My point is not about individual trades on their own. It is the overall management of our list over a long time. Been very ordinary to say the least. We just seem to have not identified the true worth our our resources on list at many points. It is not about a single trade or even one or two free agency attempts. It is the whole thing together as overall list management showing we seem to not known how to maintain a strong list when we had it or build one after we stuffed up . By maintain a strong list , I meant keep it relatively strong by having a plan knowing at some stage champion careers end so you got to plan when and how to get new resources in. Not easy but have some bloody plan of some type would be nice. Champions are precious. They do not come cheap. You got to get future ones even when older ones have to end up at some stage. Hoping picks 15 to 80 will unearth them just does not cut it as a plan.
I was simply making a point of where I considered our list was in terms of player resources when I mentioned those names. Basically meaning us pinning hopes on guys like Jones and Watson being the types you build a premiership list out of, was head in sand stuff for mine. Dixon and Patton were just example of similar positioning types that if we had them rather than those two we actually would have some serious talent to get genuinely excited about. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying Jones etc. are completely and utterly useless. I'm just pointing out they are fringe players and help a team out. Not make a team. They are not players you build a forward line around that likely to have big success.
I'm not. It is others doing that. Not me. It is some of you guys having a go at me out of context with overall point that misunderstood my overall contention that we have sucked as a club with list management for some time. Due to me making comments on some other recent happenings related to list for some reason a few people mis-read into it I was simply sinking boot into someone which I never did to any recruiter. Amazing how that seem to be tone of some responses in insular manner. Never anywhere have I said any particular individual recruiter that on staff now is a complete and utter fool. Somehow a few posters have seemed to misconstrue that as being what I said. It is those guys comparing. Not me. I don't even know them.
I'm sure all of recruiters working for us now are good people but the facts remain for mine I see nothing to see that excites me all of a sudden we truly got a handle of list management since salary cap, drafting and free agency systems are in place. I just see a similar trend in last year and a bit that seem to gone on from time to time in a period we have sucked in results. How that gets seen as comparing is beyond me. I've never seen us be good at it at any time in modern era of caps and drafts and I'm still hoping it changes for massive paradigm shift and actually GET SOME OVERALL PLAN.
Still things going on that don't impress me that we really got it about managing a list. The most recent to show me there is no real overall plan is Betts, Waite, Robinson and Garlett going for basically zilch is a loss of resources to our list in playing ability. I'm not talking about micro-management of list and each player and trade transaction and each draft. I'm talking about the whole list and seeing it as playing resources and getting a sense of worth. A sign of an overall plan to me would be getting something of real worth when players of ability go from list. A plan finds a way when a group of players go that worth something in playing ability gets you something back of similar worth whether that be younger players that shown something or draft picks likely to get similar talent in future. It is why I used the extreme example of the late 90's having so many players retire and therefore allowing the list to degrade in terms of resources very quickly. There was no plan in place at all of being in a new era of list management how to have players come and go yet still find some way of maintaining a list that would be strong continually. That is and was my point. I've not in past or present got a sense in what we have and doing as a club, have any real plan of that type.
It is abundantly clear to me and has for sometime that it is not easy task and a challenge. But I would like to see some sense of plan that club had or has but in looking at the overall look of what goes on I don't see any big paradigm shift to make me think, geez, we've finally woken and got a plan that has learnt from mistakes in past.
I think the most obvious thing any club should get in any plan of list management is that the only clear cut way to get the bulk of your stars going forward is to find some way to manage to get hold of very early draft picks regardless of where you are on ladder at any point in time.. By early picks I don't just mean first rounders that some posters seem to get fixated on. Every club gets first round picks but not every club can get the ones very early. I mean picks basically 1 to 4 where you are far more likely to find the serious game changers that premiership teams have that are champions. Getting lots of picks in between 10 and 20 is not the same as getting your hands on the less than handful of true guns that come up from every batch of new draftees. The second tier players also play there role in a good team but the reality remains to develop and maintain premiership level like lists you got to find some way of getting very early picks every few years and we just don't seem to have shown at any stage that plan is part of club thinking. That does not mean all of our thinking is stuffed but it shows to me, we just not really got an overall plan in place for list management that makes me sit up and take notice.
Don't for one minute read that as me thinking I have all the answers because I don't. I just see the club has seemed to have even less idea which has troubled me for some time how bad we seem at it. That does not mean I think every trade, list decision and draft choice is wrong because that I never said also. People that have tried to make out that I am specifically having a go at any particular recruiter have missed the overall point. Anyway, I decided one big last post on this topic so some misconstrued ideas and comments not wasted my time answering on several posts. There were some silly responses that were not even close to being in touch with what I meant and just completely on attack mode rather than thinking mode so did not even bother with.
Only responded to this post as the tone of your post was not attacking and therefore worth a reply. You misunderstood my overall point but least I could see you made a genuine attempt to want to understand rather than get defensive and insular. Other responses from