NFL 2012 NFL Pre-Season - Discussion

[Blacky]

Looks like Elway has booted Xanders as GM.

 

[Woodson]

Hi guys,

Dont know if this is the right place to post this but im in New york over new years and want to go to the Giants vs Eagles game at Metlife arena.

Is this even possible or do they sell out every game? if its possible how do i go about getting tickets?

Cheers

GO HERE: >>> NFL Ticketing thread.

But if you want to know who to contact @ the G-Men's front office: ask for John Gorman (201) 935-8111. Good Luck HBF.

 

[Sven]

An amended Vikings stadium bill has been passed in the lower house 73-58.

The amended bill reduced the Minnesota state contribution by $105 million, meaning that the private contribution must be raised by the same amount. Whether or not this reduction remains in the bill when it is voted in the Senate tomorrow is unclear at this time.

Whether or not the team owners and/or the NFL will pony up the extra $105 million should it remain in the Bill is also unclear.

 

[GreyWind]

Sheesh Nato Dog, how about some Cam Newton LOVE?
Surely deserves a mention with the following NFL rookie breaking campaign for most yards in a game (432 yards vs GB)
Most passing yards in a rookie season (4,051)
First rookie to pass 400+ in back to back games (vs Arz & GB)
First rookie to run 10 & throw 10 TD's
Most TD's by a rookie (35, 21 pass - 14 run)
Most rushing yards by a rookie (706) & Rushing TD's (14)

just to rattle a few here..

I have a lot of love for Cam, just right now I'm not sure where to put him as he has only played one season and I'm waiting to reserve full judgement of him as of right now. I expect though by the end of this season he will be in either my 2nd tier or 3rd tier of QBs.

Romo and Cutler are very underrated imo. BTW where is Vince Young?

Do not rate in the slightest. Sure he has talent but he has so many red flags surrounding him it's not funny.

 

[Brasher]

Personally this is how I rate the QBs.

Tier 1:
Rodgers, Brees, Brady (P.Manning depending on his return).

Tier 2:
E.Manning, Stafford, Roethlisberger, Rivers

Tier 3:
Schaub, Cutler, Romo, Ryan

Tier 4:
Vick, Hasselbeck, Flacco, Palmer


Also the Texans would have to be the most balanced team going into the season and I see them as serious Superbowl contenders.

Love or hate him, Eli Manning I think has earnt the right to be considered Tier 1 and he has the SB rings to prove it.

I guess the comment about Texans being the most balanced team also confirms that you don't rate Alex Smith much either. Probably fair enough but his last twenty starts suggest he may be better than some of the guys you list above. But like you, I'd probably want to see him improve further this year to be ranked as one of the better QBs.

 

[Dagless]

Love or hate him, Eli Manning I think has earnt the right to be considered Tier 1 and he has the SB rings to prove it.

I guess the comment about Texans being the most balanced team also confirms that you don't rate Alex Smith much either. Probably fair enough but his last twenty starts suggest he may be better than some of the guys you list above. But like you, I'd probably want to see him improve further this year to be ranked as one of the better QBs.

 

[tb_fanboy]

I have a lot of love for Cam, just right now I'm not sure where to put him as he has only played one season and I'm waiting to reserve full judgement of him as of right now. I expect though by the end of this season he will be in either my 2nd tier or 3rd tier of QBs.
.

Just wondering does this apply to Tim Tebow? I know he's been on a roster a year longer but despite winning a playoff game is yet to start a full season. Or have you judged him as a bad QB already?

 

[Exe Gesis]

Good article, scouting Russell Wilson....

I scouted Russell Wilson before I included him in my “Quarterbacks of interest” series in late 2011. Typically when I scout a player I cover the basics (arm strength, mobility, style of offense, intangibles, etc) without delving ultra deep. I came away from my initial scouting experience of Wilson with a remarkably positive impression. I thought Wilson had the best tape of any quarterback in this draft. That said- if the players with the best tape always made for the best professional athletes, then teams would never draft busts nor spend millions on their scouting departments. That’s why it’s critical to determine whether a player’s skills will project to the next level or not. After breaking down Wilson twice, I am completely convinced that height will not effect him almost at all in the NFL.

However, there have been a handful of other concerns for Wilson, which I think are fair game. Today, I’m going to break down the common assertion that Wilson’s accuracy “dips” when taking throws in the pocket. For this exercise, I used the three compilations available on Youtube: Ohio State, Michigan State, and Michigan State again in the Big 10 championship game.

