Quicky's list, draft and trade talk thread

I know this is probably a bit premature but I thought I’d start a thread where we can put all our list, draft and trade talk. I’m really hoping that this can be a comprehensive look at our list and its future direction as we push for a premiership. I’m not pretending to be an expert here so if anyone sees any facts that I may have gotten wrong feel free to let me know so I can change them. I have also purposely left out any opinions/suggestions on particular draftees (for the moment) as I am not a dedicated draft watcher. For any of the draft watchers out there it would be great to get some of your input in this thread. It has taken a fair amount of time to put this all together so I hope you all like it - and apologies in advance for its length.

It is an interesting time in the clubs history. Over the last five years Mick Malthouse, Derek Hine and our football department has put together one of the youngest, most exciting and promising lists in the competition. We have recently organised a unique and innovative deal which has secured the services Michael Malthouse and Nathan Buckley at the club for the next five years. We are presently sitting outright third on the ladder, will likely finish the season as a top four side, and are one of the most in form sides in the competition as we are about to enter the 2009 finals series.

Yet despite all the progress that we have made since 2004 we are still not up to the standard of the benchmark teams – StKilda and Geelong this year – in the competition. We can expect some of this gap to close as our young list gains greater experience and maturity. However, our list still has some concerning weaknesses, and there is always room for improvement. The ultimate success of this team may well be determined by how successful we are in the next 2 or 3 draft and trade periods – periods which will be complicated by the upcoming compromised drafts.
As such, some important questions need be answered:

- How do we best approach the upcoming 2009/10 draft period??
- Where do we need to improve our list??
- Who should we target in the draft??
- Who should we target in trade (if any)??
- Who on our list needs to be delisted??
- How should we approach the upcoming compromised draft years??

Our list:

I wanted to post our complete player list but was having trouble. If you want to have a look you can check it out here:

http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/players/tabid/8166/default.aspx

Overview:

Our list at the moment is very settled. Derek Hine has done a fantastic job of getting us back within premiership contention since 2003 when we essentially started a complete re-build of our list. There are no glaring deficiencies on the list, but there is certainly room for improvement. Our biggest concerns would have to the replacement of our ageing stars in Presti and to a lesser extent Rocca. A lot of the rest will come down to how our current players develop and how successful we are in the upcoming drafts. The best way to pinpoint our list deficiencies is to look at the list we have – to do this I’ve broken our list up into our backline, midfield, forward line and ruck and have reviewed each areas strengths and weaknesses and what deficiencies we may need to address.

Back line:

Our backline has become a real strength of our team. On paper it looks a little brittle but the sum of its parts are stronger than any individual within it. Presti forms the nucleus of what has really become a dynamic and versatile mix of players in a backline which can adapt to any forward structure in the league. Presti and Nathan Brown form a solid spine. O’Brien and Toovey provide a great deal of versatility with the ability to shut down both smalls and tall leading forwards. Maxwell provides enormous leadership in a sweeper role which really tightens our defense. Shaw provides most of our drive off the HBF, but is also a very competent defender, and is good at dropping into the space of leading forwards. Goldsack gives us a player that can match up on the oppositions more athletic talls. Our depth is also quite good. Reid is knocking the door down at VFL level for a spot at CHB, and may well move past Nathan Brown next year if his form and progress continues. Leigh Brown has proven himself to be a competent bits part player as a pinch hit KPD. Blight has shown great form in the twos and may add a new dimension to our backline if he can break into the seniors – with his height and offensive skills. Overall we have a very good mix of players in defense.

