List Mgmt. 2014 Free Agency, draft and trades news and discussion **Not the trade hypotheticals thread"

[Procrastinator35]

When Grimley put his mind to it he played some pretty good football, however as everyone would probably agree he has a major, major attitude problem. He isn't the first and won't be the last. I for one am very dissapointed to see a player waste his talents.

The only 'elite' talent Grimley 'exhibited', was:....A complete absence of any footy I.Q whatsoever!

 

[Dixie Flatline]

Lowden was the best pure tap ruckman we had, Grim won the VFL coleman medal. Halla won the JJ Liston twelve months ago, and Cheney was incredible at that level.

Thinking we're better in depth is insane talk.

Not picking on you ObieWan, because I've seen other people cite Grimley's Frosty Miller medal as evidence that he should be persevered with, but it overlooks some facts.

Grimley won the Frosty Miller medal with the lowest tally in decades. He kicked 13 goals in the last two rounds of the home & away season against Bendigo Gold (which was a fortnight away from folding and therefore had nothing to play for collectively) and against the Northern Blues (who were so light on for defenders that they basically played a six footer on Grimley, who therefore had a significant height & weight advantage - think Cheney on Hawkins in round 5 this season).

When Box Hill needed a lift from a key forward in the VFL grand final, Grimley was nowhere to be seen. If it wasn't placed delicately on his chest, then he had no capacity to take possession. His only impact was from a good, solid lead out and chest mark, but apart from that, he offered no presence and no intensity at all.

He's not going to be missed.

Hallahan would have offered good, solid depth at Hawthorn should have stayed, but I take the view, having watched him play for Box Hill over the past few years, that his upside at AFL level is limited and he's unlikely to be a break-out star for the Suns. He'll be a good, solid footballer who will absorb the punishment of playing as an inside midfielder, but I think his lack of pace and average skills would have held him back at Hawthorn. Provided Woody's knees hold up, he has the opportunity to be a better footballer.

Cheney is a solid footballer who offered good depth to Hawthorn, and suffered from having to play out of position due to his height. However, there are better players at AFL level who would stay in front of him and regardless of how great a club man he is and was for the Hawks, he would have struggled to have dislodged any of them. Hawthorn did the right thing by him by trading him to Adelaide where he has a better chance of playing AFL football.

 

[Dixie Flatline]

I realise he's underperformed from what we'd hoped but has something happened more recently to make you dislike him?

To put it simply, I was disgusted with his lack of effort in the VFL grand final. Even before Box Hill started being afflicted by injuries and Rioli sitting out the last quarter, it was though Box Hill was playing a man down. I struggle to think how he could have looked some of his teammates in the eye post-match. A bloke like Ayden Kennedy tore his ACL taking a match-saving mark in the preliminary final and was sitting in the stands having to watch Grimley go through the motions. It boils my blood to even remember it.

 

[Whistling Hawk]

The only 'elite' talent Grimley 'exhibited', was:....A complete absence of any footy I.Q whatsoever!

He's certainly short of football IQ. For me the biggest things he lacked were aggression and work rate. I only got to see the televised VFL games this year on iView (I live in Sydney) and from the few games I saw I was frustrated with his lack of second efforts. If you could put Anderson's aggression and work rate into him we'd have a player... Although given his height and flailing limbs we may also have a player who's elite at giving away frees.

 

[Whistling Hawk]

To put it simply, I was disgusted with his lack of effort in the VFL grand final. Even before Box Hill started being afflicted by injuries and Rioli sitting out the last quarter, it was though Box Hill was playing a man down. I struggle to think how he could have looked some of his teammates in the eye post-match. A bloke like Ayden Kennedy tore his ACL taking a match-saving mark in the preliminary final and was sitting in the stands having to watch Grimley go through the motions. It boils my blood to even remember it.

Fair enough, that's more than a good reason.

 

[Bumpswithagrin]

As in you're surprised it didn't happen earlier?

Goodbye Sam. Don't let the door hit your backside on the way out.

That's a bit harsh. Wouldn't be surprised if he is to be delisted but don't think he deserves a send off like that.

 

[MC_9]

That's a bit harsh. Wouldn't be surprised if he is to be delisted but don't think he deserves a send off like that.

Agreed. Lets show some class.

Can't be an enjoyable time knowing that your football dream is on a knifes edge.

 

[Prudster]

How about we show a little bit of respect guys? You may not rate him as a player, but the guy is still Hawthorn, and even if he is delisted, he gave Hawthorn his services for 5 years, with good contributions to Box Hill. Don't forget that he played a role for Box Hill's premiership team last year.

If his time is up at Hawthorn, then i thank him for his contribution, and wish him all the best in the future, whether that be at another AFL club, or outside of football.

