2014 Academy/Father-son Discussion

Dylan12

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Aside from any major catastrophe's i.e. opposition clubs nominating higher picks than we're willing to use; is it pretty much a given the Lions will claim Hammelman and Dawson with 2nd - 4th round draft picks?
 
seems to be the general perception. Assuming the rules aren't changed for this year I am hoping we might get to use our 2nd pick live in the draft as only Saints, GWS and Melb could currently force us to do it, but i think that will be more of a case of a surprise bonus if it does happen. I'm running off the assumption we will have 1 live pick this year, which is our first.
 
Aside from any major catastrophe's i.e. opposition clubs nominating higher picks than we're willing to use; is it pretty much a given the Lions will claim Hammelman and Dawson with 2nd - 4th round draft picks?
Only a bit more certain than we would pick up Tickner and Conway, I'd have thought. Nothing's a given.
 
Sep 9, 2012
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seems to be the general perception. Assuming the rules aren't changed for this year I am hoping we might get to use our 2nd pick live in the draft as only Saints, GWS and Melb could currently force us to do it, but i think that will be more of a case of a surprise bonus if it does happen. I'm running off the assumption we will have 1 live pick this year, which is our first.
This is our dream scenario. A combination of Hammelmann and Dawson for third and four round picks is a huge win. Unfortunately it sounds like Freo/Hawthorn have interests in Hammelmann with their first rounders. Fingers crossed
 

jjami15

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Hammers write up on Bound for Glory.

http://boundforglorynews.com/2014-draft-profile-matthew-hammelmann/

Maybe to just put things into perspective. Hammer sounds quite vanilla and in comparison Andrews sounds like the second coming almost. Quite a big discrepancy and as much I like reading about our Academy boys through other people's eyes going to take things with a grain of salt and wait until lodgement day to see where they fall.
 

Kevvo

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Oct 17, 2013
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Hammers write up on Bound for Glory.

http://boundforglorynews.com/2014-draft-profile-matthew-hammelmann/

Maybe to just put things into perspective. Hammer sounds quite vanilla and in comparison Andrews sounds like the second coming almost. Quite a big discrepancy and as much I like reading about our Academy boys through other people's eyes going to take things with a grain of salt and wait until lodgement day to see where they fall.

Of the BF phantom draft boards, Knightmare's seems to loom largest. I went back and had a look at his write-ups of the players we took this year. While their draft spots were a little out, his write-ups of their game styles and aptitudes were pretty good and have borne out in what I've seen of the kids this year. That being so, I probably give his analysis a little more weight than a lot of the other boards. In any case, over the course of this year Hammelmann has moved substantially up his power rankings and is now something like 13th. Since then, he has moved up on a few of the other boards too, including being top 10 in a couple.

As much as there was hype about Tickner and Conway last year, I don't think it was anything like that high that late in the year on the few boards I read. Maybe the Heeney halo-effect is causing draft watchers to overrate academy kids all of a sudden, but I'm really interested to see how it all plays out.
 
I find a few things interesting in the analysis of div 2 guys this year.

1. There seems to be a lot more positivity about their performances in the state carnival, despite the fact that div 2 sides didn't play any div 1 sides this year and the relative low strength of the NT and Tassie sides this year

2. NEAFL form is suddenly being crowed about. I recognise the standard this year has probably increased but the level of praise and terminology used has probably been a little over the top for mine.

one can't help wonder how the media focus on the academies has affected how players from them are being looked at and indeed the time spent watching them. I'm still not ruling out some very big deviations in academy picks come draft time to the consensus on BF. Its almost like there's been an over correction on div 2 talent this year. Think Quigley may struggle to find a place for his usual div 2 bolter as they seemed to have bolted already :D
 
"The Heeney Halo" was well-coined. The spotlight has definitely spent a bit more time up north than it usually does.

While I do agree the language to describe the NEAFL form has been a bit OTT, I suspect the exposure via the TAC games has also contributed.

It'll be interesting to see how the bids compare to the hype.
 

John_Proctor

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Apr 17, 2009
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As much as there was hype about Tickner and Conway last year, I don't think it was anything like that high that late in the year on the few boards I read. Maybe the Heeney halo-effect is causing draft watchers to overrate academy kids all of a sudden, but I'm really interested to see how it all plays out.

I only started following this board with any interest last year around trade/draft time (for obvious reasons). I don't remember any discussion/hype at all about Tickner and Conway anywhere aside from within the Lions Forum itself. At the time I thought maybe the 'phantom drafters' were just ill-informed and didn't know much about the queensland prospects but on bidding and draft day it became apparant that perhaps the Lions forumers were too familiar with the players and overrating them.

I agree this year it almost looks the reverse! I noted Knightmare's assessment which listed Hammelman as 13th talent in the draft (and I think Harris Andrews and Dawson at about 40-50).

My take as noted above is the performances of Queensland against TAC Cup teams has been a driver of recognition of Hammelman and Andrews at least.
 

