IAJV condemns inhuman Gazan attack.

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Ruanaidh

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Gaza Media Statement

Posted on Friday, January 2, 2009 at 08:22PM by IAJV | Comments Off | Email
The following statement reflects only the views of those signatories whose names appear below. Signatories of other statements or authors of articles and blogs on our IAJV website are not to be taken as endorsing this statement.
***​
We are Australian Jews who join thousands in Israel and around the world condemning ongoing Israeli military attacks on Gaza. Together with Israeli peace group Gush Shalom, we condemn the current war as "inhuman, superfluous" and "abominable".

While Israel has the right to protect its citizens and to demand an end to the crime of Palestinian rockets that target civilians, this cannot be used as a pretext for the grossly disproportionate military assault on Gaza because it was Israel that violated the fragile truce on November 4, 2008. Furthermore, Israel ignored Hamas' diplomatic initiatives to re-establish the cease-fire since it expired on December 19.

The crude home-made rockets have caused relatively few Israeli casualties. By contrast, Israeli bombardment has caused around 400 deaths and 2,000 casualties including a large proportion of women and children. The bombardment has included civilian targets such as a university, television station, factories, mosques, ministry offices, parliament and refugee camps. Since Hamas is a legitimate, democratically elected political party that controls the government, security-related institutions are also civilian targets including police departments and uniformed officers.

History has demonstrated that military punishment has never broken the spirit of a people or produced peace. On the contrary, the assault on the population of Gaza will only inflame hatred of Jews and of the State of Israel while doing nothing to protect the lives of Israelis. Above all, it will undermine the prospects of joining with peace-seeking Palestinians to negotiate a lasting, just solution to the conflict.

The war on the population of Gaza comes after the Israeli blockade that had already created a severe humanitarian crisis under which the Palestinians suffered from lack of food, electricity, medicines, hospital equipment and other basic necessities of life. The blockade was condemned by the UN as a violation of international law and, like the massive Israeli air-strikes, constitutes illegal collective punishment prohibited by the Geneva Conventions.

We call for an immediate end to attacks on civilians by Palestinians and Israelis. However, since Palestinians have no means of self-defence against the most powerful military force in the Middle East, we particularly call on Israel to end its brutal assault on the vulnerable Palestinian people of Gaza and to reconsider its rejection of the UN Security Council's call for a cease-fire.

Israel has refused to accept Hamas' consistent offer of negotiations since its election win in 2006. There can be no solution to the conflict without Israel being a willing partner to dialogue.
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Current total = 131

