Outer City Loop?
 

This is for Melbourne residents.

What does everyone think about the idea of an outer city train loop? I moved to Melbourne recently and I have wondered wether this idea would be a good one or not. Basically link outer stations together on a separate line that could loop Melbourne, or just the far eastern suburbs. As an example, I live in Berwick, and if I want to go to Ringwood (30 min drive) by train I have to go all the way to the city to change train lines back out. This would be a 2-hour one-way trip, assuming I don’t have to wait for any trains.

If there was an outer city loop I would just catch a train to Pakenham, catch the loop train and get off at Lilydale, and catch a train going to the city and stop off at Ringwood.

Does anyone think that this train line could be useful at all, or is it just a ridiculous idea beyond comprehension? It would be expensive, but the fact it would be built on currently undeveloped land it could be possible.

Re: Outer City Loop?
 

Considering the Government cannot build another freeway for the eastern/SE suburbs, I highly doubt that a new trainline in the east will ever happen.

Re: Outer City Loop?
 

I just wish they would extend the bloody Glen Waverley line. Just another 10 minutes down the road to knox city and I'd be able to have a drink at the footy

Re: Outer City Loop?
 

Seems stupid doesn't it. Perhaps it could run through to UFTG and link up with the Belgrave train.

Re: Outer City Loop?
 

The morons wouldn't even extend it to Waverley for the footy, which pretty much led to its death.
With the suburbs expanding at a rate of knots, the public transport system really needs an upgrade, doubt it will happen anytime soon though.

Re: Outer City Loop?
 

Instead we have the brilliant idea of extending the tram.

Wooh-hoo! :rolleyes:

Re: Outer City Loop?
 

There was a train line that looped the outer suburbs years ago (or was it planned - cant remember)...

As if Bracks would spend money on anything necessary! Maybe he will plan another taskforce onto the matter ($1m - jobs for the boys!).

Re: Outer City Loop?
 

Whether it is the ALP or Libs, public transport is hardly a priority.

And the closet you get to any complaints being aired in the media are people writing into MX about how kids today don't stand up for old people on public transport. I guess it's a start.

For some reason, I can't see Neil Mitchell launching into an editorial about Melbourne's expensive, poorly run public transport system. But if petrol prices go up, well that's another story.

Can you really see your local MP or a high profile journalist waiting for 40 minutes for a bus to take them from Huntingdale Station to Monash Uni Clayton. Great advertisment for the Uni during their recent Open Day. And it's about a 5 minute drive at the most.

Or maybe they find that their train to work is cancelled. No reason - just we apologise for any inconvinience.

It's funny how Connex will talk about their amazing reliability and how 95% (or what ever exaggerated amount their PR department come up with) of their trains are on time. I always seem to be travelling during the time where the 5% of trains are cancelled or delayed.

As for infrastructure - well good luck mate. The conditions of the current facilites aren't great. Connex have enough trouble sticking a couple of carriages on trains during peak hours. As mentioned above, the Glen Waverley line should be extended - but there's little chance of that happening.

Re: Outer City Loop?
 

never happen, wish they did it years ago but cost way too much

Re: Outer City Loop?
 

Aren't there plans for a tram line to be extended out there?

Re: Outer City Loop?
 

Theres some sort of works going on at Burwood Highway/Springvale Road at the moment. I believe it has something to do with the tram.

Re: Outer City Loop?
 

Bloody good idea, but will never happen due to cost. I have a Melways from 1978 that has the Frankston - Scoresby freeway on it!.. Marked for completion soon.

That's 25 years old, and it's still not there!

Gold Coast desperatley needs an underground rail system, but will never happen.

Our Governments simply don't take on large development/infrastructure plans any more because of cost, and are to negaitive and short sighted.

Re: Outer City Loop?
 

They are building a light rail/read tram system for the Gold Coast though.

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Err.. No they're not! There is no building and no plans to start building.

They've talked about it for decades and the time to have built it was around 1985.

The GC City Council are very good at talking, just not very good at planning unless it equals many many developers dollars.

Residents come 2nd as far as the GCCC is concerned and they are so far behind in infrastructure and planning that the entire coast will soon be gridlocked.

Re: Outer City Loop?
 

I've liked the idea for a while. If you look at the train system in a place like London it puts our one to shame - the lines over there seem to intersect every second station.

I do wonder if we have the traffic though to support it though. How many people a day would get on a Glen Waverly to Dandenong train for instance ? Because it would cost a small fortune...

Re: Outer City Loop?
 

The old outer-city loop was closed before 1900, it was basically a liine from Camberwell to Oakleigh along what is now the Alamein line.

The weird thing is that if the Alamein line was extended just 3km from Alamein to Hughesdale (or Oakleigh) it could link the Belgrave / Lilydale line (via Alamein) to the Glen Waverley line (at East Malvern or Holmesglen) and to the Dandenong line. It could also travel via Chadstone.

You could then run some trains from say Caulfield to Box Hill via the detour that it created. Or from Glen Waverley to Box Hil.

You could also run a 'mega-loop' train that went from Flinders St - Flinders St via the extension which would add extra services to the inner city stations without having to run them all the way out to terminuses.

Re: Outer City Loop?
 

There was once an outer circle train line in Melbourne, running seven stations, from East Kew to Fairfield. Part of it still exists as the Alamein line and the rest is a bike path. Closed in the 1940s, I believe.

