Weight Training: For Beginners - Critique my program/Q & A

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`kURupT

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Jun 21, 2007
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australia
Hey guys,
I'm looking to start doing weights as soon as the season finishes. I have done weights on and off throughout my teen years with out any serious results. Im 19 years of age, 190cms tall and 80 kgs. Im rather skinny and just want to get a bit of size about me. I was just wondering if any of yous can suggest some sort of program or scehdule for the week that i could follow. I would also like to focus on getting more strength into my hips and thighs. I dont really know all the gym jargon such as dropsets and reps.

anything will be appreciated
 

Oberfuhrer Abetz

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Jun 25, 2009
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Re: Weight Training Program

Hey guys,
I'm looking to start doing weights as soon as the season finishes. I have done weights on and off throughout my teen years with out any serious results. Im 19 years of age, 190cms tall and 80 kgs. Im rather skinny and just want to get a bit of size about me. I was just wondering if any of yous can suggest some sort of program or scehdule for the week that i could follow. I would also like to focus on getting more strength into my hips and thighs. I dont really know all the gym jargon such as dropsets and reps.

anything will be appreciated
As you are still relatively new I would stick with the basics, check out rippetoe or bill starr 5 x 5 based programs. But if your not a fan of following a set program just go find the big guys in your gym and workout with them. Even if they follow some *ed bodybuilding program from M&F the most important factors imo are hard work and food.
If you are more keen on the sports performance side of things go check kelly baggett's and charlie francis's sites.
Strength & Conditioning coaches from the A League, AFL and high level T&F all have posted in the past on charlie's site. Kelly baggett explains alot of the concepts of charlie for guys just starting out.

Hope this helps.
 

wallyt99

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Jun 9, 2007
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Re: Weight Training Program

Hey guys,
I'm looking to start doing weights as soon as the season finishes. I have done weights on and off throughout my teen years with out any serious results. Im 19 years of age, 190cms tall and 80 kgs. Im rather skinny and just want to get a bit of size about me......

Short sets of heavy weights will build size, and short burst strength - which is generally what body builders do. Despite this, I would not recommend it for you.

Being quite young, you really should not focus too much on size at this stage (despite the temptation). Start with 3 x longer sets of 12-15 Reps on light weights - You will ideally need someone to teach you how to create a balanced program though. I would also focus on a number of core exercises - to build a solid base.

After a few months, you could then start some specialist shorter sets to build strength and bulk.... but you will also need to at times give yourself good long recovery times. Your body will build size over time as you get older - particularly if you start with a good base of tone and stamina (light sets).

Also, get a whey protein for after your workouts. Very important for recovery and building muscle. I used to use Aussie Bodies which worked well for me.


I would also start with the light sets now, so over the later period of summer you can work on some bulk before next season.
 

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Oct 16, 2007
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Dimma's wife
Re: Weight Training Program

Hypertrophy, 8 - 10 reps of the highest weight you can do, should be really struggling on the last rep. Doing this rips your muscle fibres so they rebuild bigger and stronger after resting that muscle for a week.

I've gained about 9 kilos in half a year

Divide it into a few days

I do 3 days

Day 1 : Shoulders, Pecs, neck etc.
Day 2 : Calves, Hamstrings, Quads, Glutes and Lats
Day 3 : Biceps, Triceps, Abs

Although took me a while to build to this, used to do 3 sets with one exercise for each muscle until I plateaued and wasn't getting results.
 

jgb99

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May 21, 2008
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Re: Weight Training Program

Oberfuhrer Abetz's advice is very good ...

+1 for Rippetoe's Starting Strength.
 

Parse

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Feb 26, 2007
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Re: Weight Training Program

Hypertrophy, 8 - 10 reps of the highest weight you can do, should be really struggling on the last rep. Doing this rips your muscle fibres so they rebuild bigger and stronger after resting that muscle for a week.

I've gained about 9 kilos in half a year

Divide it into a few days

I do 3 days

Day 1 : Shoulders, Pecs, neck etc.
Day 2 : Calves, Hamstrings, Quads, Glutes and Lats
Day 3 : Biceps, Triceps, Abs

Although took me a while to build to this, used to do 3 sets with one exercise for each muscle until I plateaued and wasn't getting results.