1. Asoulin, Eran
2. Balint, Dr. Anthony
3. Bamberger, Judy
4. Beauchamp, Alice
5. Benjamin, Professor Andrew FAHA
6. Bersten, Bruce
7. Bersten, Robyn
8. Berzin, Pat
9. Bilander, Celina
10. Bilander, Berish
11. Bilander, Isy
12. Binder, Geoffrey
13. Birch, Bob
14. Blooman, Geoffrey
15. Bloustien, Dr Dave
16. Blustein, Shiffi
17. Bokor, Imre
18. Boniface, Harry
19. Braun, Leo
20. Briskman, Linda
21. Brull, Michael
22. Bush, Jenny
23. Carleton, Jenny
24. Carleton, Susie
25. Cass, Moss (former ALP)
26. Chaitman, Lynn
27. Clemens, R.
28. Cohen, Harry AM
29. Cohen, Ian MLC
30. Cowen, David
31. Cox, Eva
32. Crafti, Dr Naomi
33. D’Aprano, Leonie
34. Dean, Tamara
35. DeSaxe, Mannie
36. di Suvero, Henry
37. Dowse, Sara
38. Dryen, Fred
39. Dryen, Robyn
40. Dwyer, Joan
41. Elson, Shane
42. Faire, Shoshana
43. Faye, Dr. Esther
44. Fink, Michelle
45. Fox, Louise
46. Fox, Mim
47. Freadman, Anne
48. Fried, Nadia
49. Goldflam, Russell
50. Goldman, Arnold
51. Goodman, Professor David S G
52. Gordon, Michael
53. Grant, Dr Joan
54. Grossman, Associate Professor Michele
55. Harris, Marshall
56. Hermolin, David
57. Helfand, Sylvia
58. Horsburgh, Jennifer
59. Horsburgh, Maurice
60. Imber, Madelaine
61. Jaivin Linda
62. Kamerman, Sol
63. Kay, Hanna
64. Kaye, Dr. David
65. Kitching, Professor Gavin
66. Kosky, Jan
67. Lambert, John
68. Langsan, Vic
69. Legge, Bill
70. Leigh, Sue
71. Leonzini, Victor
72. Levy, Dr James
73. Levy, Valerie
74. Lindell, Geoffrey
75. Loewenstein, Antony
76. Loewenstein, Jeff
77. Loewenstein, Violet
78. Macredie, Rochelle
79. Midalia, Dan
80. Miller, Jamie
81. Moore, Stefan
82. Morris, Dr. Alan
83. Morris, Jenny
84. Munz, Martin
85. Mutta, Shari
86. Nahvi, Emma
87. Neering, Ian
88. Nimni, Ephraim
89. Nissen, Alex
90. Otterman, Michael
91. Pataki, Tamas Dr
92. Philips, Michael
93. Pogos, Abe
94. Porzsolt, Vivienne
95. Raber, Richard
96. Rantzen, Vicki
97. Reed, Ann
98. Rich, Dr Joe
99. Riemer, Andrew
100. Romer, Marta
101. Rothfield, Andrew
102. Rudner, Allan
103. Salom Margot
104. Samorzewski, Meika Loofs
105. Segall, David
106. Shapiro-Liu, Rosemary
107. Shimmin, Dr Nick
108. Silverstein, Jordy
109. Singerman, Deborah
110. Slezak, Dr Peter
111. Smit, Jack H
112. Sosnowski, Marika
113. Starfield, Sue
114. Stratton, Jon
115. Tambour, Anna
116. Tropp Fred
117. Urbinder, David
118. Varga, Susan
119. Vorsay, Avril
120. Walton, Peter Leman
121. Wand, Leslie
122. Wasowski, Vera
123. Weisser, David
124. Zilko, Julie
125. Zion, Deborah
126. Zion, Lawrie
127. Zyngier, David Dr
 
must be anti-semites. Oh wait, they are jews. Must be self-hating jews then.

Something about the epithet "self-hating jew" is anti-semitic in itself. It presupposes jews must have one policy, and one policy for jews, and different standards for the goyim. Personally, this is both anti-semitic, and racist.
 

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Where is the petition where one can condemn moronic God Botherers who want to impose a theocracy?
 
medusala said:
Where is the petition where one can condemn moronic God Botherers who want to impose a theocracy?
Click to expand...
what is Israel? It does not offer its citizens equal rights under law unless you are a jew. All this coming from the torah and Herzl's C19 confection.

Who are the real god botherers? Who have dispossessed a native population.

You have a hide meds, talking about islam without mentioning the settlers, Kach, and the jews who trumpet their God given right for Judea and Samaria, whilst inflicting pogroms. Your bigotry well noted.
 
blackcat said:
You have a hide meds, talking about islam without mentioning the settlers, Kach, and the jews who trumpet their God given right for Judea and Samaria, whilst inflicting pogroms. Your bigotry well noted.
Click to expand...

What makes you think I have any time for those nutcases? I have repeatedly said on here how utterly absurd it is that these clowns think God gave them the land.

.
 
Who edited this thread - not the first time this has happened to threads regarding this topic. If the mods want to flex their puny muscles they at least should have the guts and decency to argue why. If it continues it will be good-bye from me.
 
Ruanaidh said:
Who edited this thread - not the first time this has happened to threads regarding this topic. If the mods want to flex their puny muscles they at least should have the guts and decency to argue why. If it continues it will be good-bye from me.
Click to expand...

An Islamist demanding free speech.

Not something you come across every day. Not convinced that Hamas et al are particularly big fans.
 
medusala said:
An Islamist demanding free speech.

Not something you come across every day. Not convinced that Hamas et al are particularly big fans.
Click to expand...
Guffaw, guffaw and double Guffaw. If you believe I am an Islamist you have completely lost your mind. By the way chum, get one quote where I have praised Hamas or their actions. Then go off and find one statement I have made in praise of any Abrahamic religion, including yours........go on.....off-you-go.
 

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medusala said:
An Islamist demanding free speech.

Not something you come across every day. Not convinced that Hamas et al are particularly big fans.
Click to expand...
The PLO were secular. Guess you were calling for the handing back of Palestine back in the 80's to the secular PLO, from the hardline and extremist sectarian settler state.

