2012 List Management - Drafts, Trading and Delistings

[adam10]

Decided to take a closer look at our list, our very much struggling list seeing there isn't much positives going for us at the moment. We have a lot of picks including 5 in the top 40 in this years 'super' draft. So here's a little bit of a closer look at our list as it goes.

Small/Medium Defenders(10):

- Dylan Addison
- Lindsay Gilbee
- Ryan Hargrave
- Dale Morris
- Robert Murphy
- Daniel Pearce
- Fletcher Roberts
- Patrick Veszpremi
- Easton Wood
- Jason Johannisen

Fair amount of depth here, but not tons of quality if I'm being honest. A lot of ageing players too add to that lack of quality. I don't see Gilbee and Hargrave being on our 2013 list, I think we might look for a late draft pick for Lindsay if GWS/GC show any interest and I think Shaggy may retire, both have been great servants. Dale Morris, God knows if he will return, coming off a broken leg I think he is a 50/50. If it was up to me Addison wouldn't be at the club next season either if it was up to me but Macca seems to like him/

Easton Wood has the ability to be a 200 game player, he needs to become a much more consistent player though, Bob Murphy will keep on keeping on next season. Patty Vez has another gear to reach and he could be a pretty ideal replacement for Hargrave. If JJ comes along it would be a huge bonus for this club, he's exactly what we lack right now and I see a little bit of Jarrod Harbrow about him. Fletcher and pearce are both very young and raw and will be given a lot more time to develop.

Key Position Defenders(6):

- Mark Austin
- Brian Lake
- Lukas Markovic
- James Mulligan
- Michael Talia
- Tom Williams

I quite like our depth here. Lake should be our full-back for the next 2 years unless we get a complete winning trade. I have like Austins year so far and I think he has a real future playing on the 3rd tall. If we can keep Tom Williams fit next season that'd be an extra bonus, although he played forward on the weekend I still see him as a long term CHB.

James Mulligan has to go, tries hard but his time is more then up. Talia and Markovic will be the depth. Hopefully we can grow Talia into a player like Brian.

 

[adam10]

Outside Midfielders(5):

- Adam Cooney
- Ryan Griffen
- Christian Howard
- Justin Sherman
- Jason Tutt

Laugh out loud. Our two top 10 draft picks should be aimed right here. Need two players who have elite skills and the ability to run. A Stephen Hill or an Andrew Gaff would be perfect at the moment.

Who knows what's going to happen with Cooney, he could still be a handy depth player with his buggerd knee. Howard for me should be playing on the wing, not in the back pocket as his ball use is quite nice. Tutt has a big future at this club and he's a 60 meter player. Griff's a star and Sherman is on very thin ice, the next 5 games are huge for his career here next season.

Inside Midfielders(9):

- Matthew Boyd
- Daniel Cross
- Tom Liberatore
- Brodie Moles
- Liam Picken
- Clay Smith
- Mitch Wallis
- Lin Jong
- Alex Greenwood

We have a fair amount of depth here and quite good quality. Boyd will carry on as skipper next season I think, Cross is very much ageing and could become a very fringe player next season. Libba and Wallis are the future of this club, they are going to be great footballers and they have shown very early there going to be great. Picken will remain our tagger, the guy is amazing and goes under the radar.

Moles wouldn't make my list for next season. Jong would though and I think the way he is playing for Willy he deserves a spot on our senior list as he'll be very handy depth. Clay Smith has a lot of areas that need work but again he at the moment is a handy depth player until he reaches the next level. Greenwood is a 50/50 at the moment.

Rucks(3):

Will Minson
Jordan Roughead
Tom Campbell

This is an interesting one because with the apparent interest from GWS in Minson, if we can get overs for him it could be worth trying Roughy or Campbell as our number one ruckmen if we can land a young star. I think Campbell is going to be a very, very good player but at the moment I'm very 50/50 on Roughead. Ayce could have fallen into this category but the way he's being used at the moment he goes under forward category.

 

[adam10]

Small/Medium Forwards(8):

- Luke Dahlhaus
- Tory Dickson
- Nathan Djerrkura
- Daniel Giansiracusa
- Jarrad Grant
- Shaun Higgins
- Andrew Hooper
- Zeph Skinner

Quality isn't too bad here as compared to most other posi's. Dahlhaus is a complete gem and we pray he turns into more of a midfielder then a half forward in the up-coming years. Tory Dickson is a huge find and he'll be present in that forward line for a long time and as will Higgins as much as he gets bashed. Gia has been terrific for us but I think he'll be very fringe next season. Grant and DJ are very 50/50 but I'd keep them both for depth. Hooper goes for me, as I don't think he has the quality required. Zeph Skinner is another who I'd keep for another year as I seem him as a project type player.

