Matthew Leuenberger will be a Don, and why?

Mattlowry · Nov 13, 2006

navier-stokes equation said:
Are Essendon fans concerned about the age of their forward line?

Not having a go, but given you have no real CHF coming through would this make you pick Gumbleton ahead of Hansen if they were rated similarly.

Do the club have faith in Lee and Bradley for key defensive spots?

I rate Hansen slightly ahead of Gumbleton but I'm not sold that Essendon has the key forwards spots sewn up for the future

Not concerned in the slightest..

Lucas and Lloyd both have a few good years ahead of them so there is no really urgant need there

We have Hille, Johns, Neagle, Laycock, Ryder, Bradley who can occupy tall spots in the forward line.. I dont know about Neagle yet, i can see alot of potential in Johns and Hille has shown he can hold down a forward possy. Ryder was drafted as a key forward/ruckman but it will be interesting to see how he turns out. Im pretty excited about him. Bradley i think is capable of holding down a key forward possie, not a key back possie. That said i think he is far better on the wing.

Our backline though is.... very thin.. I dont even think we really need gumbleton.

We need Hansen more than anyone but i wouldnt be too annoyed if we got Luey..

wazzabp · Nov 13, 2006

navier-stokes equation said:
Are Essendon fans concerned about the age of their forward line?

Not having a go, but given you have no real CHF coming through would this make you pick Gumbleton ahead of Hansen if they were rated similarly.

Do the club have faith in Lee and Bradley for key defensive spots?

I rate Hansen slightly ahead of Gumbleton but I'm not sold that Essendon has the key forwards spots sewn up for the future

The age of our forward line is not really a concern, Lloyd and Lucas are 28/29 so theres a few years left in them yet, but we do have Johns making inroads along with some good small forwards also. There is a couple of drafts to go in the time to grab another couple of good forwards yet. I'd say after this season we would start to be looking at our options then.
I'd also say that Andrew Lee will be a very handy CHB option, he had a problem with OP in 2005 so hes just starting to learn the trade. We do need to find a position for Kepler Bradley, I'd say he would be a good half forward/wing option with pinch hits in the ruck if needed depending on our structure. Hes still learning so I doubt the club would lose faith in him.
I do think our backline is the biggest issue atm, we do need a CHB/FB before any other position, as Fletcher is 31. When hes out of the side it leaves a huge hole down there, particularly when we don't have an experienced CHB, so that leaves CHB and FB very vulnerable.
I really feel that the backline needs to be made rock solid first and foremost, which will give the midfielders a bit more confidence to play more instinctively, knowing if they do turn the ball over they do have a bit more cover.
Most great sides do have rocxk solid backlines, so I reckon thats the most important area to focus on when starting to build a side, as top line key backmen are hardest to come by.

Monkeyboy · Nov 13, 2006

Lloyd and Lucas are still pretty young 5-6 more years of footy and a flag or two for both.
Bombers will go for Leuy and take two quality mids that will still be around with are picks 2 and 3.
I think people will be very suprised with what still will be around between picks 15-30. Plenty of guys who have the potential to be as good as those who will be picked top 10.
Exciting times for teams with 3 picks in the top 20. Very exciting!!!!!

HBF · Nov 13, 2006

Monkeyboy said:
Lloyd and Lucas are still pretty young 5-6 more years of footy and a flag or two for both.
Bombers will go for Leuy and take two quality mids that will still be around with are picks 2 and 3.
I think people will be very suprised with what still will be around between picks 15-30. Plenty of guys who have the potential to be as good as those who will be picked top 10.
Exciting times for teams with 3 picks in the top 20. Very exciting!!!!!

IIRC, I thought I heard that Lucas was turning 29 during the preseason, whiich would mean he'd have maybe 4 years left in him.

Without checking, i'm not sure how old Lloydy is, but with his serious hammy injury, i'm not sure how many years past 30 he would be able to play, considering he needs his strength in his legs to play at FF.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see him play for years to come as he is one the of the AFL's elite players and we all wanna see him out there, I just wonder how much this injury will hinder the back end of this career.

