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Cameron Schwab - Why the hate?
- Thread starter Davis333
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IAMJUNGLEMUFFIN
Cancelled
- Banned
- #2
Because he loves to destroy your future by trading away top picks for players with little output.
Point in case, Mitch Clark.
Point in case, Mitch Clark.
He is all about instant gratification. No long term outlook. Feels like he always needs to be making moves to justify his job even when the wise thing might be to do nothing. Took a lot of time off to do an educational course in the US that was paid for and then promptly left. Self serving. All hype, no substance.
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- Aug 27, 2007
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He and Connoly put all our eggs in one basket so to speak and when that failed there was no backup and that is what many believe led to our mediocrity from 07-09 after a prelim in 06
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It was Schwab that brokered the deal that saw us send the #1, 20 and 36 pick to the Hawks in 2001. (That in itself is enough for the vitriol). We got Croad and McPharlin. (We kept pick 4 and got Polak.)
Hawks picked up a couple of handy players in Hodge and Mitchell with two of those three picks.
Then 2 years later, Schwabby was at it again when he traded Croad back to the Hawks in exchange for pick 10.
So Hawks end up with Hodge and Mitchell - we got McPharlin. Now I love McPharlin, but we probably could have got him anyway as a homesick 20 year old at the time.
The very next year he sent off pick 3 (I think) to Brisbane and Adam McPhee to Essendon in exchange for Des Headland. This was after a bidding war with WCE which saw them pull out when the stakes became too high, and sign Daniel Chick instead. Now I am happy that we never had that cancerous creature at our club, but Des never really reached any great heights under CC's coaching, Brisbane picked up Brennan, and McPhee went onto become AA and a B&F winner at the Bombers. Our second round pick went to the Dees for Farmer so we were out of the first two rounds of the 2002 draft.
Schwab then stuck his hand in things again in 2004, when in cahoots with Connolly he traded our first, second and third picks in the draft for Josh Carr. Again, Carr was a good player, but was he worth compromising our entire draft year for (after having done it in 2002 also)? I would think not.
In 2006 after reaching a prelim, Schwabby and CC were determined that a big signing would be the final piece of the premiership puzzle. They packaged up our pick 13 + the only player from the 2001 debacle in Polak, and sent it to Richmond for pick 8.
Richmond used pick 13 to get Coleman medallist Jack Riewoldt. Plus they also had Polak.
So then, Schwabby waves pick 8 under Collingwood's nose and says - "Give us Tarrant". Collingwood say that pick 8 is not enough. So Schwabby and CC pack favourite son Paul Medhurst off as the "sweetener" and send him along with pick 8 to Collingwood.
Collingwood used pick 8 to get AA CHB Ben Reid. Plus they also had Medhurst.
Net gain Freo: Tarrant and a Bottom 8 finish in 2007.
Net gain Richmond: Riewoldt and Polak (who was handy till he ran in fron of a tram).
Net gain Collingwood: Reid and Medhurst (who despite not really doing a whole lot more there than with us, scores himself an AA guernsey).
Schwabby loves to get his hands dirty and get involved when it comes to trade time. He loves the thrill of outbidding other clubs when he has a target. He will continue to up the ante and pay way overs, rather than back down. He will happily mortgage the future and pay a player more than he is worth to put a #11 on the back of a big signing where he has "beaten all comers"... oh sorry, didn't mean to get so specific... but I think you see a pattern here and let me tell you - the end will not be pretty.
When Schwab and Connolly were given their marching orders I swear there would have been a huge number of FFC members who would have volunteered to drive them to the airport and personally see them onto the plane and far, far away from our footy club.
Hawks picked up a couple of handy players in Hodge and Mitchell with two of those three picks.
Then 2 years later, Schwabby was at it again when he traded Croad back to the Hawks in exchange for pick 10.
So Hawks end up with Hodge and Mitchell - we got McPharlin. Now I love McPharlin, but we probably could have got him anyway as a homesick 20 year old at the time.
The very next year he sent off pick 3 (I think) to Brisbane and Adam McPhee to Essendon in exchange for Des Headland. This was after a bidding war with WCE which saw them pull out when the stakes became too high, and sign Daniel Chick instead. Now I am happy that we never had that cancerous creature at our club, but Des never really reached any great heights under CC's coaching, Brisbane picked up Brennan, and McPhee went onto become AA and a B&F winner at the Bombers. Our second round pick went to the Dees for Farmer so we were out of the first two rounds of the 2002 draft.