John_Proctor

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Apr 17, 2009
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Hammers write up on Bound for Glory.

http://boundforglorynews.com/2014-draft-profile-matthew-hammelmann/

Maybe to just put things into perspective. Hammer sounds quite vanilla and in comparison Andrews sounds like the second coming almost. Quite a big discrepancy and as much I like reading about our Academy boys through other people's eyes going to take things with a grain of salt and wait until lodgement day to see where they fall.

I was wondering if that was because Hammer had been more hyped mid season and Andrews seems to be coming late. you talk more about the difficiencies of someone you've been watching for a while and more about the possibilities of someone whose just come onto hte radar.
 
I only started following this board with any interest last year around trade/draft time (for obvious reasons). I don't remember any discussion/hype at all about Tickner and Conway anywhere aside from within the Lions Forum itself. At the time I thought maybe the 'phantom drafters' were just ill-informed and didn't know much about the queensland prospects but on bidding and draft day it became apparant that perhaps the Lions forumers were too familiar with the players and overrating them.

I agree this year it almost looks the reverse! I noted Knightmare's assessment which listed Hammelman as 13th talent in the draft (and I think Harris Andrews and Dawson at about 40-50).

My take as noted above is the performances of Queensland against TAC Cup teams has been a driver of recognition of Hammelman and Andrews at least.

Conway and Tickner were in the 30s of KM's rankings. Not that distant from Hammelmann, and above the others.

Unfortunately most mock drafters update or only release their mocks after trade week, after Brisbane didn't nominate Conway or Tickner - a huge red flag, and they plummeted after that. They were frequently considered at worst our 3rd and 4th round picks even on the D&T board - here they were maybe 2nd and 3rd, tops. Have a look at the full board mock drafts - Conway and Tickner were taken in the 60s in the BF mock and 59 and 60 at the trial (pre-academy nominations).

Others had Conway at 48, in the 60s and 70s and at 60 and 78 (our selections).
 

John_Proctor

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^ much better researched then my post. I wasn't referring to mock drafts on the brisbane board I was referring to the general banter about the players in discussion threads (such as the equivalent of this one) on the board where many posters were practically saying tickner was ready to replace goose in the 22.

I'm not saying this was informed or even a majority but it was there.

They were probably both unlucky with the go home 5 and the number of top draft picks we ended up with. Instead of tickner competing with those available after pick 50 for a spot on our list he was competing with gardiner who was rated the best key defender in the draft. Same with convey competing with aish. Taylor, Robbo instead of whoever would have been available late in the draft.
 
^ much better researched then my post. I wasn't referring to mock drafts on the brisbane board I was referring to the general banter about the players in discussion threads (such as the equivalent of this one) on the board where many posters were practically saying tickner was ready to replace goose in the 22.

The year we drafted Leuenberger we had plenty of "2007 teams" with pick 4 already in them, pre-draft. I like to think we've come some distance from there... at least we use prospects' names now! ;)
 
Hard to say whether Tickner/Conway were overrated or whether they simply didn't develop as expected. I think the hype around them in their underaged year was largely justified. Tickner was an AIS guy too IIRC which indicates either a strong or at least promising underaged year.

It is worth noting that the two of them were very much put up in lights by the club so it wasn't just an online bandwagon or two. Perhaps the Lions forum was a bit slower to catch on that their chances of a senior list spot were decreasing as the senior list went on. Having said that, in Conway's case at least, he put up some very good performances at local level late in the year which kept people interested.

Gut feel is that the entire Qld football community was out of sync with recruiters and it took a while for the penny to drop that Conway and Tickner weren't seen as the prospects we'd been expecting.
 

acuguy

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I remember getting the inside word on Tickner as a 16 year old from someone in the know that Tickner was the next big thing. Sometimes you just get it wrong
 
It will be interesting to see if and where any academy players get picked. Start of the season it sounded like Dawson was going to be worth about a 2nd/3rd and the rest may be a rookie selections, now some are saying most of our picks will be used on academy players. Either way, if we get another 2 academy players on our list, the future starts to look a lot brighter.
 

SCPaige

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Hey guys, firstly congrats on beating us! :confused: :(

Anyway, thought you'd be interested to see where I've placed your academy and f/s picks in my third edition of my mock draft.

The mock itself goes for four rounds, and if there were a fifth I'd have Josh Clayton in there. Reality is, he may now be passed up on given the Lions are firmly interested in tucking away Andrews, Hammellman and Dawson first and foremost, and Clayton whose had a really good year and will featuring strongly for Sandringham in the TAC Finals has been interviewed several times now by three other specific clubs. Lions are in a bit of a rock in a hard place regarding him, they may not be able to match offers from other clubs when it comes to bidding.

I'm not overly 100% across Brisbane's list, but with a few retirements and obvious delistings, they should room. It may come down to who bids what for academy players and they may be able to push somebody back, and match an offer for Clayton.

http://boundforglorynews.com/paige-cardonas-phantom-draft-3-0/
 
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