2014 Draft - Overrated and Underrated

[12Chill]

Don't get me wrong, Petracca is a gun. He is top 3 along with McCartin and Brayshaw. Just most people have him above the other 2 where I have them all equal.

One of the reasons he is so good is because he is that much stronger than his current opponents, When he gets to AFL level he wont be pushing off guys that weigh 70 odd kilos but guys that have hard mature strong bodies, he just wont be able to do what he does now as easily at the next level.

Brayshaw is 187cm and 86kg. He is also physically bigger then most other players.

Ollie Wines and Luke Dunstan haven't had any problems at AFL level.

 

[Two Planks]

Underrated - any player geelong select

Overrated - any player melbourne select

 

[12Chill]

So is this thread proving that Petracca is overrated?

Nope. I think the "he's bigger then his opponents" argument is crap personally.

 

[Blackas87]

Brayshaw is 187cm and 86kg. He is also physically bigger then most other players.

Ollie Wines and Luke Dunstan haven't had any problems at AFL level.

I'm not saying Petracca is going to struggle at AFL level. I just don't think he'll dominate as much as most other people think.

 

[12Chill]

I'm not saying Petracca is going to struggle at AFL level. I just don't think he'll dominate as much as most other people think.

I think he can get close to/around to a Dustin Martin level.

Dustin Martin - 187cm/89kg
Ollie Wines - 187cm/94kg
Paddy Dangerfield - 188cm/91kg

All a similar size to Petracca and those are some of the best in the comp (Danger/Dusty). At 186cm/92kg you are still bigger then most AFL midfielders, and once again when he gets a few years into him of hitting the weights each week he's going to be stronger physically.

 

[Defacto]

I think you can with the key forwards yes, but they are different type of players so you have to judge them differently. Paul Roos stated that he only drafts midfielders with top picks because key position players at u18 level are hard to judge because they are playing on opponents a lot weaker than them. Petracca is also a lot stronger than his opponents which is why I think it's hard to judge him 100% correctly.

Brayshaw is a bit different, comparing his style to Petracca's they are pretty different, Petracca uses unbelievable strength to bust through players, Brayshaw doesn't bust through players like Petracca does. Of Course all players are going to get restricted playing levels above what they are doing now, It's just that busting don't argue style Petracca plays I think will be restricted a lot more than the way Brayshaw plays at AFL level.

No doubt Petracca is going to be a gun, having a ready made mature strong body will mean he transition very nicely in at AFL level, I just don't think he'll dominate as much as most people think, just my opinion.

This is silly. If this argument applies to anyone it's wright. At 200cm+ not many underage defenders can go with him, but when he goes to the comps and faces the best, he had his colors lowered time and time again. Especially against durdin who was more athletic and could go with him height wise.

McCartin would be in the same bucket as petracca, but like wright McCartin had a poor comp.

Brayshaw is no different to petracca, they are both fairly big. Brayshaw used his superior tank to get to more contests. Then used his inside ability to have an impact. He was a vacuum cleaner and high possession winner. But the difference between petracca and brayshaw is atleast petracca has another string to his bow and has proven he can play HFF. Brayshaw is midfield or bust.

McCartin v wright. Same thing wright has another string to his bow as a ruck, which reduces the bust factor. But McCartin will be seen higher as he's a genuine FF

Other thing id add is petracca didnt solely build his game around busting through packs or manhandling opponents. Go watch the under 18 games again. He just beats his opponent and finds the ball. Overhead very good, even against bigger opponents

I just think this argument could be applied to many of the top prospects and it's a bit silly to apply it to petracca without applying it to the other top 4

 

[Defacto]

I'm not saying Petracca is going to struggle at AFL level. I just don't think he'll dominate as much as most other people think.

That's how I feel about wright and McCartin

 

[Blackas87]

I think he can get close to/around to a Dustin Martin level.

Dustin Martin - 187cm/89kg
Ollie Wines - 187cm/94kg
Paddy Dangerfield - 188cm/91kg

All a similar size to Petracca and those are some of the best in the comp (Danger/Dusty). At 186cm/92kg you are still bigger then most AFL midfielders, and once again when he gets a few years into him of hitting the weights each week he's going to be stronger physically.

yeah he certainly could get to that level, and yes he is going to be one of the strongest mids in the AFL. Just at the moment he's playing against players that have next to no strength.

It's like I could play against u10's and I would dominate against them, I could look like the best player in the country, if i moved up to senior footy I would no way near get close to dominating. At the moment it's like Petracca is playing against u10's, the next level up is going to be a big step up for Petracca and he just wont be able to use his strength as effectively as he does now, that's all i'm saying, he's still going to be a gun.

 

[Blackas87]

This is silly. If this argument applies to anyone it's wright. At 200cm+ not many underage defenders can go with him, but when he goes to the comps and faces the best, he had his colors lowered time and time again. Especially against durdin who was more athletic and could go with him height wise.

