2nds 2016 Lions reserves and NEAFL thread

[Cockliff38]

I think we're going to have to rest Martin and some point. He looked really tired on the weekend. Hmm

 

[KissKiss]

I think we're going to have to rest Martin and some point. He looked really tired on the weekend. Hmm

Wouldn't surprise me if he was still getting over the knock to the head. Seems like even if they pass the tests and play, that most players aren't quite right for at leas a few weeks

 

[Fatcat08]

Wonder whether they'll throw Freeman in the ruck for a bit in the reserves just to get him in the contest and hope it hits home for him how much harder he needs to work just to get from ruck contest to ruck contest.

 

[a mayes ing]

I wouldn't mind doing what Freo did. Kick Freeman out for a few weeks for him to get fitter and think about whether he really wants to be a football player. Then ask him, play him the next game and see if that changes his mindset.
Our reserves certainly wouldn't lose anything with him gone.

 

[ZoBlitz]

Wonder whether they'll throw Freeman in the ruck for a bit in the reserves just to get him in the contest and hope it hits home for him how much harder he needs to work just to get from ruck contest to ruck contest.

 

[Milk Steak]

My favourite fast bowler from the 80's, used to tear apart Border's top order

 

[blynd_freddie]

My favourite fast bowler from the 80's, used to tear apart Border's top order

nah you're thinking of this bowler...

 

[chopperduck]

Believe being Lethargic is a side affect of concussion, so i would expect while he is medically fine to play, he just isnt at 100%. He is still doing a good job, just not dominating like he normally does. Getting found out a bit as his strength is his work around the ground and after the ruck contest at ground level, and this is where he isnt his normal self. He isnt a great tap ruck.

Also come up against some very good opposition in the first chunk of the year including Goldy, Nic nat and Tippett. Zach Smith also having a good start to the year. Think he will start working his way into form.

 

[Quigley]

I hate the way the young guys keep getting swapped around.

I will pick two by way of example. Given the injury issues Hipwood started the NEAFL season as a defender. He plays really well but obviously still has a lot to learn. Instead of letting him settle into the position and learn what the coaches want of that position inside out he is switched forward after two games. Now he is up forward and having to learn a completely new position in our scheme. Unsurprisingly he has not gone well to date and actually looked better in that role last year.

Similarly with Hammelmann. He was the opposite and started forward (his natural position). Despite being in sides who were flogged he did nicely and seemed our best target up forward. He certainly looked a lot better than last year. Instead of building on that we decide after two games to switch him back. He had a good game in the first game back there admittedly but struggled last week.

I really have a problem with this approach. I think we should be letting guys actually develop a primary position and learn that position. Once they know their primary position by all means give them a run in other roles to broaden their experience but let them learn one position at a time. Let the players have some continuity, build confidence and understanding before requiring them to do something different. The approach that we are adopting has not resulted in a single one of our young KPs doing anything.

Clarke and Andrews settled into their roles and played only those roles and were and are coming along well. McStay who has been thrown all over the ground so far has struggled. Paparone has to keep learning a new position every year. William looked like a decent defensive prospect but is playing forward. McGrath looked like a decent forward prospect but is now being played down back. Mayes is a forward who is played everywhere but up forward.

The coaching team seems to have bought into the concept that a modern footballer has to be able to play all over the ground. That is great but the modern footballer has to be good enough in one position to demand a spot to start with. The approach that we adopt makes learning that position much more difficult.

 

[chopperduck]

It is a hard one with the mKe up of the ressies team. Reading the game reviews they seem to play players in positions to work on a certain aspect rather then learning that position. Going by the ressie reports, Hammer for example was moved back so he can work on his contested and aerial work. Seems like players are given 1 or 2 things to work on and are sometimes moved into a position that will allow then to do this more. Makes sense from a development point of view, especially if the player has been performing well in their natural role. They probably believe they arent getting much out of doing what they can already do and look to develop other areas.

