List Mgmt. 2014: The List

[Azul]

However my point was that if he is not getting significant game time his value is decreasing, and after 2 years of playing mainly VFL he runs the risk that no-one will want him once we are ready to cut him from the list.

We were desperate to trade a ruck 12 months ago and I'm sure both Shaun and Robbie were put on the table. Hampson attracted interest and the rest is history.

No one is likely to pick him up. A 3 man interchange makes him an unattractive prospect as he has no aptitude as a resting forward. He needs to play first ruck but as we saw late in the season fatigued and possibly carrying injuries, can't sustain it week-in week-out across 22 weeks.

 

[Weiterbot23]

Bell needs to close the gap between his best and worst, i like that his a big body mid and kicks goals aswell but his kicking is a concern and if you can't kick then your a liability. I do want him to improve his efficiency if can't id trade him while his got some value. I know his young but these are the honest truths

100% agree.

I really noticed his poor field kicking at a preseason training session this year. Was kicking in a triangle with 2E and Buckley. Had an awful lean to the side action and missed a couple of targets with no pressure.

Badly needs to improve or he won't make it, but if he gets it right he'll be a very handy player.


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[CFCtragic]

We were desperate to trade a ruck 12 months ago and I'm sure both Shaun and Robbie were put on the table. Hampson attracted interest and the rest is history.

No one is likely to pick him up. A 3 man interchange makes him an unattractive prospect as he has no aptitude as a resting forward. He needs to play first ruck but as we saw late in the season fatigued and possibly carrying injuries, can't sustain it week-in week-out across 22 weeks.

I think we agree, IMHO Robbie's only chance to extend his career is to try and find a team that is in desperate need to a 1st ruck, convince Carlton to let him go and move for free as a DFA.

Clearly no-one will trade for him, and if he plays another year in the VFL, I think it will be over for him.

 

[CFCtragic]

So we're now clear on the spots we have to fill, being a total of 9 over the spread of the list.

We can't be absolutely sure of the way we'll use those spots but 4 in the ND, the pick up of a DFA and one in the PSD along with 3 in the RD looks likely.

Looks like 12 new faces to follow in the pre-season then......

Not quite sure how it works, if you want to pickup a player from one of the national leagues (SANFL, WAFL, etc) is that the PSD?

This might change the split a little as IMO both the WAFL and SANFL are starting to develop a few players with AFL attributes.

 

[zeeCFC]

100% agree.

I really noticed his poor field kicking at a preseason training session this year. Was kicking in a triangle with 2E and Buckley. Had an awful lean to the side action and missed a couple of targets with no pressure.

Badly needs to improve or he won't make it, but if he gets it right he'll be a very handy player.


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The later the season went the more impact he had as regained fitness after that damn finger injury. His preseason was so dominant from memory. Field kicking aside he could potentially have Fyfe like impacts on games.

The four against Gold Coast are all individual brilliance goals. Can't wait to see if he can get a good injury free season in

 

[The Edukator]

I was very impressed with Lucas in his first season. I remember an outstanding game against Geelong at the MCG. A rare game where we beat Geelong. He was on fire and did his hamstring twice in the games that followed that season. I want to know what happened to the guy when he returned the following season. I think he lost confidence and never regained the form from his first season. I might even be a little batty but his running style changed so much it's difficult to believe it was the same guy. I've followed footy for fifty years and Lucas wasn't that bad.

Sometimes when i play team sports I dominate. Sometimes I have poor games. Usually I play pretty solid.

Just because I have a ripper game occasionally it doesn't mean I'm as good as the guys that consistently have ripping games.

Unfortunately for Kane he was consistently more poor than he was good. I'd say that's a better indication of the player he was for Carlton than the odd good game.

 

[LordLucifer]

I think we agree, IMHO Robbie's only chance to extend his career is to try and find a team that is in desperate need to a 1st ruck, convince Carlton to let him go and move for free as a DFA.

Clearly no-one will trade for him, and if he plays another year in the VFL, I think it will be over for him.

Warnock will be delisted at the end of 2015.

