Iran - are they joining the club?

[GuruJane]

Originally Posted by just maybe

FFs, are you senile? How many times do you need it through your head that I'm talking about the POST GULF WAR PERIOD.

Well I am saying that you are wrong. I am saying it was around 1974 - 76 when the Kurds had a form of automony and I have provided back up evidence.

Please provide your evidence that it was Saddam who gave autonomy to the Kurds in the post Gulf War period.

Your comments about Saddam having an option for a land invasion of the Kurds in the 80s are ludicrous and I can't believe you mean them seriously.

[just maybe]

Originally Posted by GuruJane

Well I am saying that you are wrong. I am saying it was around 1974 - 76 when the Kurds had a form of automony and I have provided back up evidence.

Please provide your evidence that it was Saddam who gave autonomy to the Kurds in the post Gulf War period.

Your comments about Saddam having an option for a land invasion of the Kurds in the 80s are ludicrous and I can't believe you mean them seriously.

1992: After the setup of the no-fly zones in the North and South to protect the civil Iraqi population, the Allied forces make a security zone in the north of Iraq so that the refugees could return back. After that, the Kurds seize their area, set up an own government, start their own elections and draw autonomy borders.

1992 to 2003: The Kurds enjoy self-rule but heavy fighting erupts between the two main Kurdish factions. The KDP and the PUK almost commit political suicide in fighting in 1994, 1996 and 1997. In 1999 the two parties agree to a cease-fire.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish_people


And Saddam had a deal with them to not attack his oil convoys in return for generally respecting their autonomy.

In your magic world, do you think the Kurds just took that deal despite the apparent fact (according to you) Saddam could not have attacked them in any way?

You're a fool, GuruJane.

Land warfare does not need to be backed up by air warfare. In case you don't get it. NO-FLY ZONE.

[GuruJane]

Originally Posted by just maybe

1992: After the setup of the no-fly zones in the North and South to protect the civil Iraqi population, the Allied forces make a security zone in the north of Iraq so that the refugees could return back. After that, the Kurds seize their area, set up an own government, start their own elections and draw autonomy borders.

Er, where does this mention Saddam giving the Kurds automony?
I only see reference to the Allied forces providing security cover?

1992 to 2003: The Kurds enjoy self-rule but heavy fighting erupts between the two main Kurdish factions. The KDP and the PUK almost commit political suicide in fighting in 1994, 1996 and 1997. In 1999 the two parties agree to a cease-fire.

Er, where does Saddam's autonomy for the Kurds get a mention here?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish_people

Going into your own source I can only find reference to the Kurds having automony courtesy of the Baathists in the 1970s.

And Saddam had a deal with them to not attack his oil convoys in return for generally respecting their autonomy.

Post the text that backs this up.

You're a fool, GuruJane.

Land warfare does not need to be backed up by air warfare. In case you don't get it. NO-FLY ZONE.

Er. Just Maybe. It was Saddam who couldn't fly in the no fly zone.

US and UK over flew all the time and regularly dropped missiles when Saddy attempted anti aircraft retaliation.

Enough of this bilge.

[just maybe]

Let's phrase it a different way, since you seem incapable of rational thought.

I'll make it very simple:

If there was no deal between Saddam and the Kurds, how did he get his oil trucks through without being attacked, and why did he leave the Kurds pretty much alone, after the Gulf War?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...urds/cron.html - 1996-99 might be of interest to you

[TheBloods]

Let me just point out one thing - in modern warfare air support is exceptionally important. The use of helicopter gunships was essential for Saddam to put down the rebellion immediately after the Gulf War. This was a loophole in the initial no-fly zone allowed by Schwarzkopf.

I'd also note the oil truck convoy was allowed through because the Kurds would essentially buy the oil from Baghdad and onsell it at a profit to Turkey. Sometimes you need to deal with the devil when you need the money, and all three parties needed finance.

[just maybe]

It's odd how GuruJane disappears when challenged to answer the problem simply, which wouldn't allow her to make her long-winded excuses about nothing.

