List Mgmt. 2014 Draft Prospects

[TheLastEmperor]

And raises a bunch of deficiencies in respect of Bevan (who still goes) but has no place for McKenzie (because he's a 'one trick pony' apparently).

Good read, but I've got my issues with it. I'd probably take the Rainbow over Nelson in his phantom... We need the elite kicking skills.

If his quick bio is anything to go by his opinion carries some weight. More than a lot of the phantom guys out there.

Jackson Nelson looks like being a quality player and will go somewhere around 15-25 IMO. We would be very lucky to get him at 38 - which as I raised is very unlikely.

 

[Barrels]

If his quick bio is anything to go by his opinion carries some weight. More than a lot of the phantom guys out there.

Jackson Nelson looks like being a quality player and will go somewhere around 15-25 IMO. We would be very lucky to get him at 38 - which as I raised is very unlikely.

I'm not knocking his bonafides, I just have a different opinion.

I think - like with height - we get seduced and conned these by the thought of 'dual role' KPP players; they're a luxury IMO.

As I commented on his thread, Tom Hawkins and Travis Cloke aren't going to be seen rucking, nor was Dustin Fletcher in his pomp. A couple of clubs, ours amongst them, need a big strong-marking forward presence desperately; McKenzie will get drafted by someone.

 

[Barrels]

He also suggests that McCartin would be a Nick Riewoldt replacement, and unless he's talking KPFs generally, it couldn't be less apt IMO.

McCartin is an old-school FF, Roo is a CHF freak athlete. Poles apart.

 

[TheLastEmperor]

I'm not knocking his bonafides, I just have a different opinion.

I think - like with height - we get seduced and conned these by the thought of 'dual role' KPP players; they're a luxury IMO.

As I commented on his thread, Tom Hawkins and Travis Cloke aren't going to be seen rucking, nor was Dustin Fletcher in his pomp. A couple of clubs, ours amongst them, need a big strong-marking forward presence desperately; McKenzie will get drafted by someone.

The main issue with McKenzie is consistency. He bagged 10 goals when the best of the best were playing national champs and hasn't backed up that performance. I want to see him have a few solid games in the TAC before being certain he's getting drafted.

 

[Barrels]

The main issue with McKenzie is consistency. He bagged 10 goals when the best of the best were playing national champs and hasn't backed up that performance. I want to see him have a few solid games in the TAC before being certain he's getting drafted.

If consistency was really that much of an issue we wouldn't see so many kids drafted due to 'upside'...

The kids only come back to top level footy this year from basketball, so it doesn't surprise me that consistency is an issue. I'm not saying he's going to tear the AFL apart from the get go, but someone will take the punt. I'd put the house on it.

 

[TheLastEmperor]

If consistency was really that much of an issue we wouldn't see so many kids drafted due to 'upside'...

The kids only come back to top level footy this year from basketball, so it doesn't surprise me that consistency is an issue. I'm not saying he's going to tear the AFL apart from the get go, but someone will take the punt. I'd put the house on it.

Consistency probably a poor choice of word. I would like to see him do more than impact only the one game.

 

[From 45]

I'm not knocking his bonafides, I just have a different opinion.

I think - like with height - we get seduced and conned these by the thought of 'dual role' KPP players; they're a luxury IMO.

As I commented on his thread, Tom Hawkins and Travis Cloke aren't going to be seen rucking, nor was Dustin Fletcher in his pomp. A couple of clubs, ours amongst them, need a big strong-marking forward presence desperately; McKenzie will get drafted by someone.

What credentials do you have barrels ? Do you actually watch these kids live on a consistent basis? Serious question

 

[L_W_P]

If we are looking for a like-for-like replacement for Roo then I would actually take Wright before McCartin. Has a massive tank and can play much higher up the ground. Would probobaly be a better pairing with Rhys while Lee/Bruce/White plays as the 3rd tall.

Also gives us the ability to throw either of them in the ruck if they are down on form or being well defended. If McCartin is being stopped we can't really do anything about it. He's an anchor inside 50 and that's it.

Also anyone who has issues with picking up the 193cm Frawley because he will be 'undersized' in 4 years must also have issues with the 194cm McCartin who will be ragdolled by the monster defenders that stand 197cm and over. I know there are other reasons people don't want Chip but if you're going to claim size as a reason then McCartin is out the window for you too. Can't have it both ways.

