2014 Potential Draftee and Trade Watch

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May 6, 2007
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Personally , I don't think there is one. Perhaps not brilliantly quick but the reason he is not getting games?..... Maybe he just doesn't have a super strong asset. Good kick, good at clearances...etc. Caddy has come in and just gone a little past him but I feel he would be getting games at 4-8 other clubs.

From an Essendon p.o.v, what would it take to get a possible deal done?

(bear in mind our crap pick position)

I'd like to think we are in the market for a young inside midfielder since our ones haven't developed as we would have liked. Will Hams - injured, Nick O'Brien - struggling for development, Elliot Kavanagh - struggling for development. Perhaps only David Myers and Dyson Heppel are our best young inside midfielders with not a great deal else coming through.
 
Dec 10, 2003
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From an Essendon p.o.v, what would it take to get a possible deal done?

(bear in mind our crap pick position)

I'd like to think we are in the market for a young inside midfielder since our ones haven't developed as we would have liked. Will Hams - injured, Nick O'Brien - struggling for development, Elliot Kavanagh - struggling for development. Perhaps only David Myers and Dyson Heppel are our best young inside midfielders with not a great deal else coming through.

Of course every club think there players are worth 2 R1 picks while in trading for other a R3 or R4 at the most.

Considering he has been here a while , and has failed to push into the side I doubt it would be much higher than what got for a Premiership ruck in Trent West , that was P41 ( top of the head)
 
Not sure where else to ask this but whats the big knock on Jordan Schroder?
I like him but I think I'm in the minority.

Another case of wrong place, wrong time.

Probably would do all right with a change of scenery but I'd be sad to see him leave without really getting a chance to see what he could do with a decent run at it.
 

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A few questions posed here.

Well Im certainly swimming against the tide on this one. All of what you say is hard to dispute , but id still maintain a mature FA is very cost effective , and if a certain player went down with a knee or went to another club he or players lie he would be worth a look.

Nothing wrong with having a look but, as I mentioned, Rosa isn't one I'd worry about. As for a mature player to act as cover I'd point you in the direction of Sherringham.

Of corse id love a Dangerfield or a great potential kid from where ever, but under current FA rules players of Rivers age is the only top liner that we can have a free swing at. If the AFL change the rules then fine look at younger.

Its a fine line to tread of being a roadblock or building a bridge to cover a chasm. Im all for giving young guys a go but Im also aware of the Prismall rule (for lack of a better description) , sometimes there is a reason why they struggle and struggle and look denied there chance . They are short of the level.

So has Brown really been held back by Rivers? I cant honestly say I think he has. Right now , this year , I think we may just be seeing someone who may just get held back by Rivers ie JK but I suspect he will find a way into the side when ready.
I'll answer the latter part of the paragraph because it would be well known on this section of the board that I'm not in the "Brown will make it" camp.

That isn't to say I wish him ill but I just don't think he'll ever be what many people hope/want him to be. The fact he started up forward, then went down back and has been returned to the forward line says to me that the coaches aren't really sure where to play him and they are trying to find out if there is a position for him while trying to give him games to build his confidence and experience.

Rivers would have stymied that development down back as that is where Brown was being trialled when Rivers arrived.

Vardy was earmarked for the spot vacated by Pods when we shipped Pods out but circumstances have conspired to see Brown back to where he is, in my mind, more natural.

Yet I notice Walker has pushed his way in front again (in the short-term at least).

The nod wasn't given to the guy who played the first 3 rounds it was given to the guy who got some runs on the board in the 2s.

Has Brown really improved that much (injuries or not)? I don't think he has.

I won't write him off (I learnt my lesson with Simpson last year) but I don't have high hopes.

My fear this year was Hmac using up Simpsons game time , but as its worked out he may actually be helping his development by sharing the work load.

I think we all agree , we have greater need elsewhere but the midfield is the key to any sides competitiveness. Ideally a quality kid 203 forward,ruck comes our way this year but that will not be happening thru FA.
Let's not discount Lang and Jansen too quickly. They still have a couple of years to develop while we have Selwood, Johnson, Christensen, Caddy, Guthrie and Horlin-Smith doing the short-term heavy lifting.

The pressing need is in the key defensive post (to sound like a broken record).

If we can get another young key forward as well, great.
 
Dec 10, 2003
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A few questions posed here.



Nothing wrong with having a look but, as I mentioned, Rosa isn't one I'd worry about. As for a mature player to act as cover I'd point you in the direction of Sherringham.

