Past #2: Brad McKenzie - pick #18 '11 draft - delisted end '16 season - 37 games for NM - Norwood '17

[LuvtheKangas]

What bizarre about it? VFL is a long way off AFL, and a bunch of stats are almost meaningless.

LA showed that again on Fri night - he simply isn't up to it despite his million possessions and so on at VFL level.

As I said, it appears BMac was willing to tackle and work defensively, and that is a positive no doubt. Good on him for responding.

No one is shutting down McKenzie, all supporters would prefer he became AFL standard and a quality player in future. Despite your own very high opinion of BMac, there is a reason he is back in the 2s. Those same reasons have been discussed at length in this thread.

I'd accept that from a lot of posters, but VFL stats are what you have hung your hat on in dismissing the option of selecting Harper.

FWIW, I agree that LA is a VFL gun who can't make the next step (yep, he proved it again on Friday), but I would argue Harps will never be a VFL gun. He is undoubtedly AFL quality, though. Players like Bmac and Jacobs getting plenty of it in the VFL is probably a good indicator.

So, VFL form can be a good guide, but not the sole basis of selection. The latter of which seems to be the position many have taken with Harper.

 

[roos_fanatic08]

What was said about his character??
Was it the soft thing?
Because, ummm, well on current evidence, I think that's a fair call.

Yeah it was the soft thing, and the questioning of his work rate. Oh which I replied to explaining how hard he works and how high he is rated internally.

 

[roos_fanatic08]

I'd accept that from a lot of posters, but VFL stats are what you have hung your hat on in dismissing the option of selecting Harper.

FWIW, I agree that LA is a VFL gun who can't make the next step (yep, he proved it again on Friday), but I would argue Harps will never be a VFL gun. He is undoubtedly AFL quality, though. Players like Bmac and Jacobs getting plenty of it in the VFL is probably a good indicator.

So, VFL form can be a good guide, but not the sole basis of selection. The latter of which seems to be the position many have taken with Harper.

Not to mention the fact that Jacobs/Harper/McKenzie have development and time on their side. They have significant improvement left in them whereas Anthony is very much a known quantity.

 

[Devington]

What was said about his character??
Was it the soft thing?
Because, ummm, well on current evidence, I think that's a fair call.

Yep he was called soft. Also called pea hearted, a piece of this, a useless that, a gutless little somethingorother,

It was personal and over the top.

BUT.

That was then, this is now, and there's probably not too much use backing over it. Pretty sure a large portion of us would agree some of the reactions after Brisbane were overly emotive and colourful, but we live, learn, and get over it.

 

[Phillyroo]

What evidence do you have about his character? Have you ever met the bloke? Have you spoken to people at the club regarding his approach and work ethic? Do you have anything to go on other than what you interpret via the TV? If not I call your 'evidence' flimsy and such calls ill informed.

Whoa whoa pump the brakes..... When did I question his character? I said he played soft, pretty sure I saw similar posts from you.

 

[GarnerSmash]

Whoa whoa pump the brakes..... When did I question his character? I said he played soft, pretty sure I saw similar posts from you.

I replied to this post:

What was said about his character??
Was it the soft thing?
Because, ummm, well on current evidence, I think that's a fair call.

Not sure if I am missing something?

In previous posts I never questioned his character nor intent, but his actual physical capacity right now to get the job done at AFL level and that is why I would like to see him spend the rest of the year dominating the VFL, then get stronger and fitter over the preseason.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

Is not up to the required level in a lot of areas.

 

[Saintly31]

I'd accept that from a lot of posters, but VFL stats are what you have hung your hat on in dismissing the option of selecting Harper.

FWIW, I agree that LA is a VFL gun who can't make the next step (yep, he proved it again on Friday), but I would argue Harps will never be a VFL gun. He is undoubtedly AFL quality, though. Players like Bmac and Jacobs getting plenty of it in the VFL is probably a good indicator.

So, VFL form can be a good guide, but not the sole basis of selection. The latter of which seems to be the position many have taken with Harper.