Schwab then stuck his hand in things again in 2004, when in cahoots with Connolly he traded our first, second and third picks in the draft for Josh Carr. Again, Carr was a good player, but was he worth compromising our entire draft year for (after having done it in 2002 also)? I would think not.
In 2006 after reaching a prelim, Schwabby and CC were determined that a big signing would be the final piece of the premiership puzzle. They packaged up our pick 13 + the only player from the 2001 debacle in Polak, and sent it to Richmond for pick 8.
Richmond used pick 13 to get Coleman medallist Jack Riewoldt. Plus they also had Polak.
So then, Schwabby waves pick 8 under Collingwood's nose and says - "Give us Tarrant". Collingwood say that pick 8 is not enough. So Schwabby and CC pack favourite son Paul Medhurst off as the "sweetener" and send him along with pick 8 to Collingwood.
Collingwood used pick 8 to get AA CHB Ben Reid. Plus they also had Medhurst.
Net gain Freo: Tarrant and a Bottom 8 finish in 2007.
Net gain Richmond: Riewoldt and Polak (who was handy till he ran in fron of a tram).
Net gain Collingwood: Reid and Medhurst (who despite not really doing a whole lot more there than with us, scores himself an AA guernsey).
Schwabby loves to get his hands dirty and get involved when it comes to trade time. He loves the thrill of outbidding other clubs when he has a target. He will continue to up the ante and pay way overs, rather than back down. He will happily mortgage the future and pay a player more than he is worth to put a #11 on the back of a big signing where he has "beaten all comers"... oh sorry, didn't mean to get so specific... but I think you see a pattern here and let me tell you - the end will not be pretty.
When Schwab and Connolly were given their marching orders I swear there would have been a huge number of FFC members who would have volunteered to drive them to the airport and personally see them onto the plane and far, far away from our footy club.
Geez Imperial Purple, when you put it like that I can understand why! I never realised they f#*ked up to such an extent! Thanks for that lengthy explanation.
CTD
CTD
- Thread starter
- #9
Why was Schwab so involved with the trades though?
Cam Schwab was involved in the Mitch Clark trade. But it was Mark Neeld and Tim Harrington (list manager) who were the main men. Why does Schwab cop such a high percentage blame in the trades? Surely you had other staff involved?
At the end of 2006 it looked like you were going places. A lot of Freo supporters at the time were stoked to be topping up on ready mades in Tarrant and Solomon to have a shot at a premiership. Wouldn't you have prefered to have a fair crack than die wondering?
You were a basket case off field before he arrived and were a powerhouse once he left. doesn't he get the credit?
BananaOnTheRun
Cancelled
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As a businessman he did a great job raising the clubs profile and making us financially viable and attractive to sponsors. But he didn't know his boundaries when it came to the footy department. Like the shit he pulled with Clarke. Mitch was about to head to Freo when Schwab jumped in with the massive cheque, if whispers are correct. Apparently he hadn't run that decision past anyone at the Dees. There are also the known issues that the Melbourne playing group have with him. If your CEO doesn't have the support of the players and behaves erratically under his own direction, is your club stable? Probably not.
I've spent years forgetting all that stuff IP. How about next time, you and I just gloss over the facts. I'd certainly appreciate it.
Ditto Tony, thanks IP back to the Psych I go.
Geez between you and Lach you have trolled us real good this week.
Gawd that was awful !!
Look at more reports into the Clark deal.
You will read about how it was all Schwabb that wanted the deal an did everything in his power to get it.
Neeld was just a passenger.
Ip went into great detail but still missed out plenty of it.
His job is to make the club financially viable.
He is damn good at it, we wouldnt be as strong offield now if it wasnt for him.
I thank him for that.
The way he does it is completely wrong, an stuffs up the onfield stuff.
He goes after big profile players an does everything possible to get them, doesnt stop to think about what risk it has on clubs future.
He uses that player to help promote club, which helps him offield getting finances right.
He continues to stick his nose into onfield matters to help him achieve his off field goals.
Players get pissed off with whats happening as they see there could be onfield problems if something doesnt happen soon.
So unhappy playing group = crap performance.
There were stories about this at Melbourne last year, players un happy about off field stuff.
Rumours part of reason Scully left was due to all the problems going on offield and players unhappy.
He did his job well here.
Got big name players an it helped with marketing an getting bums on seats.