Key Position Forwards(5):

- Ayce Cordy
- Tom Hill
- Liam Jones
- Matthew Panos
- Jack Redpath

We can only sit back and pray to the Gods that 1 or 2 of these players from that list come along and become very good forwards for us.

It's a pretty exciting list but boy does it have a long time to go. I think Cordy's going to be a very good footballer, when we become a better footballing side and when he gets more size and exp. Same goes for Jones. I think they may be our future CHF/FF combination. Hill, Panos and Redpath
should all be kept for mine and again we just have to pray we find a gem. Really hope Panos gets a chance to show us his promise towards the end of the season.

Now that's all done, what's your plans for delisting/retirees/trades/draft picks for our list next season.

 

[Frisky Dingo]

Mulligan, Hooper, Moles out ! Shaggy to retire and Gilbee to continue his football else where.
Players like Sherman, DJ, Grant really need to show something quick and soon otherwise they join the list above.

 

[Dry Rot]

It's a pretty exciting list

No it's not, it's possibly now the worst.

I'll buy you some lens cleaner for Xmas to clean those rose coloured glasses.

 

[adam10]

No it's not, it's possibly now the worst.

I'll buy you some lens cleaner for Xmas to clean those rose coloured glasses.

I was referring to the key forwards list, not the list as a whole. Jones and Cordy are exciting players, just right now they are raw and inexpieranced and asked to hold down a key position and take the best defender at 20 years old. Yeah they are struggling now but could imagine in a few more years with a lot more size and a lot more quality service.

I don't the rose coloured glasses, cause un-like you it seems I can see a little bit more past their statistics for this season in an awful team.

 

[Dry Rot]

I was referring to the key forwards list, not the list as a whole.

So you agree the rest is pretty awful?

Dunno what you see in Cordy and Jones - I really hope we use one of our first round draft picks on a real tall forward.

 

[TMoney22]

We are now relying to heavily on our late/rookie picks. And thank god a lot of them have turned out pretty good and offer some depth, however they won't win us finals. Grant, Williams, Howard, Higgins, Cooney, Cordy, Vez/Everitt should all be better than they are, these are the players we should be relying on to turn games. They don't. Cooney is just bad luck but highlights others.

 

[adam10]

So you agree the rest is pretty awful?

Dunno what you see in Cordy and Jones - I really hope we use one of our first round draft picks on a real tall forward.

As I said at the start of my OP it's a very much struggling list with limited talent at the moment.

I see more in Cordy than Jones ATM, he's got a lot of versatility for a big guy and has good movement. He has a lot to develop mentally and psychically but he's going to be a weapon as a forward who can go into the ruck.

Jones was 5th in the most contested marks for the comp last season, the potential is there he has just gone through the motions and struggled to string any consistency.

Most key forwards take 3-4 years to develop, our fans seem to forget this.

 

[Bazza Bulldog]

So you agree the rest is pretty awful?

Dunno what you see in Cordy and Jones - I really hope we use one of our first round draft picks on a real tall forward.

Thanks A-10 for the analysis ... much appreciated! Very comprehensive. FWIW I'd roll the dice on a Minno trade if we can get overs. We need to look long-term, suffer more STerm pain IMO. A different take on the list below, based on age at season opening 2013. From this I'd ...

Delist: Moles, Hooper, Mulligan

Trade possibility/Delist: Skinner, Hill, Grant, Sherman, DJ, Vespa, Gilbee, Shaggy, Cooney (with regret)

Age at April 1 2013

30 + (8 Players)

Gia 31
Gilbee 31
Hargrave 31
Lake 31
Boyd 30
Cross 30
Morris 30
Murphy 30

26-29 (8 Players)

Minson 27 (28 two weeks later)
Cooney 27
Moles 27
Griffin 26
Markovic 26
Picken 26
Sherman 26
Williams 26

23-25 (10 players)

Addison 25
Dickson 25
Higgins 25
Djerrkura 24
Austin 24 (R)
Grant 23
Mulligan 23
Skinner 23
Veszpremi 23
Wood 23

21-22 (10 players)

Cordy 22
Hooper 22
Howard 22
Jones 22
Panos 22
Roughead 22
Redpath 22 (R)
Hill 21 (22 1 week later)
Campbell 21 (R)
Tutt 21

18-20 (10 players)

Dahlhaus 20
Liberatore 20
Wallis 20
Pearce 20
Talia 20
Johannisen 20 (R)
Roberts 19
Smith 19
Greenwood 19 (R)
Jong 19(R)

 

[Bazza Bulldog]

If

Thanks A-10 for the analysis ... much appreciated! Very comprehensive. FWIW I'd roll the dice on a Minno trade if we can get overs. We need to look long-term, suffer more STerm pain IMO. A different take on the list below, based on age at season opening 2013. From this I'd ...

