12 team competition. 6 teams have to go, who would you boot?

[MrChow]

Port would be if it needed to compete against the financial power of 'only' 5 Vic clubs...It'd make the WA clubs look poor.

For one, I'd say they'd be looking at roughly doubling the salary cap.

If their were 12 teams, and still limits on football club spending - I don't see it as a problem.

I'd be interested in seeing if the AFL went to a zone system - where their was greater community connection, if many of the interstate supporters of Victorian clubs may drop off- as their friends, brothers and sons would be playing under the potential of playing for an AFL club in their area- Might be like the old days again...

Also, the extra benefits for playing for a Melbourne club, with all the extra press, media personalities (their bias) and exposure, GFs always at the G, would need to be compensated for in some ways to create a fair competition- both by having 12 teams, and also economically.

 

[B4Bear]

Carlton have had 2 70k + crowds in a year we are contending for the spoon

I expect a North (home) / Richmond elimination final will get that and more.

Does that count?

Stupid thread. No one is going.

 

[The Blue Baggers]

I expect a North (home) / Richmond elimination final will get that and more.

Does that count?

Stupid thread. No one is going.

We were talking h & a

No one is going because the 3 biggest drawing clubs are all s#%^*

 

[telsor]

THe VFL or AFL? no-one has played 100 years in the AFL - It started in 1990

It's the same competition.

If a woman changes her name when she gets married, is she a different person?

Look at the AFLs official history and records...when do they think they started?

 

[telsor]

We were talking h & a

No one is going because the 3 biggest drawing clubs are all s#%^*

3 biggest?
Hawthorn is 3rd, Richmond is 7th, Collingwood is 11th....It's not that bad.

 

[telsor]

If their were 12 teams, and still limits on football club spending - I don't see it as a problem.

Those limits would be set far higher...

 

[Smashwood]

Just because 12 was the number blurted out doesn't actually mean that has to be it.

GWS gone
Suns gone
Nth-Dogs merge
Saints-Dees merge

That's a start back to 14 teams.

 

[Papa G]

Just because 12 was the number blurted out doesn't actually mean that has to be it.

GWS gone
Suns gone
Nth-Dogs merge
Saints-Dees merge

That's a start back to 14 teams.

Add Tasmania and you have the perfect league.

 

[madmug]

Add Tasmania and you have the perfect league.

Probably not in a 12 team league, but we have contractual obligations for 9 games a week on TV.

End of story.

 

[deltablues]

How is a Tas team stronger, more sustainable, more appropriate and more deserving than 2 Vic clubs that have been in the comp for 100 years?

What is this "comp" of which you speak? If you mean the AFL, last I looked it was founded quite a ways short of 100 years ago.

But apart from that, I congratulate you on your candor - your comment as bolded speaks for itself - reminiscent of some kind of Divine Right of Kings - and makes any further discussion with you on a Tas team (in this thread and other similar threads) fruitless.

 

[telsor]

What is this "comp" of which you speak? If you mean the AFL, last I looked it was founded quite a ways short of 100 years ago.

But apart from that, I congratulate you on your candor - your comment as bolded speaks for itself - reminiscent of some kind of Divine Right of Kings - and makes any further discussion with you on a Tas team (in this thread and other similar threads) fruitless.

I'll note that the words you bolded were quoted from the post I replied to.

and the 'comp' is the VFL, which expanded into the AFL. Changing the name doesn't make it a new league.

 

[deltablues]

I'll note that the words you bolded were quoted from the post I replied to.

and the 'comp' is the VFL, which expanded into the AFL. Changing the name doesn't make it a new league.

The way I read it the words were not quoted from the post you replied to, but were your words in your post as your reply, by way of addition re the Vic teams. That was my point.

I agree that the AFL is still the VFL in many de facto ways (I have commented on this in various threads elsewhere, including comparing it to the NFL, which is truly a national league) and that the on-going parochial VFL mindset (understandable to some extent in the Oz context where the VFL was the major Aussie Rules league) is partly what the Tas team debate is all about.

But as I get it the the "comp" is not the VFL - there is currently a VFL being an emasculated state league (similar to the SANFL and WAFL post-AFL). The "comp" is the AFL - a new league and has teams from other states in it now - that is what the A is for in AFL (presumably) I suspect that to non-Vic folk the comp is definitely not the VFL.