No, ofcourse not, they were muslim, and arabs to boot, no judeo-christian heritage whatever the confection of judeo-christian.

It was the muslims in Spain of the middle ages that brought christians and jews into society in a process called coexistencia, a tolerance in the englighted middle ages, where they brought many intellectual advances in science, maths and philosophy. The judeo-christian aphorism has been concocted to advance a class of civilisations agenda. Just like in the ME, they will think Bush and the neo-cons are bellicose war criminals representative of a culture and a society, those political actors are as much representative of the anthropological culture as the extremist muslims. The problem is, the extremes do have a pull on politics, and undue weighted influence.
 
blackcat said:
The PLO were secular. Guess you were calling for the handing back of Palestine back in the 80's to the secular PLO, from the hardline and extremist sectarian settler state.

No, ofcourse not, they were muslim, and arabs to boot, no judeo-christian heritage whatever the confection of judeo-christian.

It was the muslims in Spain of the middle ages that brought christians and jews into society in a process called coexistencia, a tolerance in the englighted middle ages, where they brought many intellectual advances in science, maths and philosophy.
Click to expand...


a) I really dont think you get this: to me its like Collingwood playing Carlton ie both times I really dont like. Yet I dislike the Blues less

b) It is truly laughable you bring up the case of the Moorish invasion of Spain given you constantly harp on re occupation.

Lets face it that part of the Middle East was stolen from the Christians anyway.
 
ahistorical and no mention of crusades anyhow, 'nother obfuscation to ignore my point.

Salient point: the clash of civilisations thesis is perpetuated for a political agenda. Jewish societies have lived in the ME for millenia, yet not suffered the pogroms they did in continental (and British Isles) Europe.

When polemicists talk about a shared judeo-christian ethic and history, they must be talking about gas chambers and pogroms in the centuries preceding.

Whereas is the islamic world and the Ottoman empire, the jews had a safe haven. I do not see why medusala ceases not on his agenda of promulgating some civilisational conflict ideology. It is just not there. A few extremists have hijacked not planes, but the western media. The extremists and the media have a dovetailing of interests. If only the media did their job in the first place, and put in context what is occuring in the ME and the history prior to the formation of Israel.

Meds for such a smart guy, you are engaging in petty ideological sorties that are little more than propaganda. You and your agenda is irrelevant to this discourse.
 
blackcat said:
ahistorical and no mention of crusades anyhow, 'nother obfuscation to ignore my point.
Click to expand...

What of the crusades? Merely an attempt to end occupation by an invading force.

Salient point: the clash of civilisations thesis is perpetuated for a political agenda. Jewish societies have lived in the ME for millenia, yet not suffered the pogroms they did in continental (and British Isles) Europe.
Click to expand...

They have been driven from a number of Arab countries.

A few extremists have hijacked not planes, but the western media.
Click to expand...

A few? What of Hamas, Hizbollah, Islamic Jihad not to mention the govts of Saudi and Iran?

If only the media did their job in the first place, and put in context what is occuring in the ME and the history prior to the formation of Israel.
Click to expand...

You make it sound as if all Muslim extremism would end if only Palestine could be solved.

This of course is simply a ludicrous assertion.
 
how about this assertion.

Without puppet regimes, interference by the CIA, coups and overthrows of regimes fomented by the US, and without arbitrary borders like Kingdom of Saud imposed on nations post imperialism, there would be less conflict in the region.

Everyone knows stability is code for "puppet US satellite".

You fail to acknowledge the genesis of sectarian extremism. The extremism is a product of the undemocratic regimes imposed upon populations, in most cases, the result of post Ottoman rule (not a western guilt) and the British imperial project, with the US coming in post WWII to manipulate and conspire. Called blowback in the simplistic international studies idiom.

Do I think that there would not be sectarian violence if the Israel Palestine issue was solved? I doubt it would solve things, as the extremist organisations already have an infrastructure, albeit flat and informal. What would happen though, with less US interference, there would be a less fertile breeding ground for the disenfranchised and disenchanted, who were inclined to take up arms. You solve that problem. If you understand how their behaviour is motivated, you can ammeliorate it. Much of the behaviour is existential, that is their raison d'etre. So you need to turn off the spigot. That means, solve the problem of their fertile constituency and the breeding ground of potential militants.