Delist: Moles, Hooper, Mulligan

Trade possibility/Delist: Skinner, Hill, Grant, Sherman, DJ, Vespa, Gilbee, Shaggy, Cooney (with regret)

Age at April 1 2013

30 + (8 Players)

Gia 31
Gilbee 31
Hargrave 31
Lake 31
Boyd 30
Cross 30
Morris 30
Murphy 30

26-29 (8 Players)

Minson 27 (28 two weeks later)
Cooney 27
Moles 27
Griffin 26
Markovic 26
Picken 26
Sherman 26
Williams 26

23-25 (10 players)

Addison 25
Dickson 25
Higgins 25
Djerrkura 24
Austin 24 (R)
Grant 23
Mulligan 23
Skinner 23
Veszpremi 23
Wood 23

21-22 (10 players)

Cordy 22
Hooper 22
Howard 22
Jones 22
Panos 22
Roughead 22
Redpath 22 (R)
Hill 21 (22 1 week later)
Campbell 21 (R)
Tutt 21

18-20 (10 players)

Dahlhaus 20
Liberatore 20
Wallis 20
Pearce 20
Talia 20
Johannisen 20 (R)
Roberts 19
Smith 19
Greenwood 19 (R)
Jong 19(R)

Plus if anyone was wondering why no-one in the 28-29 bracket ... Jordy McMahon and Sam Power

 

[melbman]

Good analysis Adam10 i think a lot of it was on the money.

Looking at bazzas list the problem is so obviously evident, the majority of our best players are in the oldest bracket, some great talent in the younger ones, and very little in between. Any team that is a premiership threat needs the majority in the middle bracket so that shows we are about 5 years off being a serious threat i would say.

We went so close a few years back and now like all teams we are starting our decline. Geelong have started but are no where near us but they will keep going back in the next 3 years as will the saints.

 

[arkie]

You put Dahlhaus as a small forward. Hasn't he been played as a mid most of the year? I think you have overrated our small/medium forward position. The only good players there are Higgins who has played poorly this year and Dahlhaus. Dickson is a serviceable player but the rest are done or won't make it IMO.

Anyway, like others have said in the draft thread that we need outside mids I still would choose Oliver Wines if available in the first round considering all of our past dud picks.

I would delist Mulligan, Hooper, DJ, Skinner, Sherman and Moles. Gilbee to punt in the NFL!

Good analysis overall.

 

[Sharkey66]

If we get the two gun outside mids everyone is expecting, this would allow Dahl to go back to the forward line filling the small forward role we are sadly lacking at the moment.
Mulligan, Hooper, Gilbee , Hargrave and unfortunatly Hill and or Panos to all Finnish this year, sadly Minson will take a good offer from another club and leave under free agency, Sherman to be shopped around, maybe Moles as well.
For what its worth no rookies should be elevated this year, there is simply no need, they are already on the list so no-one else can touch them although Cambell would most likely be elevated if Minno chooses to leave (or is traded).
That should give about 6 or seven spots open on the list.

 

[Mr. Walker]

Delist: Moles, Hooper, Mulligan

Trade possibility/Delist: Skinner, Hill, Grant, Sherman, DJ, Vespa, Gilbee, Shaggy, Cooney (

19(R)

Agree with all those as delistings - except for Hill, Grant and maybe Vez. Vez worries me, he has been held back long enough that the penny should have dropped on how he has to apply himself but apparently not. I think he has something to offer but last chance. Same for Grant.

To the delist list I would add

Markovick - Austin and Roberts and Talia provide depth

Addison-limitations

I still have hopes Cooney can play a role and Sherman one last chance

 

[Rookie]

For what its worth no rookies should be elevated this year, there is simply no need, they are already on the list so no-one else can touch them although Cambell would most likely be elevated if Minno chooses to leave (or is traded).
That should give about 6 or seven spots open on the list.

Crazy talk. We can cut the list back further and still promote rookies. You have to ask yourself, is there a possibility this rookie could be in our best 22 in round one, 2013? If yes, you've got to promote them. The absolute dumbest thing would be to not promote a guy who has deserved it, and then be unable to pick him when you need him in the next season.