Not sure it's a good idea engaging you in a discussion knowing such a hostile (but excellent) type, but I will continue.

I'll disregard Harper for now, he was both poor at AFL and now VFL level. Not sure even relevant, but he showed some talent and will be given every opportunity. At this stage, and despite my criticism of Scott selection elsewhere, he doesn't get a game and quite rightly.

You will see I also promoted Black well before he was a regular at AFL level. You will also see I thought Mullett showed plenty before he was given his (regular) chance. Certain players show their best with better players around them at a higher level, plus with far more space, to show their work due to the faster pace of AFL footy.

VFL form and stats to me overall though is a poor guide. Especially for exposed players at AFL level who have already failed their chances so far (which includes BMac and Harper). A player at VFL level who shows signs of AFL talent always is close to a game, and our selection shows that as we generally pick the same players for injury cover etc. That is understandable, the coaches see them every day and know where they are at.

ps: Regardless of McKenzie or Harper though, I am convinced Wood will be a quality player as he has skills and physical size above VFL standard, and I am happy to cop it if he doesn't make it.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

^ You've changed your tune then. Last week you were all about Harper not doing enough at VFL level and needing to do more there before being considered for AFL selection. Now you are saying that Harper has failed in his AFL chances.

You were far less wrong last week.

 

[Devington]

Is not up to the required level in a lot of areas.

I agree. Brisbane was an especially bad example. However I don't think he's too far off, and he appears to be fairly driven. In numerous games where the team in general actually rocked up, he's been an asset. Personally I don't have much of a problem with him playing before he's at the "required level", as long as it's due to circumstance (injury) and/or team balance (need outside kicking).

For example, I could see him replacing Anthony in the side, if it weren't to affect our overall run and carry ability. When/If Wells gets back on the park Mackenzie may well join him, as Wells could offset his lack of pace and ability to get ball, and also mean opposition teams aren't able to put as much work into him. It's all hypothetical, and only my opinion, but I guess I just wanted to voice the fact that even if he isn't necessarily hitting all of the KPI's we'd like, he could still be useful to the team as he is right now.

 

[Saintly31]

^ You've changed your tune then. Last week you were all about Harper not doing enough at VFL level and needing to do more there before being considered for AFL selection. Now you are saying that Harper has failed in his AFL chances.

You were far less wrong last week.

No.

I said Harper didn't deserve an AFL game as his VFL form didn't warrant it.

That stands.

I also think Scott thinks the same re; VFL form as he isn't selected. So yes, he failed his AFL test otherwise he wouldn't already be playing in the 2s.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

No.

I said Harper didn't deserve a game as his VFL form didn't warrant it.

That stands. I think Scott thinks the same as he wasn't selected. And yes, he failed his AFL test despite positive footy shown - does him being in the 2s for some time not obviously show you that?

And I'm saying that your first line is inconsistent with today's view that "VFL form and stats to me overall though is a poor guide". Your quote.

I think Harps couldn't have added any less than Anthony in recent weeks and it's bogus to hold him to the same standard when his ceiling is so much higher. He didn't 'fail' his AFL test, he got injured.

 

[Saintly31]

And I'm saying that your first line is inconsistent with today's view that "VFL form and stats to me overall though is a poor guide". Your quote.

I think Harps couldn't have added any less than Anthony in recent weeks and it's bogus to hold him to the same standard when his ceiling is so much higher. He didn't 'fail' his AFL test, he got injured.

VFL form is a poor guide.

Your opinion suggests Harper couldn't fail any less than Anthony. Your opinion is different to our coaches.

No, he failed his AFL test. Was given more than enough chances and showed very promising signs, but otherwise was ordinary. Only someone with Harper sunglasses on could think otherwise as it's pretty obvious that he is playing in the 2s for a reason.

 

[Heaps of fun]

VFL form is a poor guide.

Your opinion suggests Harper couldn't fail any less than Anthony. Your opinion is different to our coaches.