Monkeyboy · Nov 13, 2006

HugeBluesFan said:
IIRC, I thought I heard that Lucas was turning 29 during the preseason, whiich would mean he'd have maybe 4 years left in him.

Without checking, i'm not sure how old Lloydy is, but with his serious hammy injury, i'm not sure how many years past 30 he would be able to play, considering he needs his strength in his legs to play at FF.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see him play for years to come as he is one the of the AFL's elite players and we all wanna see him out there, I just wonder how much this injury will hinder the back end of this career.

All reasonable points HBF. I guess it is a little bit of wait and see with Lloydy. And perhaps i may have been getting a little excited with the 5-6 years, rather than the more conservative 3-4. However i read somewhere that Lucas once shared a bottle of water with Craig Bradley and then had a bite of Michael Tucks sandwich. So who knows what may have rubbed off on him.

I still think we will take Leuy and will pick up 2 guns with 18 and 20. As you would know with some of the lists being compiled here, there will be some great gets around the 18 and 20 picks!

Can't wait!

Bay Pie · Nov 13, 2006

I don't know. Some of you Bomber fans are extremely optomistic.

Johns, Laycock, Neagle and Ryder have all showed very little. Yes, their all young and had limited opportunities, so I wouldn't be banking on these guys all becoming good players.

Most likely servicable.

Servicable doesn't win flags in the key midfield area.

Hille is a good ruckman but hardly a match winner.

blumfieldisback · Nov 13, 2006

Longy413 said:
He has a way to go, but why would we develop Hille as a FF when we have Johns there?
If we are going to develop someone to play the FF position, surely Johns would get first crack at it.

Johns is a good mark and a good kick. Quick off the mark and he's strong. Needs to get his fitness base up, he's not sure thing, but he's got talent.

a fit johns will be more then serviceable for us, a great mark his kicking is improving. I think they will push lloyd out to chf in the ilk of barry hall.

not to longy

Now in regards to this thread, Hille at FF?? umm i dont think so buddy, he is so much better when he pinch hits there to strectch oppositions defences. When he rucked for us this year we won more ball out of the centre, when he went forward we got smashed.

As for ryder being more of a forwrad, pffft, r u kidding me. The only upside i saw in this kid was his ability to tap, he needs to improve his urgency to be a forward. Maybe once he bulks up and gets some confidence will we reap the benefits of him being a good tap ruckman.

laycock second stringer at best? watch carefully mate when he puts in a full pre-season and remains injury free. most ruckman dont mature until ther 25 plus. matty primus was a great example of this, as was peter everitt who i compare laycock too.

we dont need leunberger, he will be a force however in years to come, we need gumby or hansen and id prefer gumbys upside because he could play chf whereas hansen failed in that same possy.

Longy413 · Nov 13, 2006

HugeBluesFan said:
IIRC, I thought I heard that Lucas was turning 29 during the preseason, whiich would mean he'd have maybe 4 years left in him.

Lucas does turn 29 next month.

If he plays another four years we have at least three years to draft his replacement?

And we already have Johns, Neagle, Ryder, Laycock on the list. Andrew Lee has also shown signs up forward. And why would we pigeonhole Hansen anyway, there is every chance he could end up a CHF.

HugeBluesFan said:
Without checking, i'm not sure how old Lloydy is, but with his serious hammy injury, i'm not sure how many years past 30 he would be able to play, considering he needs his strength in his legs to play at FF.

Lloyd turns 29 early next season.

Lloyd didn't tear his hammy, he tore the tendon. There is less chance of the injury happening again than there is of it happening in the first place. It heals stronger than it was originally.

The danger comes in loss of mobility, agility, movement. That hasn't happened.

The injury will make no impact on his playing future or the length of his career unless if effects him mentally. But he's better than that.

Longy413 · Nov 13, 2006

Bay Pie said:
Johns, Laycock, Neagle and Ryder have all showed very little. Yes, their all young and had limited opportunities, so I wouldn't be banking on these guys all becoming good players.

At this stage, they have all (Neagle excluded) shown more than Gumbleton or Leuenberger.