 

[Azul]

Warnock will be delisted at the end of 2015.

Probably but there are still question marks over Kreuzer's rehab and I'm not convinced Wood is AFL standard.

Let's get the foundations in place for a succession plan, by recruiting a kid or two, in this year's drafts.

 

[dumb]

i expect another middling year, make the finals if we're lucky (partly through draw), but between 9-13th. you can't savage the list and expect to shoot up the ladder, but then that's part of doing things properly this time of year - sustained success if/when it arrives rather than climbing the ladder ASAP at all costs. i expect a few gift games much like when malthouse took over, both see where players are at (joseph, davies) and then to get some experience into players (cripps/graham/holman). not a lot to fall back on in case of injury, but that's one of the times you build depth.

 

[gbatman]

Agility is as much as a problem for Mclean as speed. A guy like Priddis can change direction and has much sharper lateral movement than Mclean who is also not overly quick with his hands. I think Mclean has worked pretty hard, knows how to run to space to find it and really plays more like an outside player than an inside one at times. Has been very much a straight line player compared to someone like Mitchell who's evasive movements and ball handling skills are at the top end of the scale.

 

[Dramoth]

Honestly i dont buy this in his case. whilst i agree that they can hold you back mentally and physically, his skills were a major let down, way too often. Too many times he'd get the ball and completely waste his possession, this isnt because he couldnt run or mark. He just wasnt up to it.

Thats what you have convinced yourself of. Last year he played 17 games and started to look like he was coming along nicely. This year, because of one really bad game, he couldnt buy a place.

And his skills weren't that bad to be honest... he just came more under the spotlight because there were people who were always wanting to bag him for a bad game. They blamed him for his lack of development when it should be the coaches that came more under scrutiny than he should have.

It's like the comment that someone else made about how Casboult's juniors coach needed his arse kicked when all the facts point to Cas being a good solid shot on goal with 41.14 on the score sheets for his final year.

Personally, I think that there are people out there who wanted Talia so badly that they are tainted towards Lucas. However... if the club hadn't handed over pick 11 for McLean, it is quite possible that we could have taken both Talia and Lucas. But considering how our development of talls prior to Mick taking over, I am willing to bet that Talia would have been labeled a dud by all the people who have labeled Lucas a dud.

 

[BM123]

8-12 for me with our list in 2015 but our future prospects look a lot better nowadays then they did after rd 4.

Waite leaving will help the list imo as the team was far too dependent on him mentally and Robinson, Mclean leaving opens up spots for the younger guys to come on.

 

[MileHigh]

Are we a serious chance at finals? Our only improvement seems to potentially be from having a fit list. We've lost key players and plenty of experience.

We need a good fixture and luck with injuries to not have another poor year IMO.

Disagree my man. Always appreciate your opinion, and you are right we will benefit from a better schedule considering we finished bottom 8 as well as certainly not having as many injuries/surgeries during the off season. However, what key players have we really lost from our 2014 campaign?

McLean - 16 games
Waite - 16 games (previous seasons of 14, 11, 12, 16, 9 games from 2013 backwards)
Mitch Robinson - 12 games
Garlett - 9 games
Lucas - 7 games

I would call Waite, Garlett and Robinson all destabilising people to have had on the list in terms of attitude around the club not fully buying into what we are about, and we aren't losing anyone who was really contributing every week except for perhaps a McLean. The biggest argument you could forge I would suggest would be that we are losing 2 hard mids so we may look a little softer around the packs and for protection of Marc.

I think based on what has transpired this off season, stability almost moves you up the pecking order. If you break the league into categories -

Strong/stable
Hawks
Swans
Cats
Port
Freo

Middle of the table/stable
West Coast
North Melbourne
Richmond

Middle of the table/volatile
Essendon (ASADA/Ryder)
Adelaide (New coach)
Collingwood (Huge turnover of experience)
Gold Coast (New coach)

Lower table/rebuild
Bulldogs
Brisbane
GWS
Melbourne
St Kilda

So, where do we sit in all this? We aren't in the first category. We finished the table middle to lower bottom of the ladder, but we are stable. Certainly more stable than Essendon, Adelaide, Collingwood and Gold Coast. I would most certainly put us in the West Coast, NM and Richmond category and based on that simplistic analysis I have us pegged for a 6th-9th finish. I think that is a perfectly acceptable assumption at this very early stage.