Also there was an inner circle line, which ran from (I think) Rushall across to Royal Park, with stations such as North Fitzroy, Fitroy and North Carlton. It still sort of exists as the Park Street bike track/walking trail and you can see the footbridge and gates in existence in Fitzroy and it explains the name behind the Railway hotel on Nicholson street. That also closed after WW2, but part remained for freight for a number of years.

Re: Outer City Loop?
 

heh, beat me to it, Weaver.

Re: Outer City Loop?
 

Yep that's right. Tram #75 is being extended to Vermont.

Re: Outer City Loop?
 

Yes fantastic for the traffic....Burwood Highway & Springvale road are now 40kmh, instead of 80. :mad:

Re: Outer City Loop?
 

Oh, so Springvale Rd is faster now? ;)

Re: Outer City Loop?
 

Its a little more than the local council now, the state government, federal government and also the council are involved;

http://www.dotars.gov.au/transprog/rail/gold_coast.htm


Heres the actual web site regarding the project;

http://www.pb.com.au/gclightrail/

Re: Outer City Loop?
 

Yes a feasability study, theyve done these before. As I said there are no plans to build a rail/light rail system on the Gold Coast.

Re: Outer City Loop?
 

Yeah, I know what you all mean it must be frustrating.

I am on the bendigo line at Sunbury, which V Line operate got some problems here as well.

Anyone got comments on the fast rail links ?

Re: Outer City Loop?
 

Having lived at Werribee for a number of years and experienced the inefficiencies of VicRail over a long period, I can sympathise with those on the eastern lines in suburbs with large growth.
Can't see this happening for quite some time though, if at all given Vic Governments tendencies to place public transport well down the list of priorities behind revenue raising from petty raod offences and so on.
There were Circle links on the Melbourne rail system some years ago which I think have been alluded to by other posters. Seemingly the Governments of bygone years planned the infrastructure for expansion in the suburbs a long time before the expansion hence post war Governments deemed too costly to operate and removed, to the detriment of today's society. There was a rail line from Geelong to Queenscliff at one stage too which catered for heavy summer traffic but was closed by some report in the 1970s.
The Werribee line when electrified in 1983 was diverted to run via Altona to save that line's closure, a move which was a major backward step for Werribee commuters who were previously able to use the ex Geelong trains and get to town in 30 minutes now had to suffer diverting onto speed resricted single line track with delays at either end due to signalling, adding an extra 25 minutes to the trip.
Here in Adelaide we had a few such lines , from Dry Creek to Port Adelaide, Port Adelaide to GMH Elizabeth etc. these were closed in the 80s or early 90s. However our fantastic bus system compensates easily.

Re: Outer City Loop?
 

Ever the comedian.

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The only new tram line in the works is extending the 48 to Vermont.

Re: Outer City Loop?
 

No It's the 75 tram that's being extended to Vermont along Burwood Highway.


Found at http://www.doi.vic.gov.au

Minister's message

The three kilometre extension of tram route 75 from Blackburn Road to Vermont South Shopping Centre, together with the upgrade of bus services to Knox City will significantly increase transport options for those living in Melbourne's east.

Tram route 75 will be extended along the Burwood Highway median from the corner of Blackburn Road to Hanover Road and bus route 732 will be significantly upgraded between Vermont South and Knox City with more frequent services and more accessible bus stops.

Utilising the latest technologies in transport, the extension will provide modern raised platform stops, landscaping and a safer operating environment for all road users.

A key feature of the project will be the construction of a tram and bus interchange at Vermont South enabling tram services to be linked and timetabled with buses. This will create a seamless interchange between the two modes of transport and will provide an attractive and affordable alternative to the car.

Planning for this project is significantly advanced and over the coming weeks there will be a number of opportunities for community members to obtain more detailed information and ask questions about the project.

This is an exciting project and I look forward to working with members of the community to deliver a project that we can all be proud of.

Peter Batchelor MP
Minister for Transport

Re: Outer City Loop?
 

Ok, I pledge to vote for any govenrnment who addresses the rail networks. Considering the enormous advantages of public transport, I dont see why it seems to get less and less important int their eyes.


Oh, and whats with the connex ads in the newspapers? How about spending that money on reducing delays/cancellations. Honestly, what is the point of advertising monopolised train lines?

Re: Outer City Loop?
 

Cities like London and Paris don't really have any sort of outerloops. Pretty much as soon as you get outside the periphique in Paris or outside of the circle line in London, most rail lines go pretty much straight out.

And London and Paris can afford to have the inner city lines because both cities have wide areas of dense activity involving a mix of business and residential and both are extremely un-car-friendly. It also helps that both cities don't have a CBD like Melbourne.

Governements are unwilling to pledge too much to public transport because it is expensive. A modern city train system should have trains operating no more that five minutes apart, 3 minutes at peak times, so people aren't waiting too long on exposed platforms. But to do that in Melbourne would be very expensive. The city loop would have to be expanded, no more sharing of lines on the one platform. And level crossings would have to be replaced.

The rolling stock would have to be upgraded, drivers recruited etc.

On top of that, you need to have an efficient and co-ordinated method of getting people from the stations to their final destinantions. Melbourne has too much sprawl to really rely upon people walking to stations. This is where buses and trams come into use.

Interestingly, nobody has mentioned the Footscray-Moonee Ponds tram, which is an indicator of how popular loop systems are (which is not very)