That's one of the weirdest splits i've ever seen. BUt if its working for you great
 

Cats fan 16

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Oct 8, 2003
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Re: Weight Training Program

I'd probably do a full body workout. Like HST i think it's called. I did one like this: 3 sets of 8 (nothing ground breaking but its alright)

Flat Bench
Fly's
Tricep pushdown
Bicep curl
Lat pulldown
Dbell rows
Dbell shoulder press
Squats
Calf raise

You should probably include deadlifts in there if you can fit them.
 

swiftdog

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Sep 26, 2005
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Re: Weight Training Program

I'll try and give you a very basic split that will cover most muscles. Set and rep ranges vary depending on what you are trying to achieve (i.e. explosive power vs being able to lift as much as possible).

Legs/Abs:
Squat - Quadriceps and Adductors Group
Leg Curl - Hamstrings
Hanging Leg Raise - most ab muscles and Hip Flexors
Get a guy working at the gym, preferably a PT, just to teach you how to do a squat correctly and safely.

Chest/Shoulders:
Bench Press or Dips - Both are good for the chest. Bench preferably but if you don't have a spotter dips (wide grip) sholud be ok.
Dumbell Shoulder Press or Upright Row - Both target pretty similair muscles except for when it comes to the arms. The DB Shoulder press targets the triceps more whereas the upright row targets the biceps (and underlying muscles) more.

Back:
Lat Pulldown - Great exercise for the back, covers most bases. Added benefit of targeting the biceps (and underlying muscles) and pec major as well.
DB Row - Hits pretty much the same back muscles as the lat pull down plus some lower back muscles and obliques. Also hits biceps.

This is a very basic exercise list that covers most muscle groups. Heaps of variations out and about. One thing I wouldn't recommend doing is copying the biggest guy in the gym. Odds are he'll just tell you how he trains which is good for him but possibly useless for you. One final thing, if anyone tells you that squats work the hamstrings go up and slap him for me.
 

carn_freo

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Sep 22, 2005
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Re: Weight Training Program

hey guys im pretty much in the same boat as the op with the age height and weight. i do chest & tris, then legs and shoulders, and then back and bis generally train 4 days a week. 4 sets of each exercise generally 3 exercises per muscle group and between 9 & 12 reps and fit in some abs at the end of every session.
wat do you think?

just wondering wat your thoughts on smith machine squats are? i was reading on bigfooty a few months back that they werent the best form of squat just wondering why. anyone got an opinion on them?
 

Oberfuhrer Abetz

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Jun 25, 2009
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Re: Weight Training Program

Yep,

Depends on bar position, stance width, whether you initiate the movement with the knees or hips, where the weight is on your feet, if you sit back or down etc etc.

The hamstrings are involved in the extension of the hips and knee flexion so I just couldn't understand how they wouldn't be involved in a compound movement like squats.
 

J_Moore

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Jun 8, 2008
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Re: Weight Training Program

Start out lifting heavy and often. Don't concentrate too much on form. The bigger the weight, the better, and just get it moving - any direction, doesn't matter. Remember, the most important thing about weight training is that you advance through the weights very quickly, by any means necessary, and that people look at you while you do it.
 
Oct 16, 2007
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Dimma's wife
Re: Weight Training Program

That's one of the weirdest splits i've ever seen. BUt if its working for you great

Don't see how its weird

Day 1: shoulders, chest
Day 2. Legs, Back
Day 3: Bicep, Tricep, (forearm in there too), Abs

What would you suggest? I know of absolute freaks down at the gym who don't even have a program, they just turn up and do whatever they feel like that suits what they do for the rest of the week if theyre too busy.

+ May I add, this is very similar to a program alot of body builders use, but they spread it out over moer than 3 days. Unfortunately, I don't have enough time to go down to the gym as often. and just over a year ago this split got nothing but good feedback on an american bodybuilding forum.
 