But something must be said about our track record in developing players. Mid draft guys who spend their first 2 years in the ressies dont really seem to ever make it. Where as you look at the likes of Sdyney, they seem to be able to let players develop for a few years and they come in ready for senior action after doing that time. I would hope we are looking at improving this, perhaps seeing what the Swans do. From the outside, and a simple look, they Swans play the ressies like a team, keep it balanced and play players in logical positions. We seem to grab whoever we have left over and make up a team, and treat it as match sim training drills.

Overall our list balance is probably too tall. We have too many talls in our ressies who arent really doing much either. We should have a similar team balance in the ressies to that of the senior team (talls to smalls etc). Depth is more logical and the next cab off the rank for each position is playing that position so should slot into the senior team.

We need to draft more mids/wingers/HF/HB to get that balance right though.

 

[carnthemlions]

I hate the way the young guys keep getting swapped around.

I will pick two by way of example. Given the injury issues Hipwood started the NEAFL season as a defender. He plays really well but obviously still has a lot to learn. Instead of letting him settle into the position and learn what the coaches want of that position inside out he is switched forward after two games. Now he is up forward and having to learn a completely new position in our scheme. Unsurprisingly he has not gone well to date and actually looked better in that role last year.

Similarly with Hammelmann. He was the opposite and started forward (his natural position). Despite being in sides who were flogged he did nicely and seemed our best target up forward. He certainly looked a lot better than last year. Instead of building on that we decide after two games to switch him back. He had a good game in the first game back there admittedly but struggled last week.

I really have a problem with this approach. I think we should be letting guys actually develop a primary position and learn that position. Once they know their primary position by all means give them a run in other roles to broaden their experience but let them learn one position at a time. Let the players have some continuity, build confidence and understanding before requiring them to do something different. The approach that we are adopting has not resulted in a single one of our young KPs doing anything.

Clarke and Andrews settled into their roles and played only those roles and were and are coming along well. McStay who has been thrown all over the ground so far has struggled. Paparone has to keep learning a new position every year. William looked like a decent defensive prospect but is playing forward. McGrath looked like a decent forward prospect but is now being played down back. Mayes is a forward who is played everywhere but up forward.

The coaching team seems to have bought into the concept that a modern footballer has to be able to play all over the ground. That is great but the modern footballer has to be good enough in one position to demand a spot to start with. The approach that we adopt makes learning that position much more difficult.

Andrews started as a forward before being moved back.

 

[POBT]

As a general rule, I think consistency of role is important for young blokes.

However, I don't have that as a hard and fast rule, particularly when it comes to reserves' games. There are some good reasons why you might shift a guy around as a learning opportunity. FWIW, playing behind the footy seems to be preferable in the reserves at the moment as ball spends more time in defence. Rotating tall guys through the CHB role might actually be about fairness and giving everyone a chance to get their hands on the footy.

I also think that the assumption that we 100% know what a player's best position is can be challenged. I also think that "best position" can evolve over time. I'm not sure you can say that the player who comes into the system will be the same player in 5 years time. The half forward in the under 18s may not have the physical attributes or skill set to meet the demands of that role at senior level. I think supporters can be a bit blinkered in this respect.

I've said before that I think "played in the wrong position" is sometimes a cop out for a player not putting in the required effort.

 

[James North]

Not all of the KPP that come to the club are like Schache - I'm pretty sure both these guys (Hippy and Hammer)) have always played as swingmen.

Leppitsch kicked most goals in two seasons straight and ended up being moved by the tyrant coach LeighMatthews to the role of defender.

 

[POBT]

Not all of the KPP that come to the club are like Schache - I'm pretty sure both these guys (Hippy and Hammer)) have always played as swingmen.

Leppitsch kicked most goals at the Bears and ended up being moved by the tyrant coach LeighMatthews to the role of defender.

How many roles did Aker play in his career? I imagine he even had a run on the ruck under Wallsy.

 

[MSB ROYS]

The trouble is that we are drafting to win the AFL and not the NEAFL grand final. This is where we should be able to select more appropriate, preferably mature age non-listed players.