Stability is a funny thing. The more I look at it, the more I see it being the key. If you have an injury, do you have a player to fill it or are you stretched? Has there been much change in your coaching panel and/or board?

I think we are incredibly stable and building on that stability at present, and that is based on looking at our club individually as well as comparatively to the rest of the league. I also think the way we finished the year, the big reduction in off season surgeries compared to 2014 and a more favourable draw thanks to finishing in the bottom 8 means all really results in an analysis for mine that we should expect a return to the final 8 next year.

P.S. Look forward to welcoming back Kreuzer in 2015!

 

[jj1978]

We could finish anywhere next season... Top 4 or even bottom 4..

Our 3 oldest players (Judd, Carazzo, Simpson) are still performing consistently with most likely Judd, Carazzo with 1-2 left in them...Simpson seems to be Harvey like in that I suspect he could play till late 30s.

Then looking at the rest of the list we have a a good blend of youth and mid 20s.

We've lost our rat-pack in Eddie, Garlett, Robinson... With only Yarran remaining who is now taking his footy serious (what love can do... Or mick) and the players are now in no doubt who is in charge now.... The tail is not wagging the dog anymore... We're not going to see players controlling the coaches future or being buddies with the coach anymore.. Professional environment finally.

I feel something brewing and bar injuries the new mentality of this group could reach some great heights.

 

[zeeCFC]

Disagree my man. Always appreciate your opinion, and you are right we will benefit from a better schedule considering we finished bottom 8 as well as certainly not having as many injuries/surgeries during the off season. However, what key players have we really lost from our 2014 campaign?

McLean - 16 games
Waite - 16 games (previous seasons of 14, 11, 12, 16, 9 games from 2013 backwards)
Mitch Robinson - 12 games
Garlett - 9 games
Lucas - 7 games

I would call Waite, Garlett and Robinson all destabilising people to have had on the list in terms of attitude around the club not fully buying into what we are about, and we aren't losing anyone who was really contributing every week except for perhaps a McLean. The biggest argument you could forge I would suggest would be that we are losing 2 hard mids so we may look a little softer around the packs and for protection of Marc.

I think based on what has transpired this off season, stability almost moves you up the pecking order. If you break the league into categories -

Strong/stable
Hawks
Swans
Cats
Port
Freo

Middle of the table/stable
West Coast
North Melbourne
Richmond

Middle of the table/volatile
Essendon (ASADA/Ryder)
Adelaide (New coach)
Collingwood (Huge turnover of experience)
Gold Coast (New coach)

Lower table/rebuild
Bulldogs
Brisbane
GWS
Melbourne
St Kilda

So, where do we sit in all this? We aren't in the first category. We finished the table middle to lower bottom of the ladder, but we are stable. Certainly more stable than Essendon, Adelaide, Collingwood and Gold Coast. I would most certainly put us in the West Coast, NM and Richmond category and based on that simplistic analysis I have us pegged for a 6th-9th finish. I think that is a perfectly acceptable assumption at this very early stage.

Stability is a funny thing. The more I look at it, the more I see it being the key. If you have an injury, do you have a player to fill it or are you stretched? Has there been much change in your coaching panel and/or board?

I think we are incredibly stable and building on that stability at present, and that is based on looking at our club individually as well as comparatively to the rest of the league. I also think the way we finished the year, the big reduction in off season surgeries compared to 2014 and a more favourable draw thanks to finishing in the bottom 8 means all really results in an analysis for mine that we should expect a return to the final 8 next year.

P.S. Look forward to welcoming back Kreuzer in 2015!

We finished 12th or whatever with those guys in the side. Waite is the only one in the list who had a good 2014 but the players we've lost due to form or retirement/trades since 2013 have hurt us and will continue to unless we have players that stand up.