Draft/Trade needs:

The biggest concern in our backline would have to be the age of Prestigiacomo. I would imagine the big fella would have 1 or 2 years at the most before he retires. This is a huge concern as he is just so important to our team. Leigh Brown is hardly a long term option. Brown and Reid are our future FB CHB combo but behind them we really don’t have any options. Goldsack, Blight and Reed all have the height to play as KPD but it would be highly doubtful – at least in the next 2-3 years – that they could hold down a KP in defense. In essence I think we need to recruit a KPD planning for Presti’s retirement. While I’m very confident of Reid and Brown at the very least they will need some back-up in the event of injuries. If we recruit a KPD this year it would give him hopefully 1 or 2 years in the VFL before we need to use him.
The other area of concern would have to a BP. Toovey has been great this year however his skill errors can be very costly for the team. Ideally we would want someone who can shut down their opponent while also providing drive from defense – think Johncock from Adelaide. On our list we may see Shaw move into a BP role with Blight at HBF, or even Macaffer as an option. It is probably a better idea to find the solution to this problem from within our list than specifically drafting for a player like this.


Midfield:

Our midfield – for a long time the Achilles heel of our side – is finally standing up to be among the most dangerous in the competition. With Swan, Pendlebury, Didak, Davis and O’Bree we have a fantastic core group of players. We also have quality depth with Thomas, Beams, McCarthy, Sidebottom, Wellingham and Clarke – and importantly all these players are young. The most exciting aspect of our midfield group is the scope for improvement in our younger players. They have all shown the ability to be quality AFL standard midfielders and when they gain greater experience and maturity should form the core of a very good midfield. O’Bree, Swan and Pendlebury form a hardened unit of clearance midfielders ably supported by Wellingham, Beams and in the future Sidebottom and McCarthy. Didak and Davis provide a real polish and class to the midfield and are backed up by Thomas who will hopefully be able to play a more permanent midfield role as he develops. What this group really lacks is a shut down tagger. This is a big hole in our midfield as we are consistently cut up by the opposition’s most damaging midfielders. Our midfield has also at times lacked a physical toughness and hardness that the best sides contain – perhaps due to the inexperience of some of our players.

Draft/Trade needs:

The biggest concern in our midfield is the lack of a tagger. We really need to find a tight shut down tagger, preferably with a physical edge and decent disposal skills. The question is should we specifically target one in the draft/trade period or should we look within our list? From our list likely candidates are Barham, Clarke and Francis. Barham looks like he will be cursed with poor disposal skills his whole career and unless he can fix them probably shouldn’t be in the side. Francis is still young but has the toughness and speed to be a good tagger but he is still very much an untried player at senior level. Clarke has all the attributes to be a great tagger except he lacks a yard of pace which limits him to certain players – quicker players may well carve him up. The other option is to use someone like Beams or McCarthy in a tagging role.
We also have a need for a quick line breaking midfielder with good disposal skills. Davis and Didak are playing this role for us presently but they are both in their late 20’s so it would be good to plan for the future. If we could find a quality player in this mould it may mean we can release one of those two back into a permanent forward role. Outside of Thomas and Rounds we don’t have anyone on our list that fits this type of player.

Forward line:

On paper our forward line looks very dangerous, yet it has really failed to function this year. This is partly explained by the more permanent moves of Didak and Davis into the midfield as well as the poor form of Medhurst and Cloke at times this year. Despite this we have still been able to kick winning scores but more as a result of the even contribution of the team than because of a firing forward line. Cloke is working his way into some good form but is still plagued by his poor kicking for goal, a fact which sees him spend more time on the wing than in the forward line. Anthony has really stepped up and proven that he is a genuine full forward. Lockyer and Dick have chimed in with some good cameos as small forwards and Thomas has been kept in a developmental defensive forward role. The concern in the forward line is its lack of a tall forward. Cloke isn’t playing this role, Anthony looks outsized at times, Dawes is still developing and Rocca and Rusling continue to be injury plagued.

Draft/Trade needs:

With Roccas imminent retirement the obvious need in the forward line has to be a KPF. This is compounded by question marks over the fitness of Rusling; Dawes ability to be an AFL standard footballer; and the form of Travis Cloke. What we really need is a player who can take a big contested mark in pressure situations – and who is a decent kick for goal. That would take a lot of pressure off Anthony to be a key target all the time as well as concerns over Clokes kicking for goal.