But I may be wrong so a question - did the AFL charter/constitution/whatever at the time state something like - the VFL shall henceforth be known as the AFL which is a change of name only and all the VFL existing rights and entitlements continue as before? Or did they set up a new structure stating that - all the VFL rights and powers etc shall be assigned to and incorporated in the new AFL entity mutatis mutandis etc etc?

If so, then what you say about the AFL being the VFL re-labelled may be true. If not then it is not true (technically).

 

[telsor]

The way I read it the words were not quoted from the post you replied to, but were your words in your post as your reply, by way of addition re the Vic teams. That was my point.

I agree that the AFL is still the VFL in many de facto ways (I have commented on this in various threads elsewhere, including comparing it to the NFL, which is truly a national league) and that the on-going parochial VFL mindset (understandable to some extent in the Oz context where the VFL was the major Aussie Rules league) is partly what the Tas team debate is all about.

But as I get it the the "comp" is not the VFL - there is currently a VFL being an emasculated state league (similar to the SANFL and WAFL post-AFL). The "comp" is the AFL - a new league and has teams from other states in it now - that is what the A is for in AFL (presumably) I suspect that to non-Vic folk the comp is definitely not the VFL.

But I may be wrong so a question - did the AFL charter/constitution/whatever at the time state something like - the VFL shall henceforth be known as the AFL which is a change of name only and all the VFL existing rights and entitlements continue as before? Or did they set up a new structure stating that - all the VFL rights and powers etc shall be assigned to and incorporated in the new AFL entity mutatis mutandis etc etc?

If so, then what you say about the AFL being the VFL re-labelled may be true. If not then it is not true (technically).

I can't help what you read into words, but I clearly used those particular words in response to another post. I also used them as a question, not a statement, due to those being the criteria nominated by Papa G.


Not sure of the legal intricacies, but it is the same competition, they just changed the name to reflect the changes that had been taking place. They consider their history to go back to 1897 in all the official records...The Brownlow medal is still the same award, as is the Coleman, etc etc.

 

[Hoops]

Melbourne, St Kilda, Essendon, Gold Coast, Brisbane, Carlton

 

[madmug]

Melbourne, St Kilda, Essendon, Gold Coast, Brisbane, Carlton

What, no club in Qld S.E corner with 3million people? But 2 clubs in Sydney?

As usual, Once talk of cuts comes, its always Vic supporters who nominate the opposition Vic clubs to get the knife. Tell me, if it were 6 clubs to go,& it certainly will never happen, how do you justify Geelong staying in?

 

[Hoops]

What, no club in Qld S.E corner with 3million people? But 2 clubs in Sydney?

As usual, Once talk of cuts comes, its always Vic supporters who nominate the opposition Vic clubs to get the knife. Tell me, if it were 6 clubs to go,& it certainly will never happen, how do you justify Geelong staying in?

Those 6 clubs nominated finished 13th-18th and it's just my way of saying I support 2 divisions with promotion and relegation but I don't want to open up that argument as I know I'm in the minority and it will never happen.

 

[Papa G]

Gold Coast and GWS removed.
Footscray North Merge.
Melbourne St Kilda merge.
Add Tasmania. No Victorian teams removed.
15 team league. 2 byes a year. 22 games. Rolling draw.

I win the AFL.

 

[billy fragos]

In no particular order

1 - GWS
2 - Gold Coast
3 - North Melbourne
4 - Western Bulldogs
5 - St kilda
6 - Melbourne

 

[madmug]

In no particular order

1 - GWS
2 - Gold Coast
3 - North Melbourne
4 - Western Bulldogs
5 - St kilda
6 - Melbourne

If so if it were to be 12 teams, & still an national competition. It would surely be WA2, SA1, Qld1, NSW1, Vic7. Would Geelong be one of the 7 I as?. Waiting for the usual twisted replies.

 

[telsor]

Gold Coast and GWS removed.
Footscray North Merge.
Melbourne St Kilda merge.
Add Tasmania. No Victorian teams removed.
15 team league. 2 byes a year. 22 games. Rolling draw.

I win the AFL.

I count 4 Victorian teams removed (and 2 more created).