McCartin would be in the same bucket as petracca, but like wright McCartin had a poor comp.

Brayshaw is no different to petracca, they are both fairly big. Brayshaw used his superior tank to get to more contests. Then used his inside ability to have an impact. He was a vacuum cleaner and high possession winner. But the difference between petracca and brayshaw is atleast petracca has another string to his bow and has proven he can play HFF. Brayshaw is midfield or bust.

McCartin v wright. Same thing wright has another string to his bow as a ruck, which reduces the bust factor. But McCartin will be seen higher as he's a genuine FF

Other thing id add is petracca didnt solely build his game around busting through packs or manhandling opponents. Go watch the under 18 games again. He just beats his opponent and finds the ball. Overhead very good, even against bigger opponents

I just think this argument could be applied to many of the top prospects and it's a bit silly to apply it to petracca without applying it to the other top 4

That's how I feel about wright and McCartin

Agree, McCartin being a lot stronger than his opponents will struggle to dominate games once he plays on bigger defenders.

Just the difference with Brayshaw is that he doesn't use his strength as much as Petracca.

Of course once Petracca and McCartin after years of getting used to bigger opponents are going to be able to handle them much better but they won't ever again be playing on players half their size.

It's just my opinion

 

[Defacto]

Agree, McCartin being a lot stronger than his opponents will struggle to dominate games once he plays on bigger defenders.

Just the difference with Brayshaw is that he doesn't use his strength as much as Petracca.

Of course once Petracca and McCartin after years of getting used to bigger opponents are going to be able to handle them much better but they won't ever again be playing on players half their size.

It's just my opinion

Im starting to think you haven't seen much of petracca, maybe some highlights, or you're a dees supporter

His strength wasn't the telling sign of petracca, much of it was burst more than power/breaking tackles. I can't emphasise that point enough, and if you had watched him you'd understand.

It's not like he was powering through the lines or clearances fending people off or shaking them off. He just had a habit of being able to use that burst speed in close to find the space and flat foot opponents.

Like others have said, size wise there wasn't much difference between brayshaw and petracca

 

[Defacto]

yeah he certainly could get to that level, and yes he is going to be one of the strongest mids in the AFL. Just at the moment he's playing against players that have next to no strength.

It's like I could play against u10's and I would dominate against them, I could look like the best player in the country, if i moved up to senior footy I would no way near get close to dominating. At the moment it's like Petracca is playing against u10's, the next level up is going to be a big step up for Petracca and he just wont be able to use his strength as effectively as he does now, that's all i'm saying, he's still going to be a gun.

Yeah, players like waterman, hardsity, Neal-Bullen, Blakely have no strength. I could go on about some of the SA man child's

 

[Ess_don]

I have next to no clue about any draft prospects but read this whole thread hoping to potentially spot any of these kids pumping themselves up or make a defend an "Overrated" call.. so far has been disappoint.

 

[God Save Max King]

Agree, McCartin being a lot stronger than his opponents will struggle to dominate games once he plays on bigger defenders.

Just the difference with Brayshaw is that he doesn't use his strength as much as Petracca.

Of course once Petracca and McCartin after years of getting used to bigger opponents are going to be able to handle them much better but they won't ever again be playing on players half their size.

It's just my opinion

Brayshaw, when playing an inside role, does use his strength, like Petracca ('uses his strength, like Petracca', not 'uses his strength like Petracca'). The biggest advantage he has is that he can throw his body at the footy like a madman and can ride the bumps and the tackles because at 90kgs he is heavier than most other midfielders at the U18 level. Of course Gus is faster and is as agile than Petracca (and a better kick), but if you question CP's ability to dominate at the highest level, you must do the same for Brayshaw.

Defacto, respectfully disagree that Wright has less bust potential than McCartin, Paddy has consistently shown that he can produce as a forward, Wright has not.

 

[LemmingMaster]

For those saying Petracca is overrated, I would be interested for you to state where he should go in the draft?
He is projected to be a top 3 pick, I would like to see where you rate him.

 

[LemmingMaster]

Defacto, respectfully disagree that Wright has less bust potential than McCartin, Paddy has consistently shown that he can produce as a forward, Wright has not.

Wright does have a little Ottens about him with his ability to mark and kick long goals. Has an amazing kicking action and if we had two rucks he would be a certain top 3 pick in my eyes. I just worry about the trend for clubs to poach rucks and let another club develop them on their list.

I could imagine the whole Grundy issue appearing again, second on most teams boards and slipping down the list.

Petracca
Brayshaw
Lever/McCartin
Lever/McCartin
Leverde
Pickett
Langford
Weller....

Could see Wright managing to slip down the order being second on teams hit list.