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swiftdog

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Sep 26, 2005
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Re: Weight Training Program

Yep,

Depends on bar position, stance width, whether you initiate the movement with the knees or hips, where the weight is on your feet, if you sit back or down etc etc.

The hamstrings are involved in the extension of the hips and knee flexion so I just couldn't understand how they wouldn't be involved in a compound movement like squats.

No, no matter where you put the bar the hamstrings will NOT work in a squat. The hamstrings (Biceps Femoris, Semitendinosus and Semimembranosus) are two-joint muscles, covering both the hip and knee joints. Biceps Femoris inserts onto the Fibula, Semiten and Semimem both insert onto the Tibia. They extend the hip they and flex the knee. In the concentric phase of a squat the hips are extending and the knees are extending, the opposite action of the hammys. The hamstrings can't contract at the hip joint and extend at the knee joint, it's physiologically impossible. Hence, why it's not involved in squats. The Glute's and Adductor Magnus help extend at the hip joint during a squat.

Deadlifts can work both the hamstrings and quads depending on how they're performed.
 

Deledio2Conca

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Oct 1, 2006
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Re: Weight Training Program

Slightly off topic, but what are some good exercises to build up the forearms? My shoulders and biceps are in pretty good proportion with my body, but my forearms down to my wrists are too skinny.

Any ideas guys?
 

Cats fan 16

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Oct 8, 2003
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Re: Weight Training Program

No, no matter where you put the bar the hamstrings will NOT work in a squat. The hamstrings (Biceps Femoris, Semitendinosus and Semimembranosus) are two-joint muscles, covering both the hip and knee joints. Biceps Femoris inserts onto the Fibula, Semiten and Semimem both insert onto the Tibia. They extend the hip they and flex the knee. In the concentric phase of a squat the hips are extending and the knees are extending, the opposite action of the hammys. The hamstrings can't contract at the hip joint and extend at the knee joint, it's physiologically impossible. Hence, why it's not involved in squats. The Glute's and Adductor Magnus help extend at the hip joint during a squat.

Deadlifts can work both the hamstrings and quads depending on how they're performed.

What about in the eccentric phase (going down)? Knee will be flexing and hip will be flexing. Glutes and hamstrings will be working eccentrically to ensure you do not fall flat on your arse..
 

Oberfuhrer Abetz

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Jun 25, 2009
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Re: Weight Training Program

No, no matter where you put the bar the hamstrings will NOT work in a squat. The hamstrings (Biceps Femoris, Semitendinosus and Semimembranosus) are two-joint muscles, covering both the hip and knee joints. Biceps Femoris inserts onto the Fibula, Semiten and Semimem both insert onto the Tibia. They extend the hip they and flex the knee. In the concentric phase of a squat the hips are extending and the knees are extending, the opposite action of the hammys. The hamstrings can't contract at the hip joint and extend at the knee joint, it's physiologically impossible. Hence, why it's not involved in squats. The Glute's and Adductor Magnus help extend at the hip joint during a squat.

Deadlifts can work both the hamstrings and quads depending on how they're performed.

A few points:

Having a low bar position increases the hip flexion needed thereby during the concentric (upwards) phase increasing the range of movement required for full extension of the hips. The Adductor Magnus although involved in extension, has its primary role in the adduction of the hips.

It IS physiologically possible for the hamstrings to contract at the hip joint and allow for extension at the knee especially in a closed chain kinetic exercise such as the squat, it is known as co-contraction (see Lombard’s paradox). This is why squats are the preferred athletic exercise as the same occurs in jumping, sprinting, cycling etc. Leg presses pretty much take out the need for the posterior chain to act as a hip extensor due to the seated position.

And yes I agree the squat is primarily a quad and glute exercise but the hamstrings are used during the movement.

On a bit of a side note hamstrings should be trained mainly in their hip extension role e.g. Deadlift variations and Good Mornings as exercises such as leg curls can lead to an increased risk of injury.
 

J_Moore

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Jun 8, 2008
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Re: Weight Training Program

On a bit of a side note hamstrings should be trained mainly in their hip extension role e.g. Deadlift variations and Good Mornings as exercises such as leg curls can lead to an increased risk of injury.

