List Mgmt. 2013 Trading & Free Agency
- Thread starter DJ75
- Start date
- Tagged users None
- Status
Pweeff, lucky I'm 22 now then!
Kane McGoodwin
Make me an Admin!
- May 21, 2001
- 81,250
- 81,557
- AFL Club
- Adelaide
- Other Teams
- Adelaide Crows
I wouldn't be mixing our recruiting/list management team with our administration.
IMO, our recruiting/list management team have done a reasonable job over the past few years - excluding last year, when they were effectively mugged by Tippett-gate.
Our administration on the other hand...
- Mar 20, 2004
- 4,275
- 3,023
- AFL Club
- Adelaide
- Other Teams
- South Adelaide, Kenilworth
Is he out of contract? and waiting to be delisted by Brisbane?
Already has been. We could pick him up as a delisted free agent now if we wanted him on our senior list.
Drugs Are Bad Mackay?
Moderator
- May 24, 2006
- 77,217
- 151,342
- AFL Club
- Adelaide
- Other Teams
- Redbacks, Sturt, Liverpool, Arizona
- Moderator
- #20,233
Look, I'm sorry but "the message" that you delivered was just a long-winded version of what every glass half awesome poster has been delivering:
Ie we didn't waste the dollars this year, will help us down the track, front load contracts, free up dollars, just wait until next year... yada yada yada.
Forgive me but this has been engaged ad nauseam for about 500 pages.
I've also gone to great lengths to explain why we needed to use the Tippett dollars this year, and not to take the easy do nothing option of rolling it over into future seasons. Or the even easier option of saying that we're going to roll it over into future seasons, actually not do it, and then hope people forget about all the promises.
If the club has it in mind that 2015 or 2016 we are back in the hunt with picks to trade plus a field of mouth-watering FA targets and that we shouldn't be too hasty now, that is going to compound our current problems. By then... Thompson? Gone or fading significantly. Rutten? Gone or fading significantly. The competition doesn't stand still long enough for us to get our act together. Why assume that all our jets (Danger, Walker, Sloane etc) who are in their prime will put up with a club that is keeping its powder dry and running lean now, for an assault at some unspecified time in the future. Beyond their current contracts anyway.
We've had 2013 running below full throttle and we're now taking that mindset into 2014. How long is an average career? The clock is ticking. And while we're taking several years just to get back to equilibrium, other clubs will be improving: Starting to reap the reward for their 1st/2nd round picks, topping up by Brian Laking it up.
This is why this trade period was so crucial to our club. It was our one opportunity to 'fix' the Tippett situation.
Now - this is nothing new. Posters have been trying to explain this for months and months. But nothing is going in. Instead posters still respond with gash like So you want to pay Polec $500k
and pat the club on the back for the 2015 trade bounty we are no doubt going to receive.
It's all well and good to say how we should have used this supposed cash we've got in the kitty but I'm yet to see you or anyone else suggest an actual legitimate player we should have gone after and how we could have actually pulled it off (if it was a trade).Now - this is nothing new. Posters have been trying to explain this for months and months. But nothing is going in. Instead posters still respond with gash like So you want to pay Polec $500k
Drugs Are Bad Mackay?
Moderator
- May 24, 2006
- 77,217
- 151,342
- AFL Club
- Adelaide
- Other Teams
- Redbacks, Sturt, Liverpool, Arizona
- Moderator
- #20,235
Look, this is just so silly.
You seriously want me to post all the articles where quality players said that they were disappointed that Adelaide didn't make them a big offer, and they instead re-signed with their club?
I can't explain this any more times.
Somewhere between a third and a half of AFL players are coming out of contract every season. It is an absolutely massive field to choose from. Sure, most do sign up with their home club and there are relatively few players who move clubs each season compared to the total number of players in the competition. The difference is when a club with a huge amount of spare cash enters the arena. That is an absolute game changer. Well, it should be.
Do I really have to explain the difference between contracted and uncontracted players? Please tell me that I don't. Again, it's been explained about a thousand times to posters and there just seems to be absolutely nothing going in. People are still saying 'what could we have given Brisbane?' which would be hilarious if it wasn't so mind numbingly sad.
If Jack Gunston had re-signed with us at the end of 2011... do you think he'd have gone down as a player Hawthorn missed out on? Of course not. He would have been one of the 95+% of players who DO re-sign with their original club. Instead Hawthorn were able to prise him loose.