Ruck:

This is another area of our team that has been a weakness for us. Earlier in the year there were major question marks over the future of our ruck division. Fraser was rucking alone and the strain seemed was showing, and Wood didn’t seem able to hold down a spot in the 22. The injury to Fraser has been somewhat fortunate as it has given Wood an extended run in the seniors. Wood really seems to have grown with the responsibility and should be the future of our ruck looking forward. With Keefe progressing well and Witts likely to be drafted at the end of next year we should only really look at drafting a ruck if they are either a stand out or have scope to play in a KP up forward and down back as well.

Draft/Trade needs:

Despite Woods recent promising form it still remains to be seen whether he can keep it up over an extended period of time, and what effect if any Frasers return to the team will have on his form. It may be a smart idea to trade for an established ruckman for depth as Wood continues to develop and also as a contingency plan if he doesn’t continue to progress. I think this may be a bit unnecessary given Woods form, and Witts as a NSW rookie but our history suggests this is an area of our team we shouldn’t be careless with.

Delistings:

I know there have been a few threads on this lately but it is an important topic of the list to discuss. Taking into account that this draft is considered weak and we already have a relatively strong list I very much doubt we will see mass delistings this year. As it stands we are required to draft 3 players in the upcoming draft and will need to find room for Reed on our rookie list. The following players will either retire or be in trouble of delisting at season’s end:

Retire: Rocca
Delist: Bryan, Stanley, Cook, Corrie, Thoolen

Rocca will almost certainly retire. Bryan may be kept on the list until we draft Witts but if we decide to draft a ruckman this year he may be delisted. Cook, Stanley and Corrie have offered the team very little this year and are the most likely to be delisted. Thoolen has improved slightly this year but from reports is still not up to the required standard. I’m not sure how many years he has on his rookie contract given we delisted him and re-recruited him last year but he would have to be a chance of getting delisted. Thoolen may be the player to make way for Reed depending on which rookies are elevated.

Compromised drafts & what it means to us:

With the Gold Coast and West Sydney entering the competition there will be a few lean years at the draft table for the rest of the competition. The fact that Collingwood has pieced together such a young, promising and generally well balanced list means that we have already done most of the hard work. It also puts greater emphasis on this year’s draft in particular on fixing any outstanding weaknesses on the list as it may be difficult to do so the year after.
I have always been a little bit confused about what impact the compromised drafts will have on us, so for the other posters out there who are as clueless as I was I’ll try to explain the draft rules for you (after all they will have a huge impact on the club):

2009: NAB AFL draft: In this year’s draft the Gold Coast has the right to sign 12 17yo (born January 1 – April 30 1992)

NAB Rookie draft: Gold Coast have picks 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5.

This isn’t too significant however it has diluted the draft pool this year a bit – and we all know how Hine loves those under agers as well as our success with rookie picks.

2010: NAB AFL draft: Gold Coast have picks 1, 2 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 26, 43

NAB Rookie draft: Gold Coast has access to the first selection.

As you can see this draft has pretty much been given to the Gold Coast. As it is unlikely we will finish bottom four our first pick will be something like a 2nd rounder in any other year. We will need to make our selections count.

For a more detailed run down of the Gold Coast draft rules try this thread:

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=578507

We will also have to go through this process again when West Sydney enter the competition, with rumours they are requesting to have two years like Gold Coasts 2010 draft. So as you can see we would be in a world of hurt right now had we not set ourselves up so well over the last 4 or so year’s. In a practical sense it also puts greater influence on the success of our NSW and International rookie selections.