 

[Blackas87]

Im starting to think haven't you seen much of petracca, maybe some highlights, or you're a dees supporter

His strength wasn't the telling sign of petracca, much of it was burst more than power/breaking tackles. I can't emphasise that point enough, and if you had watched him you'd understand.

It's not like he was powering through the lines or clearances fending people off or shaking them off. He just had a habit of being able to use that burst speed in close to find the space and flat foot opponents.

Like others have said, size wise there wasn't much difference between brayshaw and petracca

Well you got it I am a dees supporter, and there is still a chance Petracca comes to us anyway. It's just my opinion mate, don't need worry about what I think, everyone can have differnet opinions.

I think Petracca, Brayshaw and McCartin are top 3 in this draft, they are all strong bodied and ready to go in 2015, Wright IMO has the biggest ceiling, if he develops right I think he'll be the best, problem is that he still has to develop so the other 3 are more guaranteed to make it as players and I prefer them. They are all good players I just personally don't have one ahead of the other, that's just me and I'm sure everybody else different opinions.

 

[Blackas87]

For those saying Petracca is overrated, I would be interested for you to state where he should go in the draft?
He is projected to be a top 3 pick, I would like to see where you rate him.

I've stated slightly overrated, most people think he's far ahead of the next 2, I still rate him top 3

 

[ManOfClay]

For those saying Petracca is overrated, I would be interested for you to state where he should go in the draft?
He is projected to be a top 3 pick

Just that. He's definitely top three, but the way some are raving about him it seems nobody else should be in the conversation for pick 1

 

[Defacto]

Brayshaw, when playing an inside role, does use his strength, like Petracca ('uses his strength, like Petracca', not 'uses his strength like Petracca'). The biggest advantage he has is that he can throw his body at the footy like a madman and can ride the bumps and the tackles because at 90kgs he is heavier than most other midfielders at the U18 level. Of course Gus is faster and is as agile than Petracca (and a better kick), but if you question CP's ability to dominate at the highest level, you must do the same for Brayshaw.

Defacto, respectfully disagree that Wright has less bust potential than McCartin, Paddy has consistently shown that he can produce as a forward, Wright has not.

We'll have to agree to disagree ;-)

Other thing on petracca is he has that body made for an AFL workload. Broad shoulders, long arms. Others you'd question if they have a body for AFL

 

[SugarCoat]

If Petracca was a clear Number 1, Pelchan wouldn't have offered to trade Pick 1 like he did.

 

[Defacto]

Just that. He's definitely top three, but the way some are raving about him it seems nobody else should be in the conversation for pick 1

That certainly hasn't been the case with saints supporters. Over the year we have changed thoughts on who is pick 1, probably weekly/monthly. I just think we've finally come to the consensus that petracca is in front of McCartin, wright, brayshaw and Pickett/laverde/durdin.

But like the club has said recently there are still 4 in contention

 

[Defacto]

If Petracca was a clear Number 1, Pelchan wouldn't have offered to trade Pick 1 like he did.

Yes and no. He may just have thought something like pick 4,6,7 would be better value than pick 1 on its own

Pick 1 and 21 for 4 and 6 wasn't enough for what it's worth

 

[God Save Max King]

Wright does have a little Ottens about him with his ability to mark and kick long goals. Has an amazing kicking action and if we had two rucks he would be a certain top 3 pick in my eyes. I just worry about the trend for clubs to poach rucks and let another club develop them on their list.

I could imagine the whole Grundy issue appearing again, second on most teams boards and slipping down the list.

Petracca
Brayshaw
Lever/McCartin
Lever/McCartin
Leverde
Pickett
Langford
Weller....

Could see Wright managing to slip down the order being second on teams hit list.

I think GWS are a huge chance to select Laverde at #4, he's got what they want and need, a medium forward that can burst through midfield every now and then. Collingwood might then go for Langford/De Goey at 5, then GWS could have their choice of two of Lever, Pickett or Wright at 6 and 7. A low risk, high reward position. De Goey is underrated, he and Moore would be an excellent draft for the Pies.

 

[PieMan!]

I think GWS are a huge chance to select Laverde at #4, he's got what they want and need, a medium forward that can burst through midfield every now and then. Collingwood might then go for Langford/De Goey at 5, then GWS could have their choice of two of Lever, Pickett or Wright at 6 and 7. A low risk, high reward position. De Goey is underrated, he and Moore would be an excellent draft for the Pies.

If GWS do take Laverde i would want to take Wright with pick 5

 

[12Chill]

If Petracca was a clear Number 1, Pelchan wouldn't have offered to trade Pick 1 like he did.

Pelchen offered pick 1 to see what we could get for it. If we could get 4, 6 and 7 for 1 and 21 or something then run with it, lol. Petracca is the clear number 1, no doubt about it. But if you can get 3 potential A graders instead of 1 then you need to consider it for example.