Bay Pie said:
Hille is a good ruckman but hardly a match winner.

You're struggling. Hille's greatest asset is that he's a match winner.
His biggest weakness is that he doesn't do it often enough.

Crow-mo · Nov 14, 2006

www.dictionary.com

use it to look up "fact". it'll be the first, albeit small, step to getting you a proper education.

Mattlowry · Nov 14, 2006

I think some of my fellow bomber supporters are really being quite deluded that if they should be licking their lips at the prospect of getting some decent midfielders and a gun ruckman.

Our midfield does need some more speed and quality but we have youngsters coming through that could provide us with that. Our two key forwards are old but we have youngsters coming through who could provide us with options for that. We have a number of young ruckman and our current ruckman is young so im not worried at all in that area.

But the question remains, who will fill the gaping holes we have in that shambles which barely resembles a defence? I dont think Bradley is up to it, i have made my view on this abundantly clear in a number of threads. Fletcher is getting on. Lee may come through, but still we really dont have enough going for us back there. Even when we played some decent football this year it was our defence which cost us. It was the worst in the league.

Bombs Away · Nov 14, 2006

wazzabp said:
You really have little knowledge of the players you mentioned.

Fact 1- We drafted a ruckman with our first pick last year, and we do have Hille and Laycock also.

Fact 2-Ryder has played buggar all footy and is still developing, but you are right in one way as most ruckman do rest on the forward line anyway.
He will play mostly in the ruck though as that what he was drafted for.

Fact 3- Where is the evidence to suggest that Hille is being "groomed as a FF?

Fact 4-Laycock will be a pretty good ruckman when he gets an injury free run, don't judge him too harshly just yet, hes only 22. Most ruckman hit their peak around 25-27.

Fact 5- This guy has a long way to go yet, so put your pecker away.

Fact 6 We have a 200cm giant on our rookie list name McKinnon

Fact 7 On our NSW rookie list we have 2 196cm plus 16 year old kids. Our ruck stocks potentialy the best for years to come

oooze · Nov 14, 2006

yeh Lachlan Mckinnon is 206cm and is extremely agile.

whirl · Nov 14, 2006

Bombs Away said:
Fact 6 We have a 200cm giant on our rookie list name McKinnon

Fact 7 On our NSW rookie list we have 2 196cm plus 16 year old kids. Our ruck stocks potentialy the best for years to come

Careful how you use the word fact. Fact 7 is wrong. We have one kid who is 197, and one who is 180. And they were talking about hoping to develop the tall kid as a backman, plus they're extremely speculative so they don't impact on decision making for the senior list.

Nightwolf · Nov 14, 2006

It would make sense. Laycock is an ordinary footballer..

still chasing amy · Nov 14, 2006

Nightwolf_69 said:
It would make sense. Laycock is an ordinary footballer..

Yep he sure aint no Cartledge.

Its too soon to tell, I watched the 2005 Anzac game on foxtel last week (2006 was that depressing!!) and Laycock was great for most of the match. He has to get his body right and up the ante a bit with his work ethic before any decision is made whether he is good or ordinary.

DaSawx · Nov 14, 2006

Nightwolf_69 said:
It would make sense. Laycock is an ordinary footballer..

that's crap

daics cousin · Nov 14, 2006

If you guys don't pick gumbelton or hanson,in your first round and go for leuemberger you will regret it.Gumby or hanson are ready made guns,ready to go.plus your side desperately needs to fill holes down back and forward.What happens if lloyd goes down again in round 2 or three 3 next year.Or if you lose Fletcher,hanson and gumby will fill those holes easily.may be young but both will be guns.Leuemberger is also a great player,but will take 2-3 years to develop into a number 1 ruckman.You have the cattle to cover your ruck options....Actually on second thought maybe you should pick up leuemberger and let gumby or hanson slip to maybe pick 8 or 10? Thank you...............................

Z_K · Nov 14, 2006

Nightwolf_69 said:
It would make sense. Laycock is an ordinary footballer..