The only card we had to play was the cash card, and we chose not to.
No matter how positive you want to be, no matter how much you want to look on the bright side, to get over it and move on, talk up JPod... no amount of optimism can affect the power of maths:
(Tippett 3 years x $800k) - (Betts 2 years x $500k) = $1.4m
There is a gaping black hole there that we were unwilling or unable to fill.
Look, I'm sorry but "the message" that you delivered was just a long-winded version of what every glass half awesome poster has been delivering:
Ie we didn't waste the dollars this year, will help us down the track, front load contracts, free up dollars, just wait until next year... yada yada yada.
Forgive me but this has been engaged ad nauseam for about 500 pages.
I've also gone to great lengths to explain why we needed to use the Tippett dollars this year, and not to take the easy do nothing option of rolling it over into future seasons. Or the even easier option of saying that we're going to roll it over into future seasons, actually not do it, and then hope people forget about all the promises.
If the club has it in mind that 2015 or 2016 we are back in the hunt with picks to trade plus a field of mouth-watering FA targets and that we shouldn't be too hasty now, that is going to compound our current problems. By then... Thompson? Gone or fading significantly. Rutten? Gone or fading significantly. The competition doesn't stand still long enough for us to get our act together. Why assume that all our jets (Danger, Walker, Sloane etc) who are in their prime will put up with a club that is keeping its powder dry and running lean now, for an assault at some unspecified time in the future. Beyond their current contracts anyway.
We've had 2013 running below full throttle and we're now taking that mindset into 2014. How long is an average career? The clock is ticking. And while we're taking several years just to get back to equilibrium, other clubs will be improving: Starting to reap the reward for their 1st/2nd round picks, topping up by Brian Laking it up.
This is why this trade period was so crucial to our club. It was our one opportunity to 'fix' the Tippett situation.
Now - this is nothing new. Posters have been trying to explain this for months and months. But nothing is going in. Instead posters still respond with gash like So you want to pay Polec $500k
To say we are going into 2014 with the 2013 mindset is a blatant lie to sustain your argument that is quickly slipping from your grasp.
Without posting specific viable alternatives you arguments evaporate. We should have got "someone else" and "thrown money at them" are not solutions if you can't give details of who and how much.
You can't complain about missing out on Polec and then suggest throwing money around is a solution without it being pointed out that money was not the answer.
Drugs Are Bad Mackay?
Moderator
- May 24, 2006
- 77,217
- 151,342
- AFL Club
- Adelaide
- Other Teams
- Redbacks, Sturt, Liverpool, Arizona
- Moderator
- #20,237
Somewhere between a half and a third of AFL players are coming out of contract every season. We had 12 months to plan and a wallet full of cash.
No viable alternatives?
If we couldn't stumble across someone to help our cause then perhaps we've got the wrong people looking?
Now - I actually think Noble is pretty good at what he does. So 'wrong people looking' is not the problem IMO. I think it is what the club armed these people with. I think the club has skimped on the one area that matters - on field talent. And took the opportunity to underpay on salary cap in these lean financial times.
It's like the whole club is on hold until the Adelaide Oval Rivers of Gold start flowing.
I can't make sense of that sentence sorry
WaynesWorld19
Moderator
- Moderator
- #20,238
This is the key point
Free Agency it has been admitted is an auction to the highest bidder
Sydney bought Tippett whilst in contract .......Sydney bought Franklin
What Adelaide couldn't or wouldn't look at any player outside of Polec & Edwards ?? .......yes they got Betts , but 12 months planning and nothing to show in what was the single most critical trade period for us.
When you review all the trading outcomes we only did average by comparison
Freemantle ...Sylvia & Gumbleton + retention 1st + 2nd rnd picks
North Melb ......Del Santo & Nahas + retention 1st +2nd rnd pick
Carlton .........Dale Thomas & Docherty + retention 1st rnd pick
St Kilda ..........Delaney & Bruce for 5th round 3rd rnd pick
So we were hamstrung by lack of picks to trade ......i call BS
And therein lies the flaw in the argument. You are assuming that out of that 260 people coming out of contract a good number are open to moving clubs. If we throw 800k at Tippett and he still walks, what makes you think if we throw 800k at players coming out of contract, that the player automatically wants to move. Most would be happy to re-sign at their existing club. Not every player is a Tippett, Buddy or Gunston. I think the AFC has been burned by trying to throw money to keep Tippett, we are going to be careful that the player wants to be with us to win premierships not just be motivated by money.