[GuruJane]

Originally Posted by NMWBloods

Let me just point out one thing - in modern warfare air support is exceptionally important.

Yes, it's a matter of plain commonsense apart from anything else!

[Frodo]

Originally Posted by CharlieG

Or is it just your pro-US, prejudiced bias kicking in?

more like.......

Or is it just your anti-US, prejudiced bias kicking in?

[just maybe]

Originally Posted by GuruJane

Yes, it's a matter of plain commonsense apart from anything else!

It's generally pretty stupid to misquote someone's post when it's on the same page of the thread. Cutting out the fact that he mentioned helicopter gunships as a means of ground support and avoiding the no-fly zoone kind of makes you look stupid, again.

[JavaBlue]

Any news on the election results? Has Iran joined the club? Is GW's slogan of Infinitie Justice or Years from Freedom or whatever it was, still on track?

[Qsaint]

Originally Posted by JavaBlue

Any news on the election results? Has Iran joined the club? Is GW's slogan of Infinitie Justice or Years from Freedom or whatever it was, still on track?

Yes there is, they elected a hardliner because Rastifani is too liberal, ultra orthodox, pro nuclear, detests the US and Democracy. Gee US diplomacy by simpletons is working beautifully.

"We did not have a revolution to have a democracy," he said.

Hardliner wins Iran election in landslide
June 25, 2005 - 2:46PM

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Top job ... Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on polling day.
Photo: Reuters
Ultra-conservative Tehran mayor Mahmoud Ahmadinejad swept to a landslide win in presidential elections today, spelling a possible end to Iran's fragile social reforms and tentative rapprochement with the West.

Ahmadinejad, 48, won the backing of the religious poor to defeat veteran political heavyweight Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani, who was supported by pro-reform parties and wealthy Iranians fearful of a hardline monopoly on power in the Islamic state.

"The figures show that Ahmadinejad is the winner," Interior Ministry spokesman Jahanbakhsh Khanjani told reporters.

He will be Iran's first non-cleric president for 24 years when he takes office in August.

An official at the Guardian Council, which must approve the election results, said that out of 24.8 million votes counted, Ahmadinejad had 61.7 per cent, defying forecasts of a tight race.

Officials said turnout was about 26 million, or 56 per cent, down from the 63 per cent of Iran's 46.7 million eligible voters who cast ballots in an inconclusive first round on June 17.

"It's over, we accept that we've lost," said a close aide to Rafsanjani, who was president from 1989 to 1997.

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AdvertisementAlthough Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei has the last word on all matters of state, a hardline presidency removes the moderating influence on decision-making exercised by outgoing reformist President Mohammad Khatami since 1997.

"This all but closes the door for a breakthrough in US-Iran relations," said Karim Sadjadpour, Tehran-based analyst for the International Crisis Group.

Washington broke ties with Iran in 1980 and now accuses it of developing nuclear weapons and supporting terrorism. Iran, the world's fourth-largest oil producer, denies the charges.

"I think Ahmadinejad is less amenable to compromise on the nuclear issue, but it is unclear how much influence he will have on it," said Sadjadpour.

The result was a crushing blow to Rafsanjani, 70, who has been at the forefront of Iranian politics since the 1979 Islamic revolution and was widely considered Iran's second most powerful figure before the vote. His last venture to the polls in 2000 parliamentary elections also ended in failure.

Rafsanjani voters said they feared Ahmadinejad would reverse modest reforms made under Khatami that allow women to dress in brighter, skimpier clothes and couples to fraternise in public without fear of arrest.

Washington repeated accusations that the vote was unfair due to the disqualification of more than 1,000 hopeful candidates.

"With the conclusion of the election in Iran, we have seen nothing that dissuades us from our view that Iran is out of step with the rest of the region and the currents of freedom and liberty that have been so apparent in Iraq, Afghanistan and Lebanon," State Department spokeswoman Joanne Moore said.

"These elections were flawed from their inception by the decision of an unelected few to deny the applications of over a thousand candidates, including all 93 women," she said.