Shut the spigot, problem on the way to being solved. Not solved, wont be solved, but that needs to be addressed.
 
Ruanaidh said:
Who edited this thread - not the first time this has happened to threads regarding this topic. If the mods want to flex their puny muscles they at least should have the guts and decency to argue why. If it continues it will be good-bye from me.
Click to expand...

I edited the thread as some of the posts were off topic or abusive and I am not answerable to you when I edit any threads on these boards.

If you wish to say goodbye, then do so, no one is keeping you here.
 
blackcat said:
Without puppet regimes, interference by the CIA, coups and overthrows of regimes fomented by the US, and without arbitrary borders like Kingdom of Saud imposed on nations post imperialism, there would be less conflict in the region.
Click to expand...


Lets assume for a minute that actually happens. Thus the GIA comes to power in Algeria, Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt and fanatics in Bahrain and Saudi (and possibly Lebanon).

On what basis would this make conflict less likely?

Iran surely isnt a pupped regime, yet they are funding most of the conflict.
 
right you are meds.

However, that is to remove history and start afresh. I concede, there is one clusterf**k there to be dealt with, and the jews are just as bad as the other states, but they are on our judeo christian side.

I am just saying, one cannot remove the overthrow of Mosaddeq from the equations, and the interference the west has had in the region since the downfall of the Ottoman empire. The west does not own all the responsibility, and if you are a foreign policy realist, the actions of blowback probably need to be judged ceteris paribus, and for that we need one Geoffrey Robertson.

Would the ME look different without Western interference. Moot point. We have got what we have now, and my point is, the West has to own responsibility for some secular movements becoming sectarian under hostile and authoritarian regimes propped up by the West. If you give me the context of history, I am content with your take on the current stalemate in the region. Those sectarian regimes you mention have built political following, if there is no reason to contest the authoritarian regimes or the West, there may well be other popular movements that develop. But don't accuse me of being pollyanna like the guys in the Defence dep't and State dep't, Feith and Wolfie and Rummie. Don't think we can democratise the entire ME in well fell swoop.
 
blackcat said:
Don't think we can democratise the entire ME in well fell swoop.
Click to expand...

I couldnt care less re democratising the ME

I am sick of the extremism permeating the west (which for some obscure reason most prefer to stick their head in the sand over) much of which has its roots in the ME.
 
medusala said:
Lets assume for a minute that actually happens. Thus the GIA comes to power in Algeria, Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt and fanatics in Bahrain and Saudi (and possibly Lebanon).

On what basis would this make conflict less likely?

Iran surely isnt a pupped regime, yet they are funding most of the conflict.
Click to expand...
If you take the pressure and undue influence away from these groups they will die on the vine. Mankind will always gravitate towards Enlightenment and Reason and compassion when the Reptilian brain is less active. Human kind are not inherently violent and greedy, that is a dangerous meme.

As above, so below Meds. The only way you can ever effect change is by example. That holds for a Person, Peer group or State. This is why I hold the good signatories of this petition in high regard.
 
Ruanaidh said:
If you take the pressure and undue influence away from these groups they will die on the vine.
Click to expand...

How do you remove the influence of Iran?

Even if you agree with the complaints of the Palestinians, what I dont understand is this:

What have they achieved?

Sure you can say its a good exercise to get a kicking from the Israelis yet does that really matter? Only when the US puts pressure on them will anything happen. This sort of action would not seem to win them any plaudits in the US.

So why?

Or is it a cynical exercise to ensure Palestinian deaths so as to further the extremist strangehold?
 
medusala said:
How do you remove the influence of Iran?

Even if you agree with the complaints of the Palestinians, what I dont understand is this:

What have they achieved?

Sure you can say its a good exercise to get a kicking from the Israelis yet does that really matter? Only when the US puts pressure on them will anything happen. This sort of action would not seem to win them any plaudits in the US.

So why?

Or is it a cynical exercise to ensure Palestinian deaths so as to further the extremist strangehold?
Click to expand...
Mate, I'm in the process of making pancakes for the family. I'll get back to you on this one. I will say this however. Given the young, western influenced nature of their demographic Iran is poised to become the most democratic of the current Mid-East states. If only the bs propaganda regarding their intentions as a people was stopped and the US and Israel stopped undermining the country and threatening it. I may be wrong but wasn't there a shift towards the hard-liners in the last election bucking a trend in recent elections toward less fundamentalist candidates.
 
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