I'll answer the latter part of the paragraph because it would be well known on this section of the board that I'm not in the "Brown will make it" camp.

That isn't to say I wish him ill but I just don't think he'll ever be what many people hope/want him to be. The fact he started up forward, then went down back and has been returned to the forward line says to me that the coaches aren't really sure where to play him and they are trying to find out if there is a position for him while trying to give him games to build his confidence and experience.

Rivers would have stymied that development down back as that is where Brown was being trialled when Rivers arrived.

Vardy was earmarked for the spot vacated by Pods when we shipped Pods out but circumstances have conspired to see Brown back to where he is, in my mind, more natural.

Yet I notice Walker has pushed his way in front again (in the short-term at least).

The nod wasn't given to the guy who played the first 3 rounds it was given to the guy who got some runs on the board in the 2s.

Has Brown really improved that much (injuries or not)? I don't think he has.

I won't write him off (I learnt my lesson with Simpson last year) but I don't have high hopes.

Let's not discount Lang and Jansen too quickly. They still have a couple of years to develop while we have Selwood, Johnson, Christensen, Caddy, Guthrie and Horlin-Smith doing the short-term heavy lifting.

The pressing need is in the key defensive post (to sound like a broken record).

If we can get another young key forward as well, great.

A lot in this post , and I fear no matter what I will not be able whole heartedly point out errors in what your say , so much I agree with.

Put it this way , I doubt we will chase or recruit Rosa but then I was astounded we went after Hmac and a little be less so , after Rivers.

To keep developing the correct way we can not afford to have too many too young all at the same time. If we we need to add another seasoned player to balance the numbers for what ever reason , Id look at it. As yet Sherringham ( although I like him ) is very much fringe player , better than Stringer, Schroder , etc ??? My point basically is a mature proven performer at the level to come in a do a Stokes for us would fill a hole....IF one was there at the mature end. Now as has happened to all of us , we over rate and under rate our list and others. The internal guys would have a far better grasp and feel for our Sherringhams. If they wished to back them in fine. And likewize when they go outside there is a reason, like with Rivers and Hmac.

Overall I feel midfield is not an area you can neglect or say your covered in. It needs continual and perpetual maintenance. Every time we have a draft and get a mid, whether we are strong or not , Im hoping we can at least pressure our best 22. Jansen this year for instance , Im hoping for a game or two. Lang , probably not. For him Im just hoping he becomes a really solid VFL player because like it or not the kid will continue to be compared to Dunstan. If Lang becomes our new Cowan , not great. In the end no matter the quality of development and extra efforts, the truth is some players will just come up short or the level required. Sometimes its injury that stymies your youth progression.

On our pressing needs. I cant agree anymore on what it is anymore. Id say we have two years to groom another tallish back. If Rivers keep his form up he will get another year. But the addition of JK has me very confident we are on the right track. Add Hamling and I do not think its dire. We may FA another if needed or perhaps another of our talls develop. Too early to tell about Toohey who knows.

But Up forward Im a little more concerned due to our inability to keep guys on the park. A fit Menzel, Kersten, Vardy ,McCarthy,Burbury and Hawkins makes a formidable and youthful forwardline. At this stage I have no idea how long any of these guys have.
Add the way we thinned our ruck stocks and a bit Forward Ruck maybe something id like to look at. The kid Wright would be ideal but as usual will not get a sniff , unless we do something we haven't done in a long time , get down and dirty at the trade table.
 

Jagshemash

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The only way I'd look at someone like Rosa is if we had a sudden rush of senior midfield retirements at seasons end. I doubt this will happen so I'd prefer to play youth. Getting Rosa as a depth player would be too expensive and will also be taking a primary list position.
 

meto

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Dec 3, 2008
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The only way I'd look at someone like Rosa is if we had a sudden rush of senior midfield retirements at seasons end. I doubt this will happen so I'd prefer to play youth. Getting Rosa as a depth player would be too expensive and will also be taking a primary list position.

I think you're right, we have enough midfield depth albeit to many as some will have to be dropped off to make way for fresh talent.
A key defender and a big forward are important needs given Brown will be gone, because apart from Hawkins there are no standouts, maybe Walker, we'll soon see.
 
Dec 10, 2003
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As I said Im swimming against the tide, but depth player? Is Rivers a depth player? Is Stokes? Im all for playing kids, if anyone has read and retained what I type would know but Im talking balance and talent. He has shown what he can do at the level, he has probably done more than some on our list will ever do. IF we can get a Caddy type with out paying Caddy trade amounts then fine. If we can get Dangerfield great that very high end and probably worth the cost. But FA is a cheap option especially if we lose a mature player somehow. Anyway time to move one, its not like Im that single minded on him.