Had an ok team thx to throwing away the future to get it an that helped get more bums on seats.
Made us a finacially viable club.
So offield things were in great shape.
Onfield
We were screwed.
No young players coming through, a bunch of old players here for a retirment cheque.
So if u want him to fix finances he will do it very well.
It will only cost you a few players(scully,Macdonald, an a few more to come)
He might of learnt that throwing away so many draft picks is bad, so instead it will be players an $$$.
The money he spends to get them will be a problem when young players want better contracts an they cant afford it.
You name it he sticks his nose in it.
Melbourne fans didnt listen to us when u got him, all u saw was we went from struggling for $$$ to making $$$ an think he did great.
Its how he does it thats the problem.
Look up stories from last year about offield problems at melbourne an u will see its the same crap that was going on here.
You will read about how it was all Schwabb that wanted the deal an did everything in his power to get it.
Neeld was just a passenger.
Ip went into great detail but still missed out plenty of it.
His job is to make the club financially viable.
He is damn good at it, we wouldnt be as strong offield now if it wasnt for him.
I thank him for that.
The way he does it is completely wrong, an stuffs up the onfield stuff.
He goes after big profile players an does everything possible to get them, doesnt stop to think about what risk it has on clubs future.
He uses that player to help promote club, which helps him offield getting finances right.
He continues to stick his nose into onfield matters to help him achieve his off field goals.
Players get pissed off with whats happening as they see there could be onfield problems if something doesnt happen soon.
So unhappy playing group = crap performance.
There were stories about this at Melbourne last year, players un happy about off field stuff.
Rumours part of reason Scully left was due to all the problems going on offield and players unhappy.
He did his job well here.
Got big name players an it helped with marketing an getting bums on seats.
Had an ok team thx to throwing away the future to get it an that helped get more bums on seats.
Made us a finacially viable club.
So offield things were in great shape.
Onfield
We were screwed.
No young players coming through, a bunch of old players here for a retirment cheque.
So if u want him to fix finances he will do it very well.
It will only cost you a few players(scully,Macdonald, an a few more to come)
He might of learnt that throwing away so many draft picks is bad, so instead it will be players an $$$.
The money he spends to get them will be a problem when young players want better contracts an they cant afford it.
You name it he sticks his nose in it.
Melbourne fans didnt listen to us when u got him, all u saw was we went from struggling for $$$ to making $$$ an think he did great.
Its how he does it thats the problem.
Look up stories from last year about offield problems at melbourne an u will see its the same crap that was going on here.
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I may not resemble pav IP, but i will happily carry your children
Enforcer25
Team Captain
Wait a minute - this is total bullsh%t.
Reginald Perrin
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He went to a KISS concert when they were in Perth to present a Freo jumper to the band and didn't get me any tickets.
I cant remember if Schab was at the club, but Drum also let Clement go to
Collingwood, would not give him a game.
It seems Fremantle from the start always gambled on trading youth for someone else, Peter Bell, Farmer fot Gilbert, etc.
From inception the club was always striving to be different, there were not enough Fremantle people involved, its taken fifteen years to get an experienced coach, something that should of been done after Neesham.
I remember one year Schab was in the paper stating we would win the GF.
Connelly is tainted by association, he was a great salesman though..
Collingwood, would not give him a game.
It seems Fremantle from the start always gambled on trading youth for someone else, Peter Bell, Farmer fot Gilbert, etc.
From inception the club was always striving to be different, there were not enough Fremantle people involved, its taken fifteen years to get an experienced coach, something that should of been done after Neesham.
I remember one year Schab was in the paper stating we would win the GF.
Connelly is tainted by association, he was a great salesman though..
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Because he installed his best mate (Connolly) as coach and appointed football managers that he could manipulate.
People would have been happy with Tarrant at the right price, but he was on the outer at the Pies so why give up pick 8 in a strong draft?
We the supporters turned the club around though. After 7 years at the foot of the table there were so many early picks on the list that improvement was practically guaranteed.
Winning more games in a 2 team state = more members = more sponsors = more $$$.
The fact that Schwab took off to the US in his final year at the club to pad his resume (at Harvard?) on full pay then decided that he missed his son and wanted to move back to Melbourne in 2007 when it became obvious that we needed to rebuild also rubbed people up the wrong way. He dropped us in the shit in terms of list management then abandoned ship.