I'd heard that doing Leg Curls with an emphasis on the eccentric phase of the movement (is that the right term? Basically, straightening the leg) was actually pretty useful in terms of preventing hamstring injury? So, lift a fairly light weight, but lower it very slowly, essentially. Any truth to that?
 

Beamdogg

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Jul 6, 2005
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Re: Weight Training Program

Good mornings are the most effective personally but slowly increase your weight.
 

Oberfuhrer Abetz

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Jun 25, 2009
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Re: Weight Training Program

You seem to be describing a yielding isometric exercise. These are normally done with supramaximal (e.g. greater than 1RM) weight and can increase strength although I wouldn't recommend these for hamstrings (or much else in high doses). So I am not sure exactly what doing these with light weight would achieve besides fatiguing the muscles as there is no progressive resistance. I could be wrong though.

The main reason I believe deadlift/ good morning variations to be superior is that when running the main function of hamstrings (and when they are most vulnerable) is as a hip extensor during triple extension. Leg curls create shearing forces on the knee and according to some cause a shortening of the muscle.
 

swiftdog

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Re: Weight Training Program

What about in the eccentric phase (going down)? Knee will be flexing and hip will be flexing. Glutes and hamstrings will be working eccentrically to ensure you do not fall flat on your arse..

Wrong way around. The quads will act eccentrically. To keep it simple gravity and the weight of the bar provide a downwards force, as do the hams and glutes. The quads provide an upward force when conctacting, whether it being in a concentric or eccentric contraction. The difference between the two types of contractions is that in the eccentric phase the force provided by gravity/weight is greater than that of the upward force supplied by the quads. If the quads didn't fire at all there would be no upward force supplied by the body, and you would fall flat on your ass.

A few points:

Having a low bar position increases the hip flexion needed thereby during the concentric (upwards) phase increasing the range of movement required for full extension of the hips. The Adductor Magnus although involved in extension, has its primary role in the adduction of the hips.

It IS physiologically possible for the hamstrings to contract at the hip joint and allow for extension at the knee especially in a closed chain kinetic exercise such as the squat, it is known as co-contraction (see Lombard’s paradox). This is why squats are the preferred athletic exercise as the same occurs in jumping, sprinting, cycling etc. Leg presses pretty much take out the need for the posterior chain to act as a hip extensor due to the seated position.

And yes I agree the squat is primarily a quad and glute exercise but the hamstrings are used during the movement.

On a bit of a side note hamstrings should be trained mainly in their hip extension role e.g. Deadlift variations and Good Mornings as exercises such as leg curls can lead to an increased risk of injury.

Think about it from a neural level. The nervous system is either going to send Action Potentials telling the hamstrings to fire, or they wont. If the nervous system tells the hammys to fire then they will cause the hip to extend and the knee to flex. The movements any single muscle fibre can do is contract concentrically (resulting in the shorterning of the muscle), isometrically contract, or eccentrically contract (the muscle fibre is trying to shortern however, as I described above, the force opposing these muscle fibres is greater than the force supplied by the muscle. This results in lengthening of the muscle). In any contraction you can't have some muscle fibres in a muscle shorterning and some lengthening. The nervous system knows this and hence preferentially recruits the glutes and adductors to help extend, adduct and medially rotate at the hip joint in a squat.
 

swiftdog

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Re: Weight Training Program

I'd heard that doing Leg Curls with an emphasis on the eccentric phase of the movement (is that the right term? Basically, straightening the leg) was actually pretty useful in terms of preventing hamstring injury? So, lift a fairly light weight, but lower it very slowly, essentially. Any truth to that?

In the eccentric phase of a contraction, contraction velocity will not affect the amount of force produced by the muscle (barring very slow speeds). In the concentric phase of a contraction, in general, the slower the movement velocity the greater force producing capabilities the muscle has.
 

Fire Storm

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Re: Weight Training Program

Why do people always post routines that are only good for bodybuilding?

3 x whole body routine per week. Say monday, wednesday, friday. Heavy, Light, Medium.