If Port 'merged' with Adelaide, would you really consider it the same club?

 

[telsor]

If so if it were to be 12 teams, & still an national competition. It would surely be WA2, SA1, Qld1, NSW1, Vic7. Would Geelong be one of the 7 I as?. Waiting for the usual twisted replies.

I'd have SA2 & Vic6 (with serious consideration to WA3 & Vic5) if it was a 'start from scratch' completely different competition, and Geelong would struggle to get a guernsey (maybe a 'geelong/western melb' team?). In saying that, it should be clear that Geelong isn't a completely separate market to Melbourne....It's quicker to get to from the CBD than quite large sections of what is considered to be 'Melbourne' after all.

 

[simba_]

Carlton for disgracing the game
Melbourne ditto

Gold Coast and GWS and Brisbane Lions should not exist

there's 5 easily

then who? St. Kilda are just there like a fly on a screen door, Adelaide of course should not exist either, Essendon are going down the Carlton route quick smart. Bulldogs are in dangerous territory. lolnorf.

in fact I have a list of only 5 clubs I would like to see in a national comp:

Port
Collingwood
Richmond
Hawthorn
Geelong

there's a good start!!

 

[footyfan1978]

Mike Sheehan just talking now about it on #AFL360
Less equals more basically.
12 team comp, 22 rounds, each side plays everyone twice.
From the 18 clubs currently, which 6 would you boot?
I have booted out Suns, Giants, Bombers, North, Saints & Lions.

Silly thread but for the hell of it, boot St.Kilda, Essendon, GWS, Port Adelaide, Dockers and whomever is eliminated in first week of finals next year out of Richmond and North just to add more meaning to it

Hawthorn are forced to get a better jumper to remain and Dockers sacrificed an example of poor choice of nick name, clash jumper and club song so no new clubs understand they are never to be so stupid again. The teal of Port the same reason and tarps in crowd. St.Kilda and Essendon for dwarf burning and haggling over a trade for dumbest player in league. The supplements stuff on it's own probably reason enough.

 

[madmug]

Silly thread but for the hell of it, boot St.Kilda, Essendon, GWS, Port Adelaide, Dockers and whomever is eliminated in first week of finals next year out of Richmond and North just to add more meaning to it

Hawthorn are forced to get a better jumper to remain and Dockers sacrificed an example of poor choice of nick name, clash jumper and club song so no new clubs understand they are never to be so stupid again. The teal of Port the same reason and tarps in crowd. St.Kilda and Essendon for dwarf burning and haggling over a trade for dumbest player in league. The supplements stuff on it's own probably reason enough.

Yes very amusing

However, are you suggesting 8 clubs in Victoria but only 1 in WA? & SA? 1 each in Sydney & Brisbane I can understand. Vic 5.5million or 690k per team v WA 2.5million or 2.5million per team. How well would that go do you recon????

 

[footyfan1978]

Yes very amusing

However, are you suggesting 8 clubs in Victoria but only 1 in WA? & SA? 1 each in Sydney & Brisbane I can understand. Vic 5.5million or 690k per team v WA 2.5million or 2.5million per team. How well would that go do you recon????

It was a piss take. Do not take the thread seriously at all in terms of kicking out clubs.
12 clubs never got given a chance. It would have been more elite teams to have best players in the land spread across 12 clubs but alas, the closest we saw that was early to mid 1980's when Carlton, Hawks and Essendon had really super lists and North and Richmond of earlier 1980's too. Around that time most of best players in land were trying their hand in league at some stage. It was exciting for mine to see top teams go at it then as it was truly elite to see top few teams but that removed when we went to 14 teams as it slowly diluted talent one team can get too and the salary cap and draft spread the talent more evenly to more clubs. Ross Oakley and his cronies tried to engineer it closer to 12 by trying to merge the smaller clubs like Dogs and Lions or more re-locations similar to Swans but the supporters rallied against it and the AFL gave up trying by mid 1990's. We are at 18 now and probably will be 20 in 25 years time. The 12 team league concept is too late now. We have already accepted the standard had to become lower with more teams so we just live with what we got. Most fans cannot tell the difference of standard anyway as plenty now only see it with 16 or 18 teams and those born now won't care whether it is 18 or 20 either.