In addition out of the 260 odd how many are delisted, never to play again.
So we ended up with Betts who was out of contract and a FA and Pods who was delisted. One from each of the above groups.
Now, let's say we do find a non FA player open to move either the club has to agree to trade (and if we have nothing they want ....) or we have to convince the player to play the PSD card. Not every player is going to want to do that, and the AFC wouldn't pressure a player to either.
The 260 are quickly whittled down. It isn't as simple as your post suggests.
Bacon8
Cancelled
Maybe I should debate with those that said things like "god we missed out on Edwards. We are s**t, we will just end up with Nahas"
Deaneus!
We Await Silent Tristero's Empire
When you review all the trading outcomes we only did average by comparison
Fremantle ...Sylvia & Gumbleton + retention 1st + 2nd rnd picks
North Melb ......Del Santo & Nahas + retention 1st +2nd rnd pick
Carlton .........Dale Thomas & Docherty + retention 1st rnd pick
St Kilda ..........Delaney & Bruce for 5th round 3rd rnd pick
So we were hamstrung by lack of picks to trade ......i call BS
Fremantle ...Sylvia = Betts, Gumbleton < J-Pod
North Melb ......Del Santo = Betts, Nahas < J-Pod
Carlton .........Dale Thomas < Betts, Docherty < J-Pod
St Kilda ..........Delaney < Betts, Bruce < J-Pod
All things considered we did quite well this trade period, certainly better than average. Besides the obvious Buddy to Sydney trade, we got arguably the next best Free Agent available, and an experienced key forward to fill the gap until our real key forward is back to prime. I would have thought the club went into this trade period looking for a
1. small forward
2. outside mid
3. KPF stopgap
and we've got two out of three. The real pressure is now on to find that outside mid this year via free agency, and I'd hope we started talking to them months ago in preparation. We will have the cash for a good FA raid, decent draft picks, and a tilt at the flag beginning next season, we should be an attractive destination.
are you more likely to get outside mids later in the draft? I mean outside Brisbane do teams generally go in that direction early?
Noble was very aggressive this season chasing trade targets and AFL employees have said as much. I understand the point of paying someone enough to entice them to move clubs. However most players if they are only interested in re signing with their current club will sign early in the season. This leaves only a very small amount of players who delay contracts until the end of the season. The crows hamstrung themselves sure by having too many players contracted at seasons end leaving us in a position that made it very hard. Your point about replacing Thompson, rutten etc now well true, hopefully we can get a decent mid at pick 23 and that's Thompson taken care of and at the end of next season we can look to entice a key position player in FA next year.
Noble was very aggressive this season chasing trade targets and AFL employees have said as much. I understand the point of paying someone enough to entice them to move clubs. However most players if they are only interested in re signing with their current club will sign early in the season. This leaves only a very small amount of players who delay contracts until the end of the season. The crows hamstrung themselves sure by having too many players contracted at seasons end leaving us in a position that made it very hard. Your point about replacing Thompson, rutten etc now well true, hopefully we can get a decent mid at pick 23 and that's Thompson taken care of and at the end of next season we can look to entice a key position player in FA next year.
Drugs Are Bad Mackay?
Moderator
- May 24, 2006
- 77,217
- 151,342
- AFL Club
- Adelaide
- Other Teams
- Redbacks, Sturt, Liverpool, Arizona
- Moderator
- #20,245
No, it isn't simple but that's the game. That's what AFL clubs have to do.
If we are incapable of being an AFL club, if it's too hard for us to achieve then the administration are out of their depth and must go.
Like we've been saying.
I can't be bothered dealing with the specifics of your post (you know Sydney outbid us for Tippett, right? Geez) but you're holding the Club to an exceptionally low standard.
Drugs Are Bad Mackay?
Moderator
- May 24, 2006
- 77,217
- 151,342
- AFL Club
- Adelaide
- Other Teams
- Redbacks, Sturt, Liverpool, Arizona
- Moderator
- #20,246
Noble has done fine with what he had. The point is that the club hasn't made moves to arm him with all our resources. We've cut corners.
As for there only being a handful of players because they 'all' re-sign, what rubbish. Firstly we only needed a couple. Secondly how common is it getting for high profile players to put off contract talks until the end of the season. I wonder why they do this?