What made it worse was that we traded early picks when everyone knew the drafts were strong (2001 and 2006) and loaded up in a weak draft (2004).
There was also the Fabian Francis debacle where Schwab convinced him to leave Port with a 2 year deal then we didn't have the cap space to sign him and had to compensate Francis.
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That's the other thing that always bugs me. At the time Woosha was a serious candidate for the job but it seemed inevitable that Schwab was going to find a way to give it to his mate no matter what.
We had a pretty talented team go to waste in those years, I always wonder what would have happened if Worsfold had been at the helm.
Whatname
Club Legend
- Feb 17, 2011
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Not true, Worsfold was set to come to Freo. When Nisbett found out he gave old judgey the chop and instated the favourite son.
FWIW, I will still look back on the Schwab/Connolly era with fondness. While on field they wasted so many chances to establish us a premiership contender as Schwab was stuck in the 90's and had no idea that the draft was the only way to build a premiership team. The mistakes have all been pointed out many times before on BF but the one that kills me the most is 2001, imagine having Judd or Hodge in that 2006 side.
For all that dont forget before Schwab/Connolly and Rick Hart we were about to have the plug pulled on our club. If they didnt save our ass there would be no Fremantle Dockers let alone the finacial powerhouse we are quickly becoming. While they didnt deliver sustained success they gave us a competitive football team and definite improvement from the dark days of the late 90's. Plus they got the crowds along and there is no doubt in my mind the reason we have around 40,000 members is due to the spruiking of Connolly and Schwab's marketing dept.
Enforcer25
Team Captain
Connolly is a fantastic spruiker down at the demons.
Not sure what else he's good at though.
I do see a bit of contradiction in some of the arguments, that Schwab was making terrible decisions that hamstrung the club, but then he left you in the lurch?
Wouldn't it then be a good thing that he left?
As for the further study, that is something he would have earned as part of his contract and all the hours he'd done previously. You can't expect him to not take advantage of something owed to him.
But I do see the control freak, wannabe list manager in Schwab.
Fortunately he's now been put in his place and has others in those roles.
If he just concentrates on fulfilling the role of a CEO, I think he'll be good for Melb.
Until we can find someone better.
Not sure what else he's good at though.
I do see a bit of contradiction in some of the arguments, that Schwab was making terrible decisions that hamstrung the club, but then he left you in the lurch?
Wouldn't it then be a good thing that he left?
As for the further study, that is something he would have earned as part of his contract and all the hours he'd done previously. You can't expect him to not take advantage of something owed to him.
But I do see the control freak, wannabe list manager in Schwab.
Fortunately he's now been put in his place and has others in those roles.
If he just concentrates on fulfilling the role of a CEO, I think he'll be good for Melb.
Until we can find someone better.
The way I (perhaps incorrectly) remember the story with Worsfold is that Woosha wanted the Freo job, partly because he thought it might be better than going back to his old club where some of his teammates were still playing. And our board wanted Worsfold. It was going to happen.
But somehow Schwab stepped in and deliberately put forward an insulting offer ... less years than what Worsfold wanted or saying we had to wait to interview other candidates or something like that. At the same time, folks down at West Coast were angry that a club legend might be slipping away and they would hire Neil Craig ... and it didn't take much for WC to present a better offer to Woosha. Freo couldn't guarantee him what he wanted (it was probably clear that Schwab was angling for Connolly) and he wasn't going to say no to WC with the chance that he might end up with no job at all if he waited and they went with someone like Craig.
I also don't buy that Schwab was some kind of off-field messiah. Anybody with half a financial brain could have fixed our finances. They were poor because of utter incompetence before Schwab. I don't give him any credit for doing something that someone with basic competence could have achieved.
But somehow Schwab stepped in and deliberately put forward an insulting offer ... less years than what Worsfold wanted or saying we had to wait to interview other candidates or something like that. At the same time, folks down at West Coast were angry that a club legend might be slipping away and they would hire Neil Craig ... and it didn't take much for WC to present a better offer to Woosha. Freo couldn't guarantee him what he wanted (it was probably clear that Schwab was angling for Connolly) and he wasn't going to say no to WC with the chance that he might end up with no job at all if he waited and they went with someone like Craig.
I also don't buy that Schwab was some kind of off-field messiah. Anybody with half a financial brain could have fixed our finances. They were poor because of utter incompetence before Schwab. I don't give him any credit for doing something that someone with basic competence could have achieved.
