List Mgmt. 2016 Draft, Trading and Free Agency Thread

[Unique Name]

None of these guys are worth more than a third rounder.

I think Clarke would only leave if he got a decent 4 year+ contract that we weren't willing to match. Can't see him leaving for a small/short contract because surely we would match it. If he does leave we should be in line for either a 2nd round pick after where ours was or an end of 2nd rounder.

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2015-10-07...-to-earn-firstround-free-agency-compensation-

Leuenberger trade netted the Lions a second rounder and I imagine Clarke would be around the same value.

I agree with you on the rest.

 

[heavho]

If we finish near the bottom at seasons end Which at this point looks like it .we should do a clean out though in my opinion. there has to be a point where the club shows some balls and bites the bullet. Trade what you can. Will be interesting to see what the list management chooses to do at the end of the year. Personally I hope they do show some balls

 

[Unique Name]

Ibbo still has another year left on his contract but he would definitely be worth an early-mid 2nd rounder.

I think if we start playing the likes of Mora and Hughes ahead of him in the coming weeks I think Ibbo would be wise to request a trade. He still has at least 3-4 years left and it would really hurt his potential earnings for his last contract if he becomes a regular at Peel for the next two years.

He is an excellent loose defender and plenty of teams would be willing to give up a 2nd rounder to bolster their backline for the next few years. We can afford to lose him because we have a few players that can already play that position.

 

[MadDocker]

Seasons done, Sandi is signed up for next year and Griff is old. Perhaps we should be going in with Clarke & Hannath as our rucks for the rest of the year to both see what they have and pump up any potential trade value?

 

[Righteo]

Seasons done, Sandi is signed up for next year and Griff is old. Perhaps we should be going in with Clarke & Hannath as our rucks for the rest of the year to both see what they have and pump up any potential trade value?

Sandi should make it back again this year surely? And please don't use that taboo word around here, call him H-Man or something

 

[Kram]

Hannaff needs to be given a game so we can see what he can do.

 

[MadDocker]

Hannaff needs to be given a game so we can see what he can do.

Agree with this. If Clarke leaves, we're left with Sandi who is great but getting on, Griff who is a battler and Hannath. If there was ever a time to give him a run and see what he offers to either us or other clubs, it's now.

 

[Freo Blood]

We know what Hannath can do and it aint pretty.

 

[blue shark]

If we make more than eight changes to the main list, then we are in a total rebuild. Especially when looking at potential
retirees Pavlich, Mz, Griffen, Johnson. Add trades/delisting Hannath, Suban, Deboer, Ibbotson, Silvagni, Barlow, Mayne.
Not all of the above should be gone, but looking at the above list, only Johnson would be missed, hardest to replace.

 

[go_the_dockers]

If we make more than eight changes to the main list, then we are in a total rebuild. Especially when looking at potential
retirees Pavlich, Mz, Griffen, Johnson. Add trades/delisting Hannath, Suban, Deboer, Ibbotson, Silvagni, Barlow, Mayne.
Not all of the above should be gone, but looking at the above list, only Johnson would be missed, hardest to replace.

C Pearce is the other, which is 12 over 2 years with out much effort.

 

[TheMcManusNose]

If we make more than eight changes to the main list, then we are in a total rebuild. Especially when looking at potential
retirees Pavlich, Mz, Griffen, Johnson. Add trades/delisting Hannath, Suban, Deboer, Ibbotson, Silvagni, Barlow, Mayne.
Not all of the above should be gone, but looking at the above list, only Johnson would be missed, hardest to replace.

Not really sure i'd label it such, though I guess it depends what you mean. I think we should make pretty much all the changes you list (keep Barlow, DeBoer and maybe 1 year for Griff as a backup option, so 8 changes). If we can pick up a 2nd and a couple of late 3rd rounders, that's great.

I really think we need to do that this year. The earlier you start, the earlier we have a couple of these potential draft picks establish themselves as contributors. Thus, the earlier we're back up and about.