Captain Furious
Club Legend
- Oct 19, 2013
- 1,221
- 1,664
- AFL Club
- Adelaide
Couple of points
1. How do we actually know that we didn't approach out of contract people - maybe we called Martin's manager, but maybe he had no desire for a drawn out PSD saga.
2. I think what we did achieve is being largely undersold. I suspect if we had known nothing of the Betts deal and then bang, it's just announced in FA week, there would have been more kudos ie Franklin.
As it was we all knew he was likely coming well on advance so the psyche was more about moving in and asking - who's next ? Betts was an enormous signing and was done with competition all around. I think it was like getting the Xmas present before Xmas day and then having nothing under the tree .
Similarly Pods signing was underrated - 3 clubs vying for his services.
Was it perfect - no. Was it a disaster - certainly not.
1. How do we actually know that we didn't approach out of contract people - maybe we called Martin's manager, but maybe he had no desire for a drawn out PSD saga.
2. I think what we did achieve is being largely undersold. I suspect if we had known nothing of the Betts deal and then bang, it's just announced in FA week, there would have been more kudos ie Franklin.
As it was we all knew he was likely coming well on advance so the psyche was more about moving in and asking - who's next ? Betts was an enormous signing and was done with competition all around. I think it was like getting the Xmas present before Xmas day and then having nothing under the tree .
Similarly Pods signing was underrated - 3 clubs vying for his services.
Was it perfect - no. Was it a disaster - certainly not.
Look, I'm sorry but "the message" that you delivered was just a long-winded version of what every glass half awesome poster has been delivering:
Ie we didn't waste the dollars this year, will help us down the track, front load contracts, free up dollars, just wait until next year... yada yada yada.
Forgive me but this has been engaged ad nauseam for about 500 pages.
I've also gone to great lengths to explain why we needed to use the Tippett dollars this year, and not to take the easy do nothing option of rolling it over into future seasons. Or the even easier option of saying that we're going to roll it over into future seasons, actually not do it, and then hope people forget about all the promises.
If the club has it in mind that 2015 or 2016 we are back in the hunt with picks to trade plus a field of mouth-watering FA targets and that we shouldn't be too hasty now, that is going to compound our current problems. By then... Thompson? Gone or fading significantly. Rutten? Gone or fading significantly. The competition doesn't stand still long enough for us to get our act together. Why assume that all our jets (Danger, Walker, Sloane etc) who are in their prime will put up with a club that is keeping its powder dry and running lean now, for an assault at some unspecified time in the future. Beyond their current contracts anyway.
We've had 2013 running below full throttle and we're now taking that mindset into 2014. How long is an average career? The clock is ticking. And while we're taking several years just to get back to equilibrium, other clubs will be improving: Starting to reap the reward for their 1st/2nd round picks, topping up by Brian Laking it up.
This is why this trade period was so crucial to our club. It was our one opportunity to 'fix' the Tippett situation.
Now - this is nothing new. Posters have been trying to explain this for months and months. But nothing is going in. Instead posters still respond with gash like So you want to pay Polec $500k
Yeah, look, you're talking about what other people have said, not what I've said. You're talking in black and white terms and making huge leaps of logic all over the place. 2015 bounty we will "no doubt" receive? Like wtf even is this crap? You are talking out of your arse, no basis for what you are saying, and it's all glass half empty crap as opposed to half full as a lot of others like to spin it. The point is, you're just as bad as each other, you're both falling into prediction syndrome - garbage based on preexisting views of the club - and every variable you are using, you don't know exists, or to what extent. These "unused dollars" - you cannot quantify. Tippett leaving the club - you don't know what he was being paid at that time, or what already committed contractual arrangements would do to the cap. You don't have access to the machinations of the list, our financial projections for players, how their contracts shift year to year. You don't know how we model our decisions, which is the most important thing, and the single most decisive variable in shaping a view on this area of the club.
Of course, someone, maybe you, will read this and think to reply with the usual "so we should just say nothing about any of these issues? what's the point of the forum etc" - which is an arbitrary demonisation of talking total s**t. Because it -is- s**t, whatever impact that has on the largefooty forum. It is a waste of time, but more than that, it is made up and crap. It is having an opinion based on close to nothing. Even more stupid, is that you're painting others as blind for not "waking up" and taking your glass half empty approach, based on...the same but opposite total lack of basis. So it shouldn't be taken seriously, by the one giving it, or the one reading it.
I already broke down your variables for you - they're not variables at all. So it's crap, it is tenuous, and we need something that...exists. At all.
- Status