Our rookies, NSW Scholarship holders and International rookie prospects:

Considering the compromised drafts the importance of our NSW and International rookies has become greater. It is a clever way we have been able to utilize the rules to help create a group of players we can draft during the compromised draft years. As such I thought I’d have a look at our NSW scholarship holders as well as our International rookie prospects and when we are eligible to draft them. Thanks to TRS for putting together most of this info on the FMW thread and helping explain some of the draft rules for me.

Our current rookie list:
Francis (1st of 2 years)
Blair (1st of 2 years)
Bennell (1st of 2 years)
Thoolen (1st of 2 years)
Keeffe (1st of 2 years)
Dyas (2nd of 3 years)
Reed (outside list for this year)

Eligible in 2010:
O'Kennedy (Irish)
Camilleri (NSW, outside rookie list)
McNamara (International, outside the rookie list)

Eligible in 2011:
Young (NSW, outside rookie list)
Perry (NSW, outside rookie list)
Witts (NSW, outside rookie list)
Cribbin (Irish)

Just to clarify some points on the rookie rules:

- We are allowed to have up to six rookie listed players on our list.
- NSW scholarship holders are outside our rookie list in their first year.
- International rookies are outside our list in their first year.
- Irish players do not qualify as an international rookie and take up one of the six positions on our rookie list.
- NSW scholarship holders, International rookies, Irish players and players that have not been registered with an AFL club for the last 3 years can be pre-selected by the club. This means we allocate a rookie pick to them and no other club can pick them – although we lose that pick obviously.

It will be important during the compromised draft years for the football department to keep their eyes on any promising players whether their Irish, NSW, or international to help keep our list strong. In particular I’d like to see us expand our scouts into some of the international areas which may not have been tapped yet. I believe we have a scout in South Africa so maybe one day we’ll see our first African rookie at Collingwood.

Draft Strategy:

I think it is highly unlikely we will chase any big signings this year. This is because very few big deals actually get done anymore, we don’t have the high draft picks to make them work, and any of our players that we could use to get a deal done we won’t want be willing to get rid of. The most likely scenario for us is to use the draft picks we have to continue to build our team through the draft. Having looked at our list I think the most important target for us is to get a versatile KP player. Someone we can develop into a genuine key position forward or defender depending on need. I think this player will need to have a good contested mark and decent disposal skills. Outside of this, and I know it is boring to say, it is simply a matter of drafting best available. We may also see some moves for some cheap established players that are either unwanted at their current clubs or who will come very cheap. Such players may be used to help to cover weak areas of our list such as a BP, tagger or outside midfielder.

That is brilliant Quicky. Great job.

I'm in agreeance. Can't see us being too active in trades this year and think we will target a ruck/forward and a KP or two in the draft since we stacked up on mids last year. Then obviously Josh Thomas and Claye Beams may be in the frame also.....

Cheers Well Left, nice to know someone enjoyed it

I think it is almost a given that we will try and get the best available KP player left in the draft with our first pick - which should be around pick 15 (going by our current ladder position anyway).

For the draft watchers out there who looks like a likely KP player that will be available at that pick??

A player I think we should really look at is Crowley form Freo. The one thing that our current team is really lacking is a tight tagger and Crowley fits the bill. He would provide some balance to our midfield group as we don't currently have a dedicated tagger. He would also add some much needed toughness, at 25 is the right age for our team and also has the versatility to play as a small defender. I think he is exactly the type of player we need. Freo may be willing to part with him as they are in a rebuilding phase and additional draft picks would be tempting. Crowley is also a Victorian so may want to come home and have a chance at a premiership with us.

What are your thoughts??

He'd certainly be an option to look at. I like his toughness and would round our midfield group out nicely. I still see a future for Barham in that role - he just needs some more time I think.

VFL reports suggest we have been playing Keeffe down back as part of his education which indicates to me we may want to look at another ruck or keep Bryan. I'd prefer another ruck.

A key defender / forward like Talia or a ruckman.

Don't have a problem with taking a Clay Beams type, and if he is anything like his brother then that is terrific, but outside of this, as far as midfielders goes, I would want Collingwood to try to draft in some more pace.