 

[blue shark]

Not really sure i'd label it such, though I guess it depends what you mean. I think we should make pretty much all the changes you list (keep Barlow, DeBoer and maybe 1 year for Griff as a backup option, so 8 changes). If we can pick up a 2nd and a couple of late 3rd rounders, that's great.

I really think we need to do that this year. The earlier you start, the earlier we have a couple of these potential draft picks establish themselves as contributors. Thus, the earlier we're back up and about.

I know this wont be popular, but eight changes is more than enough, and I don't see the point in cutting guys just to prove
our list will be younger.
With the retirements, and players seeing the writing on the wall, asking to be traded, we should see change naturally occurring.
Would prefer to keep either Suban/Deboer Barlow/Ibbotson Mayne/Silvagni.
Plus another two to go, and this would leave us with some mature depth, cover injury and not throwing kids to the lions.

 

[Nickos66]

Trade all these blokes at seasons end. Could move up draft order or get something better in value for them. Rebuild could be quick if we make the right chess moves at seasons end.

*mayne
*crozier
*sheridan
*suban
*sutcliffe
*mzungu
*silvagni
*clarke
*dawson
*deboar

I think it's the melt thread you're after?

That's just not gonna happen.

 

[TheMcManusNose]

I know this wont be popular, but eight changes is more than enough, and I don't see the point in cutting guys just to prove
our list will be younger.
With the retirements, and players seeing the writing on the wall, asking to be traded, we should see change naturally occurring.
Would prefer to keep either Suban/Deboer Barlow/Ibbotson Mayne/Silvagni.
Plus another two to go, and this would leave us with some mature depth, cover injury and not throwing kids to the lions.

Fair enough, a different philosophy to mine. While I agree natural change will occur, I think we should be aggressive with it.

Your last point is a consideration I think. But i'm at the stage where i'd rather throw the kids to the lions. I think it's fine, or even desirous, to be cautious with that and seek to have excellent depth cover when you're pushing top-4. You can't drop a game. But when there are some clear holes to be filled both now and in the future, get them in and see if any one of them shines. It doesn't really matter if you lose a couple from having a few too many kids in the side. That's almost advantageous in improving draft position and getting them extra experience.

In that respect, next year i'd prefer injury cover for, say, Dawson/A Pearce to be Collins/Uebergang/Hurley/Whoever, rather than Silvagni being there in the mix to prevent one getting AFL games. I feel the same with respect to Mayne, Suban, Ibbo, Barlow. Keep them for depth and you're likely to see one get a game or 3 instead of a more speculative punt on a Hughes/Balic/Nyhuis/whatever.

If there's less than 8 changes i'll be disappointed, personally.

 

[Tbonefreo]

What has ricky henderson been doing latley? Always rated him.

 

[freoextra]

Fair enough, a different philosophy to mine. While I agree natural change will occur, I think we should be aggressive with it.

Your last point is a consideration I think. But i'm at the stage where i'd rather throw the kids to the lions. I think it's fine, or even desirous, to be cautious with that and seek to have excellent depth cover when you're pushing top-4. You can't drop a game. But when there are some clear holes to be filled both now and in the future, get them in and see if any one of them shines. It doesn't really matter if you lose a couple from having a few too many kids in the side. That's almost advantageous in improving draft position and getting them extra experience.

In that respect, next year i'd prefer injury cover for, say, Dawson/A Pearce to be Collins/Uebergang/Hurley/Whoever, rather than Silvagni being there in the mix to prevent one getting AFL games. I feel the same with respect to Mayne, Suban, Ibbo, Barlow. Keep them for depth and you're likely to see one get a game or 3 instead of a more speculative punt on a Hughes/Balic/Nyhuis/whatever.

If there's less than 8 changes i'll be disappointed, personally.

I think there is little doubt that 8 - 10 changes will take place at the end of the year. Think around 14 was the biggest shift in players we made one year and that turned out very nicely.