@ Michigan State

One of the things that jumped out at me while charting all three of these games was how many of Wilson’s passes were attempted from the pocket. Granted, the definition is a bit nebulous as Wilson moves around so much. I generally considered the play to be a pocket pass if it was designed as such and thrown in an area that was intentional grounding eligible. I excluded bootlegs or scrambles that took Wilson clearly outside the tackles. For a guy that is so athletic and so short, I was surprised to see that Wisconsin didn’t move him outside the pocket more often.

Wilson threw 21 passes in this game. 16 of them were thrown from the pocket. Wilson went 10/16 in the pocket and 4/5 outside the pocket.

Of those six pocket incompletions, two were intercepted. The first interception was actually receiver Nick Toon’s fault for failing to look for the ball and adjust his route accordingly. The second interception was a desperation deep throw across Wilson’s body that was slightly overthrown. Had he been throwing to Sidney Rice, it probably would have been caught for a huge gain, but unfortunately for Wilson, his target didn’t quite have enough juice in the tank to reach it, and a converging defensive back swooped in for a sideline pick. This was still arguably a poor decision for Wilson, and it was also an over-thrown ball. Had it been throw a tiny bit less, he would have had a huge completion instead of a pick. These would be the only two interceptions Wilson would throw in any of the three games.

Of the four remaining incompletions, one was a perfect deep ball that his receiver dropped. Another was a hot read that led his target too much. It wasn’t a great pass, but it’s the kind that should have been caught just the same. Wilson’s two remaining incompletions were over-throws, including one that blew a sure touchdown.

Wilson also had an incompletion that didn’t count because it was ruled intentional grounding for a safety.

Wilson finished 10/16 in the pocket, good for a 62.5% completion rate. He was 4/5 outside the pocket, good for 80%. If you give Wilson credit for the two balls his receivers dropped, his pocket number increases to 75%.

Misc notes:

Wilson did not have a single throwaway in this game. He hates to give up on plays and will almost always make something happen.

Wilson’s high completion numbers are even more impressive when you consider that he throws deep very often. Wilson made plenty of mistakes in this game, and faced a very tough defense that barely gave him time to throw, and yet he still finished with over 10 yards per attempt.

Wilson’s big hands help him out a lot. Wilson has a terrific pump fake because he can grip the ball so well. He also has a nifty quick shovel pass and therefore effective fake shovel pass move.

Wilson isn’t as great a rusher as his combine speed would make you think, but he can buy time in the pocket like few quarterbacks can, while keeping his eyes (deep) downfield at all times.

Play action and bootlegs work well for Wilson’s skill set. Bootlegs have an obvious benefit: they get him outside the pocket and they take advantage of his speed to buy time. The play action also benefits Wilson because the act of turning around and running to the fake handoff has the added effect of dropping Wilson deeper into the pocket in less time than a normal dropback would.

Wilson had an awesome run for a TD in this game that was sprung by a perfect pump fake on the run to freeze an enclosing defender. Wilson’s hard sell on his pump fake is one of his biggest weapons.

@ Ohio State

Another tough defense on the road. Wilson took a fair number of sacks in this game as Ohio State has a very athletic defensive line.

Wilson threw 32 passes in this game, and only 4 of them were attempted outside the pocket despite all the pressure Ohio State brought all game long.

Wilson went 17/28 (61%) in the pocket and 3/4 (75%) outside of it.

Four of Wilson’s eleven pocket incompletions were throwaways forced by pressure or coverage. Another was a drop where the receiver took a hit and couldn’t hold on. Wilson also had an incompletion where he was hit as he threw. More than half of Wilson’s pocket incompletons in this game had zero to do with his accuracy. Most of Wilson’s remaining incompletions were over-throws on mid-to-deep pass attempts. Take those six “excusable” incompletions out of the data set, and Wilson would have finished 17/22 in the pocket, a rate of 77%.

Michigan State (Big 10 championship game)

Wilson went 16/22 (73%) from inside the pocket and 1/2 (50%) outside the pocket in this game.

Wilson’s receivers really came through for him in this game, making several tough catches including a crucial catch on 4th and 6 late in the game. They didn’t drop a single pass either.

Wilson also erased one of his potential incompletions when he caught his own pass after it was batted back to him. Wilson is one of the few quarterbacks who is electric enough as a runner to actually make it worth catching his own pass, although sadly he lost two yards on the play.