For the next ten years we will have inside mids Pendles, Beams, Sidebottom, and McCarthy (who are all pretty much assured of making it) who, for all their terrific qualities, don't really have breakaway pace. McCarthy is the quickest of them, but is still in the second notch down pacewise compared to some of the elite quick inside mids like Judd and Ablett.

On the outside midfield positiions, we have Wellingham who has above average pace but not lightning, and Barham, who has excellent pace but may not make it due to kicking.

It's interesting given the struggle that we have had structuring our forward line for most of the year what we will do in regards to key forwards in this years draft.

Cloke is a real catch 22 player for us - he isn't performing against smaller more mobile defenders at CHF and HFF - and similarly can be a liability at FF due to his terrible kicking for goal.

Anthony is undersized and often struggling as a full forward target. Don't get me wrong he has been great this year, but he is not the sort of player you can bomb the ball to and expect a contested mark.

Considering this - and the fact we are in our premiership window - is it worth making a play for Barry Hall at seasons end??

He would be able to provide us with a genuine presence at full forward. He can take contested marks, kick 50+ goals a season and take the pressure of Anthony and Cloke. He would give us a long target when we are are under pressure and just provide a real physical presence for our forward line.

Thinking about the difference that Dew made for Hawthorn last year: Is he worth the gamble for a premiership??

Imagine a forward line like this:

----Thomas----Anthony-----Cloke-----
-----Dick--------Hall------Medhurst---

He would likely cost a fourth + rounder or a PSD draft pick.

Thoughts??

King Woodie said:

A key defender / forward like Talia or a ruckman.

Don't have a problem with taking a Clay Beams type, and if he is anything like his brother then that is terrific, but outside of this, as far as midfielders goes, I would want Collingwood to try to draft in some more pace.

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I would love Talia - but looking at some of his vids it would be a miracle if he fell to us. He is exactly the sort of player we need. Really like the look of him - but yeah can't see it happening. Heres hoping for another Beams scenario

Looking some videos and reading about a few of the KPP in this years draft some guys we may look at are:

Jake Carlisle (Calder Cannons): Really like the look of him. Nice size, mobile, smart forward, with good hands and a good set shot for goal. Seems a really solid player. Plays mostly as a full forward. Could well be around at our pick and would be a good fit for our forward line.

Nathan Vardy (Gippsland Power): Tall ruckman, KPP around the 199-200cm mark. Very good in the ruck and a nice lead and mark in the forward line. Looks a bit like Tippett in style to me - but maybe not with same contested marking ability. Would be an interesting pick for us given we have Witts who seems a similar type player as NSW rookie but I really like the look of him.

Jake Fitzpatrick (Western Jets): 200+cm bean pole of a utility. Freakishly fast for his size and good below his knees. Really bad over head mark. Ok skills. Not sure what his best position is - doesn't look great in the ruck so probably forward or back. Doesn't seem to have the frame to become really big. I wasn't that impressed with him but going off limited footage.

Ben Griffiths (Eastern Rangers): Injury affected 198cm KPF. Quick for his size with good mobility, very strong mark, good below his knees, long right foot kick. Could be a Hine type pick thinking of McCarthy and Dawes who fell due to injury issues. Seems to fit our needs.

Could any of the draft watchers provide some more info or their opinions on these guys.

I was also working off the fact that Panos and Talia will likely be gone by our picks - although who knows come draft time.

You can check out some of the vids for these guys in this thread on the drafts and trading board if you are interested - some great work putting it together by Danog:

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=621411

gread read quicky.really enjoyed it

As ive said on another thread I think out biggest priority is a big forward.with the Jury out on dawes,Rocca basically finished and rus too undependable,I see this being our biggest deficency in the next few years

Agree that drafting KPP is a priority but pretty confident at the same time that Dawes will come good next year.

very comprehensive write up mate. kudos.


i've been thinking bout the bbbbb hall situation for a while actually, i'm warming to the idea...agree with the dew comparison.

jerry springer said:

gread read quicky.really enjoyed it

As ive said on another thread I think out biggest priority is a big forward.with the Jury out on dawes,Rocca basically finished and rus too undependable,I see this being our biggest deficency in the next few years

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Cheers mate Good to know people have enjoyed it.