Waite, Betts, Garlett, Scotland, McLean were enormous for us and we need new blokes to step up. So far only Menzel has stepped up as a forward while the midfield has really struggled.

Will be an interesting preseason.

 

[Faz 2000]

I would call Waite, Garlett and Robinson all destabilising people to have had on the list in terms of attitude around the club not fully buying into what we are about

Agree that all were weak-minded and undisciplined in the way the team needed them to be. All could/should have been better players than they were if their heads were on right.

This is something I am confident Malthouse IS on top of - weeding out the players who will crack under pressure. With all three of these guys listed, their best was wonderful but just when we really needed them to be great, they'd let the team down with an invisible performance, or errors, or frees against, etc.

The best teams are chock full of "winners". I felt all these guys were used to losing, expected to lose, and often-times when we really needed something they would find a way to screw it up. I know it sounds harsh, and of course all these guys had their moments, but none of them were the right guys to take the club forward.

 

[ajb72]

Having a fit squad and relatively injury free run through pre-season will make a huge difference.

I am bullish about next year.

 

[Faz 2000]

Having a fit squad and relatively injury free run through pre-season will make a huge difference.

I am bullish about this year.

Yes, that would make a massive difference, but that's the next big gap we have to bridge to be a decent side. It's no good being able to win "when we have a fully fit side" or "when things go our way" if we're deplorable the rest of the time. Good teams find ways to win when they're not playing well, or cover injuries. Hawthorn this year being the absolute stand-out example. Our best (and any team's best, really) is good, but when we're off our game everyone can beat us (see Melbourne, GWS, etc). That is flimsy and what makes us a crap side.

 

[LordLucifer]

Probably but there are still question marks over Kreuzer's rehab and I'm not convinced Wood is AFL standard.

Let's get the foundations in place for a succession plan, by recruiting a kid or two, in this year's drafts.

Absolutely crucial, just has to happen this year.

 

[LordLucifer]

That's up to Warnock now isn't it?
If Wood has been assured of another 2 years as we believe, Warnock has a pretty good idea of what's going on.

I think we'll have a pretty good idea as to Warnocks fate before a ball gets bounced in 2015. The pre-season will tell its own story.

I think the writing is well & truly on the wall for Robbie, if he is able to somehow magically transform himself into something useful then that would be great but I wouldn't want to bet on that happening.

 

[ajb72]

Yes, that would make a massive difference, but that's the next big gap we have to bridge to be a decent side. It's no good being able to win "when we have a fully fit side" or "when things go our way" if we're deplorable the rest of the time. Good teams find ways to win when they're not playing well, or cover injuries. Hawthorn this year being the absolute stand-out example. Our best (and any team's best, really) is good, but when we're off our game everyone can beat us (see Melbourne, GWS, etc). That is flimsy and what makes us a crap side.

Agree with some of that but not all. I am not talking about picking up an injury or two. I am talking about the fitness of the squad.

Hawthorn won the flag in 2008 but had significant numbers of players put in for surgeries and thus lack of pre-seasons. Then failed to reach finals in 2009.
Carlton had a ridiculous amount of players with surgeries and restricted preseasons in 2014. The lack of fitness base for the majority of the squad was shown throughout the year when Carlton were not able to maintain a decent level through any quarter, let alone for the total of a match. I think if we get a reasonable preseason we are already well ahead of where we were this year.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

What is the realistic expectation for 2015, IMO we have taken a fairly big step backwards in order to be able to go forward but even with a softer draw I think any thoughts on finals should be abandoned.

 

[Cringle]

With the form we played with during the final 6 or so games (excluding Port VS Northern Blues) finals are a real possibility. However I personally believe we'll finish between 8-11.

 

[James_Blues]

Something that will work in our favour is the fixture if they use the top 6, middle 6, bottom 6 system again

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

With the form we played with during the final 6 or so games (excluding Port VS Northern Blues) finals are a real possibility. However I personally believe we'll finish between 8-11.

My concern is that a lot of that good late season form was down to the improved output of J Waite.... And C Judd