Misc notes:

Wilson has a snappy fast shovel pass. At one point early in the game a pass rusher came off the edge unblocked and Wilson froze the guy with a fake shovel pass then ran around him. It was awesome. Later Wilson scored with an actual shovel pass near the goal line after sucking in the defense by showing intent to run the ball outside.

Wilson caught a pass from his running back for a big gain. NFL defenses will have to account for Wilson even when the ball isn’t in his hands.

Conclusion:

Wilson doesn’t really have a pocket accuracy problem. He does have a bit of a deep ball over-throw issue, and Wilson throws a lot of deep passes. Because Wilson typically throws deep from within the pocket, his overall accuracy completion numbers dip as a result. As for the reason why Wilson is good for a handful of overthrows a game, I’m not exactly sure of the reason, but I suspect it’s because he doesn’t step into his deep throws when making them from the pocket very often, instead relying on pure arm strength and overcompensating as a result.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Just wondering does this apply to Tim Tebow? I know he's been on a roster a year longer but despite winning a playoff game is yet to start a full season. Or have you judged him as a bad QB already?

Tebow isnt even the starter of his own team.

 

[Brasher]

The Big Brother skit on SNL cracked me up "but my names not Peyton".

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Ravens sign ex-Texan Jacoby Jones. Must be reward for the 2 fumbles in last year's Texans-Ravens game.

 

[hayes]

Just wondering does this apply to Tim Tebow? I know he's been on a roster a year longer but despite winning a playoff game is yet to start a full season. Or have you judged him as a bad QB already?

Tebow doesn't have a tier. He's awful.

 

[GreyWind]

Love or hate him, Eli Manning I think has earnt the right to be considered Tier 1 and he has the SB rings to prove it.

Eli is in my Tier 2 at the moment simply because of his inconsistency throughout the season, if he has a good season again this year he is into my 1st Tier.

I guess the comment about Texans being the most balanced team also confirms that you don't rate Alex Smith much either. Probably fair enough but his last twenty starts suggest he may be better than some of the guys you list above. But like you, I'd probably want to see him improve further this year to be ranked as one of the better QBs.

I want to see him be more than a game manager and seeing how long he has been in the league for he needs to do more, I understand he has had a poor team but he needs to take the next step.

Just wondering does this apply to Tim Tebow? I know he's been on a roster a year longer but despite winning a playoff game is yet to start a full season. Or have you judged him as a bad QB already?

Is a good football player but a terrible QB, I don't even rate him as a QB.

 

[catters078]

eli is tier 2 september through to xmas

from xmas through to february he's tier 1.

 

[juddy_Like]

Eli is in my Tier 2 at the moment simply because of his inconsistency throughout the season, if he has a good season again this year he is into my 1st Tier.

13,000 yards the past 3 years is inconsistent?

I'll leave it at that.

 

[GreyWind]

eli is tier 2 september through to xmas

from xmas through to february he's tier 1.

I'll agree with that statement. Which is why I want to see him dominate throughout an entire year before I put him into my top tier.

13,000 yards the past 3 years is inconsistent?

I'll leave it at that.

Anybody can put up yards in the NFL today.

Manning: 87tds to 55ints, Ratings of 92.9 (2011), 85.3 (2010), 93.1 (2009), 12,955yds, completed 1015/1637 for 62%

In that time:

Tier 1:
Rodgers: 103tds to 24ints, 122.5 (2011), 101.2 (2010), 103.2 (2009), 12,999yds, completed 1005/1500 for 67%

Brady: 103tds to 29ints, 105.6 (2011), 111.0 (2010), 96.2 (2009), 13,533yds, completed 1096/1668 for 65.7%

Brees: 113tds to 47ints, 110.6 (2011), 90.9 (2010), 109.6 (2009), 14,484yds, completed 1279/1829 for 69.9%

So Eli didn't reach 100tds, put up more interceptions, didn't reach a passer rating of 100+, threw less yards and had a less passes completed = Tier 2

 

[juddy_Like]

I'll agree with that statement. Which is why I want to see him dominate throughout an entire year before I put him into my top tier.

This is the thing people forget.
Did Eli dominate to the level of say Rodgers?? No.
But did Eli keep the Giants above water and some-what close to the playoff race? Yes.

Lets remember...
Next to the worst running game.
A receiving corp barely anyone would of put in the top 15 pre-season.
TEs - next question
D-line inconsistent.
LBs who can't play the pass.

Anybody can put up yards in the NFL today.