But yeah I think we need to target a KPP that we see as having the versatility to play back and forward - but if pushed to choose i'd be leaning towards a forward. Not just because our list needs it but because the KPP in this draft seem to have better forwards. It's a shallow draft so I wouldn't be surprised to see us go best available if we weren't totally impressed with the KPP left at our pick.

PieBeast said:

Agree that drafting KPP is a priority but pretty confident at the same time that Dawes will come good next year.

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Dawes is a must keep given the balance of our list. I'm not as confident he will make - seems 50-50 at this stage. But yeah we really need to plan for the fact Rocca will retire and Dawes and the Rus may not make it for different reasons.

MightyQuinn said:

very comprehensive write up mate. kudos.


i've been thinking bout the bbbbb hall situation for a while actually, i'm warming to the idea...agree with the dew comparison.

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What do the 5 B's stand for??

But yeah I just think he'd be a good fit for us. I don't really care about his off-field stuff. Always respected him as a player and think he could make the difference for us. Could provide the forward structure Rocca used to for us.

Great work Quicky, interesting read.

I cannot agree on Barry Hall being an option, unless he plays for peanuts which he won't.

You have me interested in Crowley a little bit, he can fill a role in the team and he may be getting squeezed out a little at Freo.

Overall our list is really solid and there has been some great work in developing rookies and left field type players already. This is going to be vital in the next few years and most clubs are only starting to realise this and move on these players.

Rucks still make me nervous especially if Josh continues to have injury troubles. The way of the future is to have a smaller mobile ruck like Mitch Clark & Ryder. A player like this in the future could compliment Wood well in the ruck.

The only thing in the next few years that may be looked at is giving up a decent player for draft picks to Gold Coast & W/Sydney. This I am sure is going to happen a bit and give clubs a look in some of these tainted drafts. I beleive a player like Dale Thomas would be of interest to GC due to his profile and at the moment he is not really filling any specific role of importance.

4#Didak#4 said:

Great work Quicky, interesting read.

I cannot agree on Barry Hall being an option, unless he plays for peanuts which he won't.

You have me interested in Crowley a little bit, he can fill a role in the team and he may be getting squeezed out a little at Freo.

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I wouldn't be too concerned about what we paid Barry Hall as it would likely only be a year and gives us a shot at a premiership. with Roccas retirement we should have some free funds - alot of the younger guys would still not be on huge money yet anyway. I'd be more worried about what he'd cost us in terms of draft picks. A 3rd rounder might be pushing it in terms of price - actually any pick in the national draft - but i'd jump at him with a PSD pick.

Overall our list is really solid and there has been some great work in developing rookies and left field type players already. This is going to be vital in the next few years and most clubs are only starting to realise this and move on these players.

Rucks still make me nervous especially if Josh continues to have injury troubles. The way of the future is to have a smaller mobile ruck like Mitch Clark & Ryder. A player like this in the future could compliment Wood well in the ruck.

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Agree the left field picks are going to be important. It's interesting the rumours about that American ruckman. Maybe America is a good place to try and source some left field picks. There have got to be some good athletes that would suit AFL - but havn't made it in their chosen sport for a given reason - or would just prefer to have a crack at the AFL if they think it is a better opportunity.

