List Mgmt. 2014 Draft Discussion Part II

[richoatthedisco]

He won't go top 10. But he's a top 10 on talent.

I don't think he's top 10 on talent. Wright, McCartin, Petracca, Durdin, Brayshaw, Laverde, Lever, Pickett, Goddard, Ahern, Garlett, Duggan, Ellis, De Goey, Weller, Smith, Anderson, Rose, just off the top of my head, have more talent IMO.

Little jack Lonie played one blinder at the Champs, Daniel played one and another very good game. No one is talking Lonie up.

Even in the third round, given the choice of Daniel or a chubby contested ball freak with a laser left foot like Hardisty, I'm taking the latter.

 

[SumTingWong]

Just out of interest i was talking to the coach of Josh Weightman.
He is apparently a absolute gun but is short.
He gets picked in all of the rep team squads but gets cut because of his size.
Sounds like he would be worth a rookie spot.

How old is he?

 

[tigs2010]

I don't think he's top 10 on talent. Wright, McCartin, Petracca, Durdin, Brayshaw, Laverde, Lever, Pickett, Goddard, Ahern, Garlett, Duggan, Ellis, De Goey, Weller, Smith, Anderson, Rose, just off the top of my head, have more talent IMO.

Little jack Lonie played one blinder at the Champs, Daniel played one and another very good game. No one is talking Lonie up.

Even in the third round, given the choice of Daniel or a chubby contested ball freak with a laser left foot like Hardisty, I'm taking the latter.

Daniel on actual footballing ability is a mile ahead of most of those blokes you've listed. If he wasn't a dwarf he'd comfortably go top 10 and probably top 5.

Lonie is another good one and if Daniel was gone I'd snap him up pretty quickly.

 

[captain cotch 9]

How old is he?

17

 

[captain cotch 9]

What is the depth of this years draft supposed to be like?

 

[Ralll]

Another top end mid please with our first pick.

 

[Damo80]

By any definition Hampson wasn't worth a second rounder in the rookie draft, let alone the national draft.

Don't disagree, but that wasn't my point. I think The Gun was trying to emphasise his point (i.e. Hampson = dud) by overstating how "good" the pick was that was used on him.

What was it, a pick in the early 30's, in a draft pretty much universally seen as being pretty shallow, and our club only rated a fairly small number of the draft crop.

Now whether Hampson was "worth" that pick, or whether our club should have more balls than to go with a known quantity (and not a good one, at that) over risking a kid who may well be a bust, but had the off chance of being a diamond in the rough, is another debate.

Fact is, as far as 2nd rounders go, it was a pretty crappy one. If you're going to burn a second round draft pick, it may as well be one pushed out into the 30's, in a crap draft pool. I'd imagine if we were to fast forward 12 months to the 2014 trade/draft period, where we finish much lower on the ladder, less compensation picks involved to push the pick out further and further, and in a draft with a much deeper pool of talent, the value of our second round pick will be much higher. I would suggest that this year's second round draft pick will probably be a "good second rounder", and I'd imagine the club will treat it accordingly. No way this year's 2nd draft pick would've been used for Hampson if it had've been this off season we were going shopping.

 

[Damo80]

On your 1st point about the good 2nd rounder, Any early 2nd rounder is a good and valued selection - Jay Kennedy Harris was the player that most on this site wanted and looks like he will become a good player for melbourne for 10 years - But Hampson looks like spudding it as he did at his original club or 8 years

Now the Heppell v Conca debate
I cant see how any richmond supporter will still believe that it was a good choice & In regards to their injuries from my recollection Conca was injured when drafted and has missed alot more games than heppell and is miles off heppels out put and quality

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...d1=3452&tid2=6&pid2=3454&type=A&fid1=S&fid2=S

Technically, it wasn't an early 2nd rounder... and it was pushed out by compo picks. In a crap draft year. Anyway, covered that in my previous post.