 

[Cobbler]

People thoughts the same about Jenkins and Lynch when the crows signed them. Wouldn't they look great in our team now.

This is where the value is, out side of other teams 22.

Ok so you pick out a couple who turned out ok.

Should we provide a list of all of those that have failed?

For every Jenkins and Lynch from one team there's a whole stack of Gumbletons, Anthonys etc.

 

[Scham]

We know what Hannath can do and it aint pretty.

Exactly, the club would know by now exactly what he's capable of. If they give him a game it won't be so the supporters can get another look at him so they (the supporters) can decide whether he's worth persevering with, it'll because they need him to play.

 

[Taylor]

Has any other 18 game tall been written off by us?

Oh yes, we do that.

 

[Docker79]

If we do trade Ibbo think your evaluation of a 2nd rd pick is spot on. Ibbo was All Aus squad last year.

See Ibbo as very similar to Joel Patful who went to GWS for pick 21

Ibbo still has another year left on his contract but he would definitely be worth an early-mid 2nd rounder.

I think if we start playing the likes of Mora and Hughes ahead of him in the coming weeks I think Ibbo would be wise to request a trade. He still has at least 3-4 years left and it would really hurt his potential earnings for his last contract if he becomes a regular at Peel for the next two years.

He is an excellent loose defender and plenty of teams would be willing to give up a 2nd rounder to bolster their backline for the next few years. We can afford to lose him because we have a few players that can already play that position.

 

[Allikat]

You guys realise we have to keep enough players to actually field a 22 next year?

 

[MadDocker]

All good, the 17 year old superstars and poor buggers like Crozier who are being repressed are going to spring to life and catapult us into premiership mode again.

Lol.

 

[TheMcManusNose]

You guys realise we have to keep enough players to actually field a 22 next year?

Current list is 39 senior + 6 rookie.

8 is a drop in the bucket.

2008 we had 12 retirements/delistings/trades in a similar (but worse) situation. We brought in 14 new draftees and I think it's pretty indisputable that the 2008 draft in particular helped set us up for our successes 2010-2015.

2009 9 retirements/delistings/trades

2010 9 retirements/delistings/trades (not including re-rookies)

2011 10 retirements/delistings/trades (not including re-rookies)

 

[Taylor]

Current list is 39 senior + 6 rookie.

8 is a drop in the bucket.

2008 we had 12 retirements/delistings/trades in a similar (but worse) situation. We brought in 14 new draftees and I think it's pretty indisputable that the 2008 draft in particular helped set us up for our successes 2010-2015.

That is also the year a lot of these guys who didn't measure up were drafted, I think we need to try and stagger the list changes so our picks are almost always top 40.

 

[TheMcManusNose]

That is also the year a lot of these guys who didn't measure up were drafted, I think we need to try and stagger the list changes so our picks are almost always top 40.

Whether they don't measure up now is pretty inconsequential really. Unless you're talking about the Hinkleys - the total spuds we jettisoned almost immediately. I doubt you'll find anyone who really disagrees with the idea that DeBoer (rookie), Clarke (3rd rounder), Clancee (rookie) and Suban (2nd rounder) were useful during the 2012-2015 period and contributed to our success in that time. Admittedly 2008 is an above average draft, but hey.

I completely disagree with your premise though. We need to go hard, and we need to go now (this year and next). Or we risk meandering about being pretty good due to our top 6-7 players but ultimately being a team with too many holes to really push premiership contenders. Then nek minnut Hill's the other side of 30, Fyfe's 29 and we're back in the same boat.

We should look to get 2nds and 3rds from current and future 'list cloggers' now that we actually need to get some list transition happening. I've posted a bit on the idea that our main failure with respect to KPPs is not taking them in the 1st and 2nd round, but we need more than KPPs. In the past we've obtained useful players from 3rd rounders and rookie picks - we need to continue that. A couple of, or even a few top-40 picks over the next couple of years is not going to turn over the list sufficiently.