 

[Dixie Flatline]

You're welcome to treat him as you see fit, as posted here and elsewhere.

By the same token, I will not resile from my views about Grimley. As far as I'm concerned, the club would be better off without him.

 

[MrFujiMoto]

Lowden was the best pure tap ruckman we had, Grim won the VFL coleman medal. Halla won the JJ Liston twelve months ago, and Cheney was incredible at that level.

Thinking we're better in depth is insane talk.

Disagree - Hallahan was great at VFL far from proven at AFL level, Grimley won the VFL goalkicking with 30 odd goals, Cheney was excellent at BH and undersized for a KPP at AFL level and Lowden is a good tap ruckman, not something that has really ever worried us, who has cracked 1 game in 6 years.

Swap that for a top 5 KPD, a number 2 draft pick and a number 17 draft pick. Litherland would have Cheney covered and they are expecting TOB to have Grimley covered and he couldn't crack a game ahead of O'Brien this year anyway.
Our depth is stronger this year, easily. We lost a total of, what, 50 odd games out of Lowden, Hallahan, Cheney and Grimley and picked up Frawley, O'Rourke and maybe Blease (181 games experience).

Sewell is the loss of depth, but even he was overlooked due to better players at the pointy end of the season and we certainly have him covered with the likes of Anderson and Whitecross making their way back into selection talks..

 

[MrFujiMoto]

Happen to see Lowden's singular game? Was the better ruckman and finished the game with three goals too. Then AC came back in (Lowden's debut was Bolts' last game in charge) and poverty Ceglar kept his spot for doing sfa while Lowds got dropped.

On Monkhorst.. I've seen him say some pretty darn crazy stupid things around Woori.. god knows the man isn't very bright.

One game against a WCE that were heading nowhere. I liked Cegs one game against the Cats better. I see that you are hinting favoritism by Clarko, I hope he does have favorites, as long as they deliver flags.

 

[Hungry Hawk]

You're welcome to treat him as you see fit, as posted here and elsewhere.

By the same token, I will not resile from my views about Grimley. As far as I'm concerned, the club would be better off without him.

That GF is still biting at you.

 

[WWSD]

Losing players like Hallahan, Lowden and Grimley won't hurt our depth at all. Let's face it, Hallahan was behind in the pecking order. The return of Whitecross and Anderson in 2015 would've put him even further behind and recruiting O'Rourke meant that Hallahan would've more then likely found it tough to break into our side for next year. The fact that Lowden only played 1 game in six years, on top of recruiting a handful of rucks from other clubs during his time as a Hawk, meant that the club didn't rate him that highly.

Our depth is still pretty damn good going into next year. We also have four picks in the National draft and two picks in the rookie draft, futher strengthening our list. There will be a couple of ready made players the club will also target.

Our depth:

Brendan Whitecross: 24 years old (84 games)
Jonathon Ceglar: 23 years old (17 games)
Tim O'Brien: 20 years old (4 games)
Ryan Schoenmakers: 24 years old (79 games)
Matthew Spangher: 27 years old (51 games)
Angus Litherland: 22 years old (13 games)
Jonathan Simpkin: 27 years old (36 games)
Jed Anderson: 20 years old (6 games)
Alex Woodward: 21 years old (2 games)
Billy Hartung: 19 years old (7 games)
Jonathan O'Rourke: 20 years old (9 games)

 

[KAMSTAR HFC]

We are light on for talls pretty hard to drag one in off the street. Schoe could play KPF at a pinch, as could Frawley. Maybe this will be the next Clarko rotation FF-CHB-FB!

As for Grim and Lowden both were given plenty of opportunities to shine. Lesson is you cant shine everything.

Really??

I thought Grimley looked ok in his three games last year. Lowden did shine in his one game.

 

[killerspud]

Happen to see Lowden's singular game? Was the better ruckman and finished the game with three goals too. Then AC came back in (Lowden's debut was Bolts' last game in charge) and poverty Ceglar kept his spot for doing sfa while Lowds got dropped.

On Monkhorst.. I've seen him say some pretty darn crazy stupid things around Woori.. god knows the man isn't very bright.

any change - just any chance you might like to give Clarko some credit for going back to back 13/14 the second one under completely trying circumstances

the amount of rubbish written about clarko in these parts - frankly its embarrassing

 

[Furn2]

I personally dont like the idea of delisting contracted players unless there are exceptional circumstances like with Mitch Thorp. We gave the guy a contract, we should honour it imo.

 

[Dixie Flatline]

I personally dont like the idea of delisting contracted players unless there are exceptional circumstances like with Mitch Thorp. We gave the guy a contract, we should honour it imo.