Still on #teampetracca though

 

[Periphery]

McCartin not named for the Geelong Falcons this weekend.

Petracca is playing (listed at FF ), Wright listed at CHF.

 

[L_W_P]

McCartin not named for the Geelong Falcons this weekend.

Petracca is playing (listed at FF ), Wright listed at CHF.

He wants to be a Saint. Has told the Coach to play him deep so he can remind everyone of his forward play and secure himself as pick #1. Well done son, well done!

 

[Periphery]

Weideman, Schache and McKenzie are also playing this weekend.

 

[Barrels]

What credentials do you have barrels ? Do you actually watch these kids live on a consistent basis? Serious question

Nope, only been to a couple of games, but I have a lot more free time than the average and I read everything, and watch any footage, I can get my hands on.

Because I have absolutely no life.

Why?

 

[From 45]

Nope, only been to a couple of games, but I have a lot more free time than the average and I read everything, and watch any footage, I can get my hands on.

Because I have absolutely no life.

Why?

At least you're honest I'll give you that..

So you have a difference of opinion to someone who constantly watches these kids , (not just over 12 months)based on what you read and footage? I wish recruiting was that easy.

Yes you can have an opinion because opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one but surely you need a base of substance to form an opinion, especially whether you think a kid can make it or not.

Footage and reading articles is not going to help you judge player X is going to make it.

Fair statement?

 

[Barrels]

Fair statement?

Not really.

I said he'd be picked up IMO, I didn't say he'd 'make it'. I also didn't say his opinion was rubbish, just that mine was different.

The fact is, clubs will take a punt on a big lump of a kid who's played to an elite junior level in more than one sport and who's kicked a huge bag at elite level, regardless of whether the best defenders were available or not; and let's face it, not every kid who plays Champs is drafted, nor does every kid who misses out on that selection miss out on being drafted, so selection is not in and of itself a default judgement on quality.

If recruiters were the be-all-and-end-all of football knowledge and judgement, then John Peake wouldn't have had his track record with us. They get it wrong, and so do other observers, me included.

I don't see any issue with establishing a viewpoint based on a empirical data and comment from firsthand sources, including Northern's coach, Andrew Shakespeare, who listed McKenzie as 'one to watch' in the Rnd 1 TAC Cup Record (http://www.sportingpulse.com/get_file.cgi?id=2960107), nor do I consider myself as knowing next to nothing about football generally.

In the end, it doesn't even matter as the recruiting staff at the club are hardly hanging out to see what ol' Uncle Barrels thinks, much less be guided by it, and unless the Phantom poster is you under another account, I really don't see what your stake is in this.

 

[joop]

Also to note that whilst this years performance are super important, like Petraccas massive improvement, the recruiters have been watching these guys since u/16.
Don't have any stats with me, but from all reports mccartin has been a clear standout over his whole junior career.

 

[Barrels]

Also to note that whilst this years performance are super important, like Petraccas massive improvement, the recruiters have been watching these guys since u/16.
Don't have any stats with me, but from all reports mccartin has been a clear standout over his whole junior career.

I reckon McCartin will do the business with aplomb at AFL level, but then, that's just my arseh... opinion...

 

[From 45]

Not really.

I said he'd be picked up IMO, I didn't say he'd 'make it'. I also didn't say his opinion was rubbish, just that mine was different.

The fact is, clubs will take a punt on a big lump of a kid who's played to an elite junior level in more than one sport and who's kicked a huge bag at elite level, regardless of whether the best defenders were available or not; and let's face it, not every kid who plays Champs is drafted, nor does every kid who misses out on that selection miss out on being drafted.

If recruiters were the be-all-and-end-all of football knowledge and judgement, then John Peake wouldn't have had his track record with us. They get it wrong, and so do other observers, me included.

I don't see any issue with establishing a viewpoint based on a empirical data and comment from firsthand sources, including Northern's coach, Andrew Shakespeare, who listed McKenzie as 'one to watch' in the Rnd 1 TAC Cup Record (http://www.sportingpulse.com/get_file.cgi?id=2960107), not do I consider myself as knowing next to nothing about football generally.