I see a few of the kids we have named getting a game for the GCHWS this week end. Tomlinson for one. Might have a look and see what the rave is about.The only vision I have seen of him is pre draft, he would have to of changed since then.
 

meto

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Noticed tonight Brisbane playing their draft pick 33 Nick Robertson, that's game 2 or three I think. He's going ok too, I really thought he'd be a definite one to pick but they got in just before us.
He's a Jansen type, that's why I think we picked Jansen, he was gone.
I hope Wells has a similar type on his radar again this year, and we trade for better picks.
 
If Bomber keeps playing Carlisle up forward and Jake keeps sooking it up and putting in crap efforts I'd be all over him at year's end promising him a key defensive post.

Dreams, yes, we all have them.
 
Dec 10, 2003
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Would pay round 1 pick and some.

Really , is he that good ? If was looking at that much I think Id like to trade for an early pick to get someone like Wright. IMO , thats the area of greater need in two years time , not our d end. We have a few options on the list , could add another FA (much easier to get a defender than a forward) What we do with him now if he was on out list. Play Taylor forward?
 
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Dec 10, 2003
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Noticed tonight Brisbane playing their draft pick 33 Nick Robertson, that's game 2 or three I think. He's going ok too, I really thought he'd be a definite one to pick but they got in just before us.
He's a Jansen type, that's why I think we picked Jansen, he was gone.
I hope Wells has a similar type on his radar again this year, and we trade for better picks.

Meto , its been interesting this year watching the kids that we were talking about playing. Robertson & Dunstan. But the one ive been impressed with who I obvious under rated was the Falcon kid Lewy Taylor. Watching him play , he would have been handy at the Cats for sure. Is there a player that you have seen that you under rated?

But as you alluded to we have a knack for picking up what the Cats need , even its the name "we" didn't previously prefer. Im confident Lang, Jansen and Kolodjashnij will be a quality three picks. They may take different amounts of time so we have just got to be patient. So far from what Ie seen the Lang pick is 'Out There" but we can't really judge till he has been on the list a couple of years.
 

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Jagshemash

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Really , is he that good ? If was looking at that much I think Id like to trade for an early pick to get someone like Wright. IMO , thats the area of greater need in two years time , not our d end. We have a few options on the list , could add another FA (much easier to get a defender than a forward) What we do with him now if he was on out list. Play Taylor forward?
Yeah I would mate. You've got to give quality to get quality (and I'd back Wells to find quality late in the draft as he can at times be ambitious with those teens picks). He would be a 10 year KPD, he is only 22. As I've said earlier I think our tall forwards are a bit of a perceived issue due to injury, whereas our tall backs are ageing and will be the bigger need in the near future. I've seen enough of Kersten live to be comfortable in saying he'll be promising key forward.

And yes, if Carlisle was in the cats line-up now, Taylor goes forward.
 
Dec 10, 2003
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Yeah I would mate. You've got to give quality to get quality (and I'd back Wells to find quality late in the draft as he can at times be ambitious with those teens picks). He would be a 10 year KPD, he is only 22. As I've said earlier I think our tall forwards are a bit of a perceived issue due to injury, whereas our tall backs are ageing and will be the bigger need in the near future. I've seen enough of Kersten live to be comfortable in saying he'll be promising key forward.

And yes, if Carlisle was in the cats line-up now, Taylor goes forward.

Give to get is common thought process , just do not see him as that good i guess.R 1 + what?
 
Dec 10, 2003
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Steak knives. Essendon poster above liked Schroder. Alternatively a late shuffle of picks.
Yeah...they'd want more that. Not worth what I think they would want but id guess a R1 P16/P18 ish plus a player that cant secure a regular senior spot that we probably will go close to delisting , will be short of the Bombers demands. Two picks in the top 30 with one in the top 10 is what Id guess.
 

Jagshemash

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Yeah...they'd want more that. Not worth what I think they would want but id guess a R1 P16/P18 ish plus a player that cant secure a regular senior spot that we probably will go close to delisting , will be short of the Bombers demands. Two picks in the top 30 with one in the top 10 is what Id guess.
Contracted for next year anyway, so perhaps we should save this discussion for another 12 months.
 