Manning: 87tds to 55ints, Ratings of 92.9 (2011), 85.3 (2010), 93.1 (2009), 12,955yds, completed 1015/1637 for 62%

Yes but doesn't this pretty much illustrate my point. Even if you include his massive INTs in 2010 when most of them were from receivers tipping the ball in the air, he has been quite consistent.

Tier 1:
Rodgers: 103tds to 24ints, 122.5 (2011), 101.2 (2010), 103.2 (2009), 12,999yds, completed 1005/1500 for 67%

Brady: 103tds to 29ints, 105.6 (2011), 111.0 (2010), 96.2 (2009), 13,533yds, completed 1096/1668 for 65.7%

Brees: 113tds to 47ints, 110.6 (2011), 90.9 (2010), 109.6 (2009), 14,484yds, completed 1279/1829 for 69.9%

Heres another stat for you:
Ranked #1 in 4th qrt TDs in NFL history
6 4th qrt comebacks 2011

and this isn't elite?

 

[GreyWind]

This is the thing people forget.
Did Eli dominate to the level of say Rodgers?? No.
But did Eli keep the Giants above water and some-what close to the playoff race? Yes.

That's what I'm saying Rodgers, Brees and Brady were dominant and consistent something that Manning has had trouble with.

Lets remember...
Next to the worst running game.
A receiving corp barely anyone would of put in the top 15 pre-season.
TEs - next question
D-line inconsistent.
LBs who can't play the pass.

The bolded is everything wrong that the Packers had and were even worse than the Giants in 2 of those cases, underlined is something that while is considered a strength of the Packers with Finley's drops throughout the season and minimal talent behind him became a bit of a weakness.

Heres another stat for you:
Ranked #1 in 4th qrt TDs in NFL history
6 4th qrt comebacks 2011

and this isn't elite?

No, if he was as good as you are saying he wouldn't need those 4th qrt comebacks, while it's nice to know he can do it, what happens next year if he fails in all of those 6 attempts?

After a bit more searching I found Tim Tebow also had 6 4th qrt comebacks in 2011. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/comeback.cgi?player=TeboTi00

 

[Southerntakeover]

Eli's last quarter drives kept the Giants in the playoffs, and his play in the playoffs won them the superbowl. Hes elite. Whether I like it or not.

If he could beat the Eagles, the Giants would have had a dynasty.

 

[Woodson]

Heres another stat for you:
Ranked #1 in 4th qrt TDs in NFL history
6 4th qrt comebacks 2011

and this isn't elite?

I don't have any issue with rating Eli Manning as 'Elite'... he's proven it many times despite his restrained demeanor. Good on him.

Here's an article from Bleachers.. for Nato Dog & any other doubters to read over. Just sayin'..

FWIW..for QB ratings, simply means BUTKUS really.. it's a TEAM game, O-line factor, critical blocking, catches made, which are all out of the QB's control. These real factors can't be overlooked at the end of the day. Elite QB have 'surprisingly' failed at times to get the job done.

Every QB in the NFL who has a winning record as an NFL starter has the proven ability to play his position. That's all that matters. W's >>> stats.
Don't forget folks, Cam Newton's first W as a QB didn't require him to throw 400 yards. Just sayin'..

People can laugh all they like at Big Ben's low percentage QB rating in SB XL, but the bottom line is that without Ben's outstanding play-off performances in the lead up to the big dance, no way the Steelers make it!

Always great to watch teams with competent QB's behind centre. Most fans can't trust/ respect QB's with a high INT % over TD ratio. That's the nature of the QB rating beast. Tebow is a great story regardless.

 

[Sven]

Barring a last minute hickup with the voting for the final committee agreed Bill it looks like the Vikings will be getting a new stadium in Minnesota.

Full details are in the Vikings team thread.

 

[DaSawx]

Would have been funny if LA stole another purple and yellow team from Minnesota.

 

[Sven]

Would have been funny if LA stole another purple and yellow team from Minnesota.

It's also funny to note that although Soldier Field was completly re-built in 2003 it still has the smallest capacity of any of the NFL Stadiums.

Amazingly, this mimics the mental capacity of the average Bears fan...

 

[tb_fanboy]

Tebow doesn't have a tier. He's awful.

I wasn't having a go at him but was wondering if he reserved football judgment due to his lack of a career so far. Ftr I agree with Nato dog, I'd love to see him as a TE.

 

[DaSawx]

It's also funny to note that although Soldier Field was completly re-built in 2003 it still has the smallest capacity of any of the NFL Stadiums.

Amazingly, this mimics the mental capacity of the average Bears fan...

Ouch

Couldn't give a stuff how big Soldier Field is.