You're essentially proposing we keep Austin on the rookie list. He's borderline top 22! You've got to promote those guys.
The 'fat' that needs to be trimmed from our senior list is so large that everyone on the rookie list who deserves it can be promoted and we can still have 5-6 draft picks.

 

[Rookie]

Question: will Macca go the big clean out at the end of the year? We were conservative I felt at the end of last year, we've kept a few blokes a year too long IMO. I see our list as being overburdened with guys we brought on or kept as we hoped they could be the final 5% we needed in a push to a flag. It's now clear that flag isn't coming, and that these top up players cannot lead us forward.
Will Macca see it this way and go for an old-fashioned clean out so that he can bring in kids of his own to teach from scratch? Or will he disappoint me and keep a fair percentage of the blokes on the periphery who I see as list cloggers?

 

[Dog1]

Due to the ruck options we have, should we consider trading Roughhead for a early draft choice or for a ready made midfielder with skill.
Minson will be our 1st ruck option for the next year or 2 with Campbell as back up and eventually taking over the first ruck then if we really get desperate Cordy or maybe Hill
can step in.
Roughy has shown that his tap work is just ok as well as his marking but we might get something for him as other clubs could see potential.
What are people's thoughts on this?

 

[dogzrule]

Due to the ruck options we have, should we consider trading Roughhead for a early draft choice or for a ready made midfielder with skill.
Minson will be our 1st ruck option for the next year or 2 with Campbell as back up and eventually taking over the first ruck then if we really get desperate Cordy or maybe Hill
can step in.
Roughy has shown that his tap work is just ok as well as his marking but we might get something for him as other clubs could see potential.
What are people's thoughts on this?

Roughead is still young and will not reach his best for 2-3 years. With Minson this is it, in AFL terms a good ordinary player, trade him while there is value as I dont think he will be at his best the next time we are pushing for finals where Roughead, Campbell and Cordy will

 

[Sharkey66]

Crazy talk. We can cut the list back further and still promote rookies. You have to ask yourself, is there a possibility this rookie could be in our best 22 in round one, 2013? If yes, you've got to promote them. The absolute dumbest thing would be to not promote a guy who has deserved it, and then be unable to pick him when you need him in the next season.

You're essentially proposing we keep Austin on the rookie list. He's borderline top 22! You've got to promote those guys.
The 'fat' that needs to be trimmed from our senior list is so large that everyone on the rookie list who deserves it can be promoted and we can still have 5-6 draft picks.

We have guys on the list already that deserve (arguably) a shot in Roberts and Talia, even Hill and Panos playing down back if they are retained, Austin is as you say Borderline 22. Very borderline, i,m still not convinced he is good enough, and with Addison, Williams and even Morris next season if he makes it back, all available, he would be depth anyway. Plenty of time to promote him next season if he is needed. We can promote a rookie at the start of the season and round 11 i believe, so plenty of opportunity to give him another shot, or indeed anyone else if the deserve it. That's not even taking the LTI list into account.

End of the day its just what I think should happen, just my opinion so feel free to disagree

 

[Dog1]

We have guys on the list already that deserve (arguably) a shot in Roberts and Talia, even Hill and Panos playing down back if they are retained, Austin is as you say Borderline 22. Very borderline, i,m still not convinced he is good enough, and with Addison, Williams and even Morris next season if he makes it back, all available, he would be depth anyway. Plenty of time to promote him next season if he is needed. We can promote a rookie at the start of the season and round 11 i believe, so plenty of opportunity to give him another shot, or indeed anyone else if the deserve it. That's not even taking the LTI list into account.

End of the day its just what I think should happen, just my opinion so feel free to disagree

I agree with some of your options for playing down back but Austin is in our best 22 this year and whether Morris comes back we will have to wait and see.
I cannot understand why Panos keeps getting mentioned by people as I would suggest he has not been picked is because the coach's do not rate him.
He is not tall enough for key position and his only real attribute is his kicking but you need to be able to get the ball to kick it.

 

[adam10]

Mulligan, Hooper and Moles would be definite 3 delistings at this point in time.

 

[adam10]

Is it weird that I think Austin is in our best 18 when Morris is out?

 

[cleveland]

This is what i would like.................pick 1 and 2 outside mid..............pick 3 and 4 small/medium forward

 

[Rookie]

Is it weird that I think Austin is in our best 18 when Morris is out?

I think he's overtaken Shaggy as a third tall. I rate him as our first port of call if Lake, Williams or Morris is out. So perhaps not our absolute hypothetical best, but he is close. Greg testament to him that he's come on decently and overtaken Markovic (IMO)