, Ben Keays

After today's performances, I'd say this is a fair starting 22.

 

[Milux]

B: Daniel McStay, Daniel Merrett, Harris Andrews
HB: Sam Mayes, Marco Paparone, Tom Cutler
C: Daniel Rich, Dayne Beams, Pearce Hanley
HF: Allen Christensen, Josh Walker, Dayne Zorko
F: Lewis Taylor, Jonathan Freeman, Josh Schache
Foll: Stefan Martin, Tom Rockliff, Ryan Bastinac
I/C: Mitch Robinson, Tom Bell, Ryan Lester, Rhys Mathieson
Emg: Rohan Bewick, Ryan Harwood, Ben Keays

After today's performances, I'd say this is a fair starting 22.

Im not gay but that centre line made me a little tight in the groin region.

 

[lionshine]

B: Daniel McStay, Daniel Merrett, Harris Andrews
HB: Sam Mayes, Marco Paparone, Tom Cutler
C: Daniel Rich, Dayne Beams, Pearce Hanley
HF: Allen Christensen, Josh Walker, Dayne Zorko
F: Lewis Taylor, Jonathan Freeman, Josh Schache
Foll: Stefan Martin, Tom Rockliff, Ryan Bastinac
I/C: Mitch Robinson, Tom Bell, Ryan Lester, Rhys Mathieson
Emg: Rohan Bewick, Ryan Harwood, Ben Keays

After today's performances, I'd say this is a fair starting 22.

Interested in hearing your thoughts on why you have let Clarke out. Players like Green, CBeams and Gardiner will need to work their way back from injury before earning a place in the side. Players like Bewick, Robertson, Dawson, Jansen, Harwood and Keays will fight for selection in the reserves. That is 10 players who will also be pushing hard for selection in the reserves

 

[bato]

Interested in hearing your thoughts on why you have let Clarke out. Players like Green, CBeams and Gardiner will need to work their way back from injury before earning a place in the side. Players like Bewick, Robertson, Dawson, Jansen, Harwood and Keays will fight for selection in the reserves. That is 10 players who will also be pushing hard for selection in the reserves

Left Clarke out because he still seems to be struggling with concussion.

 

[POBT]

Left Clarke out because he still seems to be struggling with concussion.

6 weeks til round 1.

 

[Big Sauce 21]

6 weeks til round 1.

Seems like a nasty one. James McManus of the Newcastle Knights wont play a game this year due to a concussion

 

[WA Lion]

Seems like a nasty one. James McManus of the Newcastle Knights wont play a game this year due to a concussion

I think in McManus case he had several concussions, and then one particularly bad one which caused the year out. But your point is right, they can be ongoing problems

 

[bato]

Yeah, we saw what impact concussion had on guys like Brodie Smith & Luke Parker. They just weren't the same players for six weeks+. Took them until the last few rounds of the season to get going again.

 

[WA Lion]

Yeah, we saw what impact concussion had on guys like Brodie Smith & Luke Parker. They just weren't the same players for six weeks+. Took them until the last few rounds of the season to get going again.

and then there was poor old Goose last year

 

[SizeMatters]

B: Daniel McStay, Daniel Merrett, Harris Andrews
HB: Sam Mayes, Marco Paparone, Tom Cutler
C: Daniel Rich, Dayne Beams, Pearce Hanley
HF: Allen Christensen, Josh Walker, Dayne Zorko
F: Lewis Taylor, Jonathan Freeman, Josh Schache
Foll: Stefan Martin, Tom Rockliff, Ryan Bastinac
I/C: Mitch Robinson, Tom Bell, Ryan Lester, Rhys Mathieson
Emg: Rohan Bewick, Ryan Harwood, Ben Keays

After today's performances, I'd say this is a fair starting 22.

Geez that's a good looking team. Even with a fit Clarke it's hard to move him in there somewhere. Clarkes main problem is that he is a Merrett clone, prefers to spoil and has suspect disposal coming out of defence. Merrett is a better defender ATM so you will have to play him before Clarke. McStay, Andrews and Paps just provides a much more aggressive and mobile defensive unit, that have an ability to play on a range of opponents or positions.