Heavy Day (mon)

Squat 5x5 working up to max weight -ex. 50,60,70,80,90kg x 5
Incline Press - 5x5
Power Clean - 5x5
chins 3-4 x max
abs


Light Day (wed)

Squat - 5x5 - use 3rd set from heavy day ex. 40,40,50,60,70kg x 5
Good Morning - 4x10 - alternate with 5x8 weekly if you want variety
(standing)Overhead Press 5x5 - done to the front
abs


Medium Day (fri)

Squat 5x5 - use 4th set from monday ex. 40,50,60,70,80kg x 5
Overhead Press - 2x5 warm up -5x3 with same weight. get all 5 sets, up weight nxt w/o
High Pull - 5x5
chins 3-4 sets
abs

Use that for 6-8 weeks then make some changes in exercises and reps. Interested and I'll post em. Wanna keep doing pointless bodybuilding routines, your loss and I'll keep it to myself.

Have a PRO/CARB shake after w/o. One before bed and eat 5-6 meals per day with 20-30gms PRO and double that CARB and you'll put on weight AND be a hellova lot stronger if you apply yourself.

Wanna curl and do tons of benches? Good for you pretty boy.



At one stage before I hurt my knee playing touch footy - first time in years and thought I could pickup from where I left off - and got a nasty tropical virus up here in cairns, I could Squat - BELOW parallel - 150kg. Deadlift 150kg after not even DOING deadlifts. Goodmorning 100kgs x 10. Thats 100kg by the way.

80kg+ for Pulls and nearly that for my Presses which were always my weak point.


So, don't worry, it works. And I'm lean and skinny when I don't exercise. A mega hardgainer. So if it works for me, it'll work for you.
 

Parse

Team Captain
Feb 26, 2007
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Elsternwick
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Re: Weight Training Program

Why do people always post routines that are only good for bodybuilding?

3 x whole body routine per week. Say monday, wednesday, friday. Heavy, Light, Medium.

Heavy Day (mon)

Squat 5x5 working up to max weight -ex. 50,60,70,80,90kg x 5
Incline Press - 5x5
Power Clean - 5x5
chins 3-4 x max
abs


Light Day (wed)

Squat - 5x5 - use 3rd set from heavy day ex. 40,40,50,60,70kg x 5
Good Morning - 4x10 - alternate with 5x8 weekly if you want variety
(standing)Overhead Press 5x5 - done to the front
abs


Medium Day (fri)

Squat 5x5 - use 4th set from monday ex. 40,50,60,70,80kg x 5
Overhead Press - 2x5 warm up -5x3 with same weight. get all 5 sets, up weight nxt w/o
High Pull - 5x5
chins 3-4 sets
abs

Use that for 6-8 weeks then make some changes in exercises and reps. Interested and I'll post em. Wanna keep doing pointless bodybuilding routines, your loss and I'll keep it to myself.

Have a PRO/CARB shake after w/o. One before bed and eat 5-6 meals per day with 20-30gms PRO and double that CARB and you'll put on weight AND be a hellova lot stronger if you apply yourself.

Wanna curl and do tons of benches? Good for you pretty boy.



At one stage before I hurt my knee playing touch footy - first time in years and thought I could pickup from where I left off - and got a nasty tropical virus up here in cairns, I could Squat - BELOW parallel - 150kg. Deadlift 150kg after not even DOING deadlifts. Goodmorning 100kgs x 10. Thats 100kg by the way.

80kg+ for Pulls and nearly that for my Presses which were always my weak point.


So, don't worry, it works. And I'm lean and skinny when I don't exercise. A mega hardgainer. So if it works for me, it'll work for you.


You make some very good points. The exercises you have listed are more geared towards sports performance than mirror muscles.

However the OP states that he's not very experienced etc.

I would suggest that some of your exercises are advanced in their nature.

The unfortunate thing is very few people can jump straight into a program such as yours, I myself have trained very similar to this.

With novices experience needs to be built and confidence in the movements of their own bodies, so starting with the simple exercises more suited to a bodybuilding approach will allow them to build some strength, size and more importantly confidence in their ability to perform harder exercises.

Not having a go, but the distance between a novice and a power clean is huge.
 

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