Dec 10, 2003
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Contracted for next year anyway, so perhaps we should save this discussion for another 12 months.
If club and player are looking slant eye at each other , then the contract means little except both have to be happy with the outcome. Not so much for us but a team like Carlton , I could see them telling him we want you and will play you where ever you want. Hendo is happy to play where ever.
Im afraid you and I on a different pages with our forwards for the future, Id like another you KPF unfortunately it will have to be a slightly less than star pick. McCartin for instance will be gone by our pick, Goddard too. Plenty of time yet to spot some names , but the champs go a little longer this year , gives kids a longer chance to stand up and be noticed.
 

Jagshemash

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If club and player are looking slant eye at each other , then the contract means little except both have to be happy with the outcome. Not so much for us but a team like Carlton , I could see them telling him we want you and will play you where ever you want. Hendo is happy to play where ever.
Im afraid you and I on a different pages with our forwards for the future, Id like another you KPF unfortunately it will have to be a slightly less than star pick. McCartin for instance will be gone by our pick, Goddard too. Plenty of time yet to spot some names , but the champs go a little longer this year , gives kids a longer chance to stand up and be noticed.
So you don't think Kersten, Vardy and Walker will make the cut? Sure grab another pick as a KPF, but are they really going to be ahead of our other younger forwards? They will take even longer...Tom Boyd had 2 touches today as an example. I just feel KPD (even if we have to trade) should be a more primary concern because the players that we do have as back-up are still being groomed for AFL, even JK. If Lonners decides to retire this year, we may have to trade for a replacement or be forced to change a defensive structure that has worked so well for so long.
 
Dec 10, 2003
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So you don't think Kersten, Vardy and Walker will make the cut? Sure grab another pick as a KPF, but are they really going to be ahead of our other younger forwards? They will take even longer...Tom Boyd had 2 touches today as an example. I just feel KPD (even if we have to trade) should be a more primary concern because the players that we do have as back-up are still being groomed for AFL, even JK. If Lonners decides to retire this year, we may have to trade for a replacement or be forced to change a defensive structure that has worked so well for so long.

On talent...( as I said earlier) our forwardline of Hawkins , Menzel, Vardy , Kersten , Burbs , McCarthy.... all looks good but all of theses players have proven to have injury issues. No one could question Hawkins but I do know what a crook back can do so I would not be offering any Buddy type contracts to him. He may be finished by 30 ? who knows.
And as you say , it takes time.

Down back if we really had a Lonergan retirement , id say we would move heaven and earth to then go after someone like Frawley , FA player and go to the draft and try to find another Kolodjashnij. But unless you know something I don't , I can see Lonergan playing for a while yet
 

Jagshemash

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On talent...( as I said earlier) our forwardline of Hawkins , Menzel, Vardy , Kersten , Burbs , McCarthy.... all looks good but all of theses players have proven to have injury issues. No one could question Hawkins but I do know what a crook back can do so I would not be offering any Buddy type contracts to him. He may be finished by 30 ? who knows.
And as you say , it takes time.

Down back if we really had a Lonergan retirement , id say we would move heaven and earth to then go after someone like Frawley , FA player and go to the draft and try to find another Kolodjashnij. But unless you know something I don't , I can see Lonergan playing for a while yet
Yes hopefully Lonergan plays for a while yet. Let's hope we bring in a KPF and KPD so we're both happy at seasons end!
 
As I said Im swimming against the tide, but depth player? Is Rivers a depth player? Is Stokes? Im all for playing kids, if anyone has read and retained what I type would know but Im talking balance and talent. He has shown what he can do at the level, he has probably done more than some on our list will ever do. IF we can get a Caddy type with out paying Caddy trade amounts then fine. If we can get Dangerfield great that very high end and probably worth the cost. But FA is a cheap option especially if we lose a mature player somehow. Anyway time to move one, its not like Im that single minded on him.

I see a few of the kids we have named getting a game for the GCHWS this week end. Tomlinson for one. Might have a look and see what the rave is about.The only vision I have seen of him is pre draft, he would have to of changed since then.

But with Rivers and Hamish we had needs in those positions. Had we not got Rivers our third tall back would have been Gillies (gulp) or say Brown or Hamling, neither of whom are sure bets.
Meanwhile in the ruck we had West battling on his own (because everyone else was injured), plus a steeplechaser and part timers like Walker. We needed to bolster those positions.

Meanwhile, we have a midfield of Selwood SJ Kelly Stokes Duncan Christensen Caddy Guthrie and ocassionally a Bartel or Motlop. I don't really see what part of that needs bolestering by Rosa and where he'd be anything much better than depth.
 

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