In the end, it doesn't even matter as the recruiting staff at the club are hardly hanging out to see what ol' Uncle Barrels thinks, much less be guided by it, and unless the Phantom poster is you under another account, I really don't see what your stake is in this.

I just wanted to know how you formed your opinions on the kids.. I agree that recruiters get it wrong - just look at who richmond selected as their rookie in today's paper. I shook my head in disbelief..

However you must agree that you need to watch the kids live at the games to get a feel as to whether or not they're any good.. Reading articles and watching YouTube footage and forming an opinion purely based on these mediums is just plain ridiculous.
Regarding Mckenzie ; did you just look up the TAC results and saw he had kicked 10 goals and then you followed it up by reading articles about him and then you saw his height and weight and thought , Wow this kid will make it based on that one game ? Are you able to tell me what his strengths and weaknesses are without reading any articles on him ? And as you say recruiters get it wrong so what is written about him might be wrong?

Only way to truly know is if you see it first hand yourself.
I'm just using Mckenzie as an example.

 

[Barrels]

I just wanted to know how you formed your opinions on the kids.. I agree that recruiters get it wrong - just look at who richmond selected as their rookie in today's paper. I shook my head in disbelief..

However you must agree that you need to watch the kids live at the games to get a feel as to whether or not they're any good.. Reading articles and watching YouTube footage and forming an opinion purely based on these mediums is just plain ridiculous.
Regarding Mckenzie ; did you just look up the TAC results and saw he had kicked 10 goals and then you followed it up by reading articles about him and then you saw his height and weight and thought , Wow this kid will make it based on that one game ? Are you able to tell me what his strengths and weaknesses are without reading any articles on him ? And as you say recruiters get it wrong so what is written about him might be wrong?

Only way to truly know is if you see it first hand yourself.
I'm just using Mckenzie as an example.

Nope, been keeping an eye on McKenzie all year actually, and honestly I'm not going to get into a tiff with you...

I think the kid has the tools to make it on the basis of whatever I've based my opinion on. I'm entitled to make that call AFAIK.

 

[From 45]

Nope, been keeping an eye on McKenzie all year actually, and honestly I'm not going to get into a tiff with you...

I think the kid has the tools to make it on the basis of whatever I've based my opinion on. I'm entitled to make that call AFAIK.

Who says we need to get into a tiff? I merely making the point that reading articles etc is not the way to form a substantial opinion on players/kids.... Since you have plenty of time on your hands , go and watch the kids play . Your opinions would be more respected

 

[Barrels]

Who says we need to get into a tiff? I merely making the point that reading articles etc is not the way to form a substantial opinion on players/kids.... Since you have plenty of time on your hands , go and watch the kids play . Your opinions would be more respected

By who? I'm pretty certain my opinions are neither respected not disrespected.

I really don't see why this matters to you.

 

[From 45]

By who? I'm pretty certain my opinions are neither respected not disrespected.

I really don't see why this matters to you.

Mate it doesn't really matter , just curious as to how you inform your opinion on this subject matter.

 

[Mowman]

Might come back later when the p1ssing comp finished

 

[TheLastEmperor]

Mate it doesn't really matter , just curious as to how you inform your opinion on this subject matter.

Your curiosity was answered a number of posts ago. Can we move on?

 

[12Chill]

We've been talking about trading Hickey/Longer in soon because they "can't play in the same team", would probably attract a nice pick, and we have Stanley as backup to whoever stays with Holmes developing... I'd say if we could draft Peter Wright also just for insurance, play him predominately forward though but it seems he has that extra string to his bow. Still want Petracca though, but eh, either way I'm not going to be too fussed whether we get McCarin, Wright or Petracca.

 

[Mindtraveller]

We've been talking about trading Hickey/Longer in soon because they "can't play in the same team", would probably attract a nice pick, and we have Stanley as backup to whoever stays with Holmes developing... I'd say if we could draft Peter Wright also just for insurance, play him predominately forward though but it seems he has that extra string to his bow. Still want Petracca though, but eh, either way I'm not going to be too fussed whether we get McCarin, Wright or Petracca.

If we draft McCartin, I don't see Hickey/Longer playing in the same team. I could see Longer playing that FF role with CHF and Stanley roaming around.