"We will judge the regime by its actions. In light of the way these elections were conducted, however, we remain sceptical that the Iranian regime is interested in addressing either the legitimate desires of its own people, or the concerns of the broader international community," Moore said.

Supreme Leader Khamenei banned victory celebrations after a fractious campaign marred by allegations of dirty tricks.

Aides to Rafsanjani had accused the hardline Basij militia of intimidating voters to back Ahmadinejad. The Interior Ministry also complained of illegal election-day campaigning.

Reuters, AFP

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/har...321932781.html

'Robin Hood' wins hearts of Iran's poor
June 25, 2005 - 2:08PM

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Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the hardliner who will become Iran's president in August, is hailed by the devout poor as a Robin Hood figure who will give them a slice of the Islamic Republic's abundant oil wealth.

In a campaign where most candidates made glossy Western-style appeals to the young and discussed issues such as restoring ties with the United States, Ahmadinejad fought a campaign stressing the values of the 1979 Islamic revolution.

"We did not have a revolution to have a democracy," he said.

Tehran mayor since 2003, Ahmadinejad is a former member of the hardline Revolutionary Guard and an ex-instructor of the Basij religious vigilantes, sparking fears he will draw on old military comrades as cabinet colleagues.

Before the first round of voting on June 17, few gave Ahmadinejad, the most hardline of the seven original candidates, much of a hope of winning.

But his campaign broadcasts cast him as a man of the people, attending to the needs of the elderly, poor and war-wounded while rebuffing wealthy opportunists trying to circumvent regulations to make a quick profit.

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AdvertisementThe blacksmith's son joined workmen sweeping the streets of Tehran after he became mayor. He plays on his humble origins and has vowed to distribute the oil wealth of OPEC's second biggest producer more directly to the people.

"I am proud of being the Iranian nation's little servant and street sweeper," Ahmadinejad said when he cast his ballot. "Today is the beginning of a new political era."

His municipality has brought in youthful management teams and tried to combat choking traffic in the capital city of 14 million people.

But some Tehranis complain Ahmadinejad replaced cultural centres with prayer halls and enforced sex segregation in municipal elevators.

His municipality also raised eyebrows by banning advertising hoardings that showed the bare legs of England footballer David Beckham.

Ahmadinejad has said relations with the United States are not a cure to Iran's ills. Analysts say his victory could dim prospects of solving a dispute over Iran's nuclear program that Washington says is aimed at building atomic weapons.

"Access to nuclear technology is Iran's inalienable right and the world ought to recognise these rights," he has said.

Tehran says its atomic technology will be used only for power generation, not to make bombs.

Ahmadinejad is allied to parliament's Abadgaran conservative faction that has helped block major foreign investment and demanded the government restart making atomic fuel, a move that rekindled fears about Iran's nuclear ambitions.

Ahmadinejad was born in the farming village of Aradan, 100 km south-east of Tehran, but moved to the capital in his early childhood.

He was a bright student, took a doctorate in civil engineering and went on to lecture on the subject.

In the 1990s he was governor of Ardebil, a religiously conservative city in northwest Iran, where he had to deal with floods and a devastating earthquake.

In his home village, his common touch has won hearts.

"They asked him once whether he would live in a palace when he became president," said his cousin Massoumeh Sabbaghian.

"He replied that he would, but only when every other Iranian had a palace of their own."

Reuters

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/rob...321935175.html

[GuruJane]

Originally Posted by JavaBlue

Any news on the election results? Has Iran joined the club?

They sure have.

[just maybe]

Originally Posted by GuruJane

They sure have.

The club has a pretty broadly defined membership charter then...

[JavaBlue]

Originally Posted by just maybe

The club has a pretty broadly defined membership charter then...

It is. It's called the neo-con club. The trouble is conservatism is not universal and applies only to one's particular backyard. Therefore they can be in the same club but radically opposed to each other.

[MightyFighting]

Originally Posted by GuruJane

They sure have.

OK, they've joined the club. Now we just have to figure out what the club is.


Perhaps it's the club of countries that have voted not to be a democracy.

Iran, Nazi Germany...