The way I understand it, Grimley is asking for his release after not finding a new home during the trade period. Hawthorn appears to be happy to oblige.

 

[Thaihawk]

Losing players like Hallahan, Lowden and Grimley won't hurt our depth at all. Let's face it, Hallahan was behind in the pecking order. The return of Whitecross and Anderson in 2015 would've put him even further behind and recruiting O'Rourke meant that Hallahan would've more then likely found it tough to break into our side for next year. The fact that Lowden only played 1 game in six years, on top of recruiting a handful of rucks from other clubs during his time as a Hawk, meant that the club didn't rate him that highly.

Our depth is still pretty damn good going into next year. We also have four picks in the National draft and two picks in the rookie draft, futher strengthening our list. There will be a couple of ready made players the club will also target.

Our depth:

Brendan Whitecross: 24 years old (84 games)
Jonathon Ceglar: 23 years old (17 games)
Tim O'Brien: 20 years old (4 games)
Ryan Schoenmakers: 24 years old (79 games)
Matthew Spangher: 27 years old (51 games)
Angus Litherland: 22 years old (13 games)
Jonathan Simpkin: 27 years old (36 games)
Jed Anderson: 20 years old (6 games)
Alex Woodward: 21 years old (2 games)
Billy Hartung: 19 years old (7 games)
Jonathan O'Rourke: 20 years old (9 games)

Love the look of the last four on your list WWSD. I just hope Woodward can get ten or more games under his belt in 2015, and Whitecross can have a change of luck, and also play confidently. Actually, everyone on that list (exception maybe O'Rourke) could get multiple games next season.

 

[MrFujiMoto]

Wrighty has left? Noooo


They had a role on the senior list for a reason.


Sure, but there's no immediate replacement for him like say, Hallahan and O'Rourke or Frawley/Cheney, so their departures do affect the Hawk's depth.

Going by the fact that he didn't get games this year over TOB, I would say we don't need to replace him at all.

 

[Prudster]

You're welcome to treat him as you see fit, as posted here and elsewhere.

By the same token, I will not resile from my views about Grimley. As far as I'm concerned, the club would be better off without him.

Look, it's one thing to have an opinion, and it's another to be completely disrespectful to a guy who is or was a part of our great club. Why don't we leave the slandering of ex-clubmen to teams like Carlton and Richmond. We, as a supporter group, should hold ourselves to higher standards than that.

 

[hfc70]

As far as I can see, DF, is offering his opinion. Like it or not, its his opinion.
Why sugar coat things just to conform. I prefer people to call it as they see it.
If people get offended, well, that's their problem.

 

[Sleutheren]

Just regarding the Lowden/Ceglar comparison posts..

I'd say they're pretty even matched skills wise, but Ceglar has a bit of mongrel about him. That puts him well in front in my book. He also held his nerve multiple times through the year in pressure situations. Whether it was kicking an important goal or taking that extra half a second to make sure his handball target was on, he continued fulfill his role.
Obviously Lowden had little chance to show what he was capable of in the seniors, and granted he did slot 3 in his solitary game. But that was against West Coast and we never were truly pressured when it mattered.

 

[Prudster]

As far as I can see, DF, is offering his opinion. Like it or not, its his opinion.
Why sugar coat things just to conform. I prefer people to call it as they see it.
If people get offended, well, that's their problem.

Again, people can have an opinion about a player without being completely disrespectful. You can discuss his poor GF, or the fact his Frosty Miller medal was won with a small goal tally, and that he kicked a lot of those goals in a few games. Nobody has an issue with pointing out his weaknesses, whether they be his game sense, or the fact he has all the physical traits and just hasn't put it all together. But there is no reason to have a crack at a guy who gave a good contribution to Hawthorn as a club, even if you don't agree with everything he did, or even the way he played the game.

You say people shouldn't sugar coat it, but my point is you can still get your point across without just slandering the guy. This guy is a human being, and has his own issues and challenges, and there's just no reason to be saying some of the things in this thread. Like i said, lets have a little class and leave that s**t to clubs like Richmond.

 

[hfc70]

slander

1. 1.
   the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation.

As far as I have read, DF, has not spoken falsely, I'd like you to highlight otherwise.

And as far as damaging Grimleys reputation, well, Grimley would be best to answer that.

 

[tommyk72]

Love the look of the last four on your list WWSD. I just hope Woodward can get ten or more games under his belt in 2015, and Whitecross can have a change of luck, and also play confidently. Actually, everyone on that list (exception maybe O'Rourke) could get multiple games next season.

Am assuming you mean that O'Rourke might get more of a run than the others? Or are you thinking he won't crack the team? Would be very surprised to not see him get multiple games next year. I think the club sees him as a talent and will want to get him in the team some how (i.e Anderson in his debut year).