His biggest problem is between the ears. He has ability. Very athletic and looks a natural ruckman considering his age. But I have heard bad reports about his commitment and work ethic. But that can be turned around.

He can play.

Longy413 · Nov 14, 2006

NorthBhoy said:
His biggest problem is between the ears. He has ability. Very athletic and looks a natural ruckman considering his age. But I have heard bad reports about his commitment and work ethic. But that can be turned around.

You're pretty spot on there, early indications this pre-season are that he has turned it around.

Z_K · Nov 14, 2006

Longy413 said:
You're pretty spot on there, early indications this pre-season are that he has turned it around.

Very early. But it's better than the alternative.

McIntosh had the same problem. His commitment to recovery from injury was terrible. His work rate in pre-season just non-existant. Laidley rode him, H finally snapped out of his rut and his season just flowed from there. Was covering more ground in a quarter in the AFL than he was in 2 VFL games only 12 months before. Had a really good season. On track to be the player he should be given his ability.

Both are 4 years off their peak.

Bay Pie · Nov 14, 2006

Longy413 said:
At this stage, they have all (Neagle excluded) shown more than Gumbleton or Leuenberger.

Yes, they have shown more then any draftee. Good work Einstein.

[/quote]You're struggling. Hille's greatest asset is that he's a match winner.
His biggest weakness is that he doesn't do it often enough.[/quote]

Name a few games he has won of his own back. Or are you indicating he is a potential match winner.

Potentially you could win 4 flags in a row. Chance of this happening, Zip (Chance of Lloyd playing in another flag, very slim).

Match winners:Lucas, LLoyd, Hird. Hille??????????? me thinks not.

If you think you have the list to challenge in a fews years your deluded. But good for all the other teams that realise they aren't up to it and are choosing to rebuild now. More years of finishing bottom of the 8 at best.

Pies finished 5th end of H&A and 7th Overall but we realise we're not up to it and are rebuilding.

waspy · Nov 14, 2006

Bay Pie said:
Name a few games he has won of his own back. Or are you indicating he is a potential match winner.

Had a cracker of a game against the Pies in 04 (not ANZAC day, the other one). Beat Fraser hands down.
Brilliant last quarter against the Dees in 04 QF, turned the contest and won us that game.
Three goals and 20+ hitouts and possesions against the Lions this year, won us that game, won plenty of admirers too by helping Charman after his injury. Just three examples.

daveyboy3 · Nov 14, 2006

[/quote]You're struggling. Hille's greatest asset is that he's a match winner.
His biggest weakness is that he doesn't do it often enough
Name a few games he has won of his own back. Or are you indicating he is a potential match winner..[/quote]

2004 elimination final agaisnt melbourne- Hille kicked 3 late goals in final term, essendon win by 5 points.

Longy413 · Nov 14, 2006

Bay Pie said:
Yes, they have shown more then any draftee. Good work Einstein.

Which makes your whole point rather redundant.

Bay Pie said:
Name a few games he has won of his own back. Or are you indicating he is a potential match winner.

The three that automatically come to mind are -

Round 4, 2003 - Essendon v Western Bulldogs.
Took Darcy to the cleaners, kicked four goals, 22 disposals. 3 Brownlow votes.

Elimination Final, 2004 - Essendon v Melbourne.
As has already been mentioned. Turned the game for us. Yep, David Hille has been a match winner in a final.

Round 16, 2006 - Essendon v Brisbane.
22 disposals, 3 goals, 22 hitouts. Lone hand in the ruck. Hird was outstanding that night, Hille was just as good.

Bay Pie said:
Match winners:Lucas, LLoyd, Hird. Hille??????????? me thinks not.

After Fletcher and probably Lloyd, David Hille is our third most important player.

Bay Pie said:
If you think you have the list to challenge in a fews years your deluded.

I didn't say that, don't put words in my mouth.
Thanks.

I don't know what our list will be like for the next few years, I won't make predictions on 2008, 2009 and beyond.

Bay Pie said:
Pies finished 5th end of H&A and 7th Overall but we realise we're not up to it and are rebuilding.

What does this have to do with Collingwood?
I care very little about what you think of your side.

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