Re: Conca v Heppell, I'd swap them without hesitation... in hindsight. But I was suggesting a plausible reason why we overlooked Heppell in his draft year, not trying to convince myself that Conca is better just because he plays for us. I'd imagine a handful of clubs would be regretting not pulling the trigger on Heppell in hindsight. Might've been those injury concerns/rumours. Or maybe we (and other clubs) just got it wrong.

 

[Calcium Man]

Technically, it wasn't an early 2nd rounder... and it was pushed out by compo picks. In a crap draft year. Anyway, covered that in my previous post.

Re: Conca v Heppell, I'd swap them without hesitation... in hindsight. But I was suggesting a plausible reason why we overlooked Heppell in his draft year, not trying to convince myself that Conca is better just because he plays for us. I'd imagine a handful of clubs would be regretting not pulling the trigger on Heppell in hindsight. Might've been those injury concerns/rumours. Or maybe we (and other clubs) just got it wrong.

No doubting Heppell is better right now and probably going forward. But Conca has still been decent and yet to have a proper pre season. Also be interesting to see how well Heppell goes after two years on the sideline And that will happen.

 

[RichoLedio]

He might actually be "The Next Boomer Harvey" that comes close to his talents.

Well they both have two first names

 

[richoatthedisco]

Daniel on actual footballing ability is a mile ahead of most of those blokes you've listed. If he wasn't a dwarf he'd comfortably go top 10 and probably top 5.

No he's not and no he wouldn't.

 

[Tigerbob]

No he's not and no he wouldn't.

Yes he would and yes he would be.

 

[richoatthedisco]

Yes he would and yes he would be.

Nope.

 

[Stylo]

Nope.

Nope to your nope. Point out some flaws in his game for us? Other than his height.

 

[theflea]

We didn't say anything about only taking three picks but we did say a few weeks ago we won't be looking to make too many changes and we still think the list is in pretty good shape. At the very least that doesn't sound to me like we'll be going particularly deep into the draft, hopefully I'm wrong but that's what I took from it. Now given that we're likely to use picks to upgrade Miles and probably Thomas as well worse luck how many live picks do you reckon that would leave us?

I don't agree that's what we will do automatically, as it depends on players getting traded/retired/sacked etc of which some we have no choice on. I agree with the Miles upgrade but not Thomas. So there is at least 2 picks with 1 upgrade. Then what about those players that haven't come on? Helbig, Dea, Griffiths, Elton, King, Newman etc. All I would say is don't take as gospel things said half way through a year when all the chips aren't on the table. Taking 3/4 picks plus 1 upgrade is fine by me, plus what about trades from other clubs?

 

[richoatthedisco]

Nope to your nope. Point out some flaws in his game for us? Other than his height.

What's his left foot like? How's his marking? Can he kick 50 metres without a howling gale at his back? Can he handball more than five metres? Does he have an inside game? He's quick, but he's not the super quick he'd need to be to put him in the top 10. These are all legitimate questions raised after watching both his Champs games.

And anyway, you can't separate his height from his talent. If he was taller, he wouldn't be able to pick up the ball without breaking stride the way he does. It's like saying Jane King would be Wayne Carey if he were born with Ben Griffiths' physical talents - except he would then have never developed his own mental strength.

Now, how about you guys go through the players I listed and tell me why Daniel has more talent then them.

 

[Tomnat Tigers]

Just went through Lever's stats from last season (16 games) with the exception of one game as the stats weren't provided.

Average Disposals:
- 18.86
Average Effective kicks:
- 7.2
Average Ineffective kicks:
- 4.1
Average effective handballs:
- 5.7
Average Ineffective handballs:
- 0.86
Average Contested Marks:
- 2.26
Average Uncontested Marks:
- 5.06
Average Tackles:
- 2.3
Average Handball receives:
- 3.2

Pretty big numbers for a 17 year old KPP/Rebounding defender.

 

[tigs2010]

Now, how about you guys go through the players I listed and tell me why Daniel has more talent then them.