It's an interesting point about mobile rucks - watching Everitt and Brennan running around in those roles. It's pretty much a prerequisite that a ruckman needs to be mobile and able to contribute around the ground. Fraser and Wood are a good combo in this regard. We also have Keefe who although tall is mobile (probably his best asset) and Witts although also tall is also reportedly very mobile. Thats not a bad group of future ruck options. But I agree we could use another - and considering our current options I think that we should recruit someone who can ruck but is equally competant in another position preferably forward. Vardy in the draft fits this criteria to a tee and is a good chance of being available at our pick. Griffiths who is predominantly a key forward also has the height at 198cm to play in the ruck (although i've got no idea about his actual ruck ability).

The only thing in the next few years that may be looked at is giving up a decent player for draft picks to Gold Coast & W/Sydney. This I am sure is going to happen a bit and give clubs a look in some of these tainted drafts. I beleive a player like Dale Thomas would be of interest to GC due to his profile and at the moment he is not really filling any specific role of importance.

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I'm not sure this is the best option for us unless it was a deal we couldn't refuse. We have a core group of players who are capable of a crack at the premiership so getting rid of players who we have put the time into developing and gaining experience and are about to peak might not be a smart move. On Thomas I think he has the flair, he is developing his defensive game, and is slowly working up a good fitness base he just needs to put all those elements together and he will be great for us. Given one of our needs is outside mids I wouldn't be getting rid of Thomas when he is yet to peak - and is showing signs of improvement. Players more likely to leave would fringe be players with potential like Cox or maybe Stanley. They might be good ways of getting some extra third rounders which could come in handy during the compromised drafts.

It's not going to be a strong draft so I say go for best available.

Delist Quicky's mate Anthony Corrie ASAP IMHO

tarrant wants to come back home should get him back

Coin_Toss said:

It's not going to be a strong draft so I say go for best available.

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Thats a strong possibility. We went best available in 2006 (I think it was) which was also considered a weak draft. We have no massively glaring deficiencies on the list - although given Roccas likely retirement and Prestis age one of draftees would have to be a KPP you'd think.

mrlukey69 said:

tarrant wants to come back home should get him back

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Tarrant is 29 and would likely cost a high pick. It would be better for us to draft for a KPP given Reids development - I have no doubt he can step into CHB and do well. If we were to looking to trade for a smokey KPD maybe Marcus Drum from Freo would be an option. Loads of talent, attitude problem maybe needs a new environment. Could probably get him cheap. Would prefer to rebuild through the draft though.

What do we think about Raines? He's out of Richmond.

Old Spice said:

What do we think about Raines? He's out of Richmond.

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Not required I would have thought.

As a depth player who will cost nothing in terms of trade he would be OK. But he is leaving Tigers to play senior not VFL footy - he simply would not get near our best 25-30 squad.

Quicky said:

Tarrant is 29 and would likely cost a high pick. It would be better for us to draft for a KPP given Reids development - I have no doubt he can step into CHB and do well. If we were to looking to trade for a smokey KPD maybe Marcus Drum from Freo would be an option. Loads of talent, attitude problem maybe needs a new environment. Could probably get him cheap. Would prefer to rebuild through the draft though.

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Agree with that Quicky. A shame we didn't convert Taz into a defender in the first place - as many of us had suggested by the way. However it all worked out for the best. Is too late for Taz now, but a number of clubs would certainly find him a good option.

Drum is interesting would have a look, but as with Taz the number of clubs looking at defenders like these is large so pushes up the price you would have to give up for them. Carlton will be all over Drum & Tarrant lining up for another easy Freo trade.

Lake is the elephant in the room when it comes to defenders - out of contract and get the feeling he is in the market. Worth considering but once again would be paying more than what he is worth in trades and salary - especially with Sydney in the market.

Best to develop our own.

Excellent thread, Quicky.

Just a very basic question - what's the difference between the draft and the Rookie draft? I've never see the distinction defined, so they might even be the same thing for all I know, I've been getting the impression that rookie-listed players are less talented, but that may have no foundation in reality.

As for Barry Hall - I'd say we'd just be buying into trouble. I'd be looking elsewhere.