 

[carnthemlions]

As a general rule, I think consistency of role is important for young blokes.

However, I don't have that as a hard and fast rule, particularly when it comes to reserves' games. There are some good reasons why you might shift a guy around as a learning opportunity. FWIW, playing behind the footy seems to be preferable in the reserves at the moment as ball spends more time in defence. Rotating tall guys through the CHB role might actually be about fairness and giving everyone a chance to get their hands on the footy.

I also think that the assumption that we 100% know what a player's best position is can be challenged. I also think that "best position" can evolve over time. I'm not sure you can say that the player who comes into the system will be the same player in 5 years time. The half forward in the under 18s may not have the physical attributes or skill set to meet the demands of that role at senior level. I think supporters can be a bit blinkered in this respect.

I've said before that I think "played in the wrong position" is sometimes a cop out for a player not putting in the required effort.

My impression is that it's about teaching players specific skills and getting them to work on weaknesses rather than trying to teach them numerous roles, at least in the reserves anyway. I don't know if they see William as a forward long term. Based on the reserves reports, they just seem to want him to work on his physical pressure and running.
The other consideration might be that allowing players to settle into a particular position could be detrimental if they're doing so without first developing certain skills to a level that will actually allow them to succeed in that role at afl level. I don't think Patty K would be allowed to run around racking up touches as he pleased without displaying any progress in his defensive running in this reserves side.

 

[Quigley]

Not all of the KPP that come to the club are like Schache - I'm pretty sure both these guys (Hippy and Hammer)) have always played as swingmen.

Leppitsch kicked most goals in two seasons straight and ended up being moved by the tyrant coach LeighMatthews to the role of defender.

I am not saying that you don't move players around but more that you give the player a good run in a particular position before you do.

Leppa spent the vast majority of each season at one end or the other. Acker played a season in defence. In each case though they had continuity in one position before they were moved. In their development phase they were not moved around every week or two to a new position.

The fairness point of POBT's is probably worth noting though.

 

[HowYouDoin]

Personally, i think Woewodin needs to go. Has shown absolutely nothing in his NEAFL tenure and we couldn't possibly sink any further with whom ever we decide to replace him with.

 

[DanT7]

Bring Aker in as a coach.
Seriously, Chris Johnson?

 

[grimlock]

Champion Data re-counted the stats

 

[chopperduck]

6 frees for for Mathieson. Next best was 2 swans players with 3 each. Kid is the next Selwood.

 

[M Malice]

6 frees for for Mathieson. Next best was 2 swans players with 3 each. Kid is the next Selwood.

from a future AFL press conference/press release.

AFL to review surge in free kicks for northern clubs.

the AFL today announced that there will be a complete review of the head ducking, dropping at the knees, shoulder shrugging and arm raising technique for creating head high contact. this is a blight on the game and has gone on long enough Gillon Mclachlan said from his podium at the lexus centre.

Mr. Mclachlan said that at the heart of this decision was a real concern for the health of lions players rhys matheison and allen christensen, if the lions were not prepared to act in the best interests of their players they are forcing our hand said Mr. Mclachlan. joel selwood was announced as the inquiry chair.

lions premiership coach Justin Leppitsch speaking from the players training base shed at giffin park said it is never as good as it seems or as bad as it seems.

 

[Cockliff38]

Champion Data re-counted the stats

Mmm Rolls

 

[royboys4eva]

Mmm Rolls

That's the only thing that made me smile out of that terrible stat sheet. Fair effort from the lad. Actually Mathesion's efforts were also very good. He will be a player i have no doubt.

 

[Cockliff38]

That's the only thing that made me smile out of that terrible stat sheet. Fair effort from the lad. Actually Mathesion's efforts were also very good. He will be a player i have no doubt.

Yeah the exciting thing about Rolls is right now he fills a very big need on our list as a rebounding HBF. All things going to plan we'll see him very early next season