No, he failed his AFL test. Was given more than enough chances and showed very promising signs, but otherwise was ordinary. Only someone with Harper sunglasses on could think otherwise as it's pretty obvious that he is playing in the 2s for a reason.

And you'd never disagree with our coaches would you, Saintly?

 

[Saintly31]

And you'd never disagree with our coaches would you, Saintly?

Ha. Never

But when someone can hardly get a kick at VFL level (let alone those that do and still don't cut it), then I'm prepared to trust them.

 

[Phillyroo]

I replied to this post:

Not sure if I am missing something?

In previous posts I never questioned his character nor intent, but his actual physical capacity right now to get the job done at AFL level and that is why I would like to see him spend the rest of the year dominating the VFL, then get stronger and fitter over the preseason.

Yep, so saying he tries to avoid contact at AFL level, is questioning his character?
Woweeeee, c'mon man.
I'm sure he is a cracking bloke, and like you, I think the rest of the year in the VFL and a big preseason could change that.

 

[archereleven]

I got stuck into him after the Brissy game especially, and until he proves me wrong, ill continue to do it.

Do i think he's soft? Bloody oath i do atm
Do i think he should spend the rest of the season in the VFL? Probably. I want him to succeed when he nexts gets a gig.
Can he turn it around and become a bloody good player? Maybe, and i hope he does sooner rather than later.

Getting stuck into him doesnt help, but neither does avoiding contact and having the intensity of a turtle on valium when you come into the 1's

 

[Saintly31]

Getting stuck into him doesnt help, but neither does avoiding contact and having the intensity of a turtle on valium when you come into the 1's

That's an insult to turtles on valium on evidence so far.

Kicks far better than any turtle fortunately though.

 

[chazwazza]

I'm interested to know Kangaroo supporters thoughts on Brad. I'm a diehard Sturt supporter in the SANFL and have tried to keep an eye on him since being drafted, I get the idea that he's gone off the radar a bit.

 

[LB2Snake]

I'm interested to know Kangaroo supporters thoughts on Brad. I'm a diehard Sturt supporter in the SANFL and have tried to keep an eye on him since being drafted, I get the idea that he's gone off the radar a bit.

BMac has failed to live up to expectations at this point chazwazza. Looks laconic, which is a BF no-no.
One thing that has surprised me has been his lack of want, almost, for the physical stuff. The tank and composure etc etc are all variables that take different times with different players, but he's almost looked reticent to really go hard at the ball. His kicking is ridiculous, but his inability to actually get the thing, or look like he desperately wants the thing, puts him in the one-trick-pony basket, at the minute. Hoping things change rapidly for the kid, as we desperately need quality ball users and there is opportunities in our side for him.

 

[chazwazza]

Cheers for that. In going back briefly in his games this year it looks as though he doesn't perform against the better clubs and loads up in the easier games. Would love to have him back at Sturt but hopefully Scott can get some mongrel into him.

 

[LB2Snake]

Cheers for that. In going back briefly in his games this year it looks as though he doesn't perform against the better clubs and loads up in the easier games. Would love to have him back at Sturt but hopefully Scott can get some mongrel into him.

I don't have those stats handy, but if you are correct he's completely out of touch with the rest of his teammates.

 

[LB2Snake]

For the record chazwazza , I hope you never see him play for Sturt, as that will more than likely mean he's succeeded here at North. I'm a huge wrap for him, but his intensity is a worry.

 

[Carnthe]

Cheers for that. In going back briefly in his games this year it looks as though he doesn't perform against the better clubs and loads up in the easier games. Would love to have him back at Sturt but hopefully Scott can get some mongrel into him.

Not sure about that - played probably his best game with 25 touches against Port when they were undefeated. Speaking of best games, we had 12 players with over 20 touches that game compared to only 5 against Brisbane and Carlton! How's that for a bunch of lazy under performing pricks, but I digress.

 

[chazwazza]

Yep, that game against Port being the glaring exception