Elite kick
Elite endurance
Very good speed
Probably best decision maker in the draft
Best vision of anyone in the draft in traffic.

The only real knock on him is his height. Which admittedly is a big one when it comes to AFL and is why he won't go high in the draft. A 6ft player with those attributes would go top 5-10 every year.

 

[NZ_Tiger]

Just went through Lever's stats from last season (16 games) with the exception of one game as the stats weren't provided.

Average Disposals:
- 18.86
Average Effective kicks:
- 7.2
Average Ineffective kicks:
- 4.1
Average effective handballs:
- 5.7
Average Ineffective handballs:
- 0.86
Average Contested Marks:
- 2.26
Average Uncontested Marks:
- 5.06
Average Tackles:
- 2.3
Average Handball receives:
- 3.2

Pretty big numbers for a 17 year old KPP/Rebounding defender.

We have are in love with drafting injured players.

 

[richoatthedisco]

Elite kick
Elite endurance
Very good speed
Probably best decision maker in the draft
Best vision of anyone in the draft in traffic.

The only real knock on him is his height. Which admittedly is a big one when it comes to AFL and is why he won't go high in the draft. A 6ft player with those attributes would go top 5-10 every year.

I disagree he is an elite kick. He's a good kick. He played outside in the Champs so the only traffic he was in was on the highway. Best decision maker is a big call.

The kid can play, no doubt. But I bet he doesn't get taken in the first two rounds.

Just went through Lever's stats from last season (16 games) with the exception of one game as the stats weren't provided.

Average Disposals:
- 18.86
Average Effective kicks:
- 7.2
Average Ineffective kicks:
- 4.1
Average effective handballs:
- 5.7
Average Ineffective handballs:
- 0.86
Average Contested Marks:
- 2.26
Average Uncontested Marks:
- 5.06
Average Tackles:
- 2.3
Average Handball receives:
- 3.2

Pretty big numbers for a 17 year old KPP/Rebounding defender.

He's a gun.

 

[SumTingWong]

I disagree he is an elite kick. He's a good kick. He played outside in the Champs so the only traffic he was in was on the highway. Best decision maker is a big call.

The kid can play, no doubt. But I bet he doesn't get taken in the first two rounds.


He's a gun.

I like Lever with our first pick. Who do you think we should take?

 

[SplintWhisky]

I don't think he's top 10 on talent. Wright, McCartin, Petracca, Durdin, Brayshaw, Laverde, Lever, Pickett, Goddard, Ahern, Garlett, Duggan, Ellis, De Goey, Weller, Smith, Anderson, Rose, just off the top of my head, have more talent IMO.

Little jack Lonie played one blinder at the Champs, Daniel played one and another very good game. No one is talking Lonie up.

Even in the third round, given the choice of Daniel or a chubby contested ball freak with a laser left foot like Hardisty, I'm taking the latter.

My boss is Lonie's Uncle and I have worked with the kid a few times. He is really small and would be a project player (body wise) for a few years. He really needs to add some muscle during his first preseason. If we picked him up we would have to let his body mature a bit for a year or 2 before we put him into the seniors

Great kid though. A little shy and reserved but is humble with a touch of confidence in his skill and can easily define what his own weaknesses are. Last I spoke to him his goal pre-draft this year was to be able to accurately kick 30m on both feet.

 

[richoatthedisco]

I like Lever with our first pick. Who do you think we should take?

Lever would be my pick if he has a medical clearance and they think he can be a midfielder. I think he can, but I haven't seen a huge amount of him. What I have seen, I love.

If not him, Pickett or Laverde. Or Ahern.

I'll watch with interest how these kids go for the rest of the year.

 

[NZ_Tiger]

Lever is very iffy, he was a top rated pick last year but could have stagnated like Goddard did this year but we will never know as he won't play all season.

I'm keen but I remember from my time watching nba docos, first round draft best available and don't draft injured players.

 

[Stylo]

Yeah not sold on Lever. Kicking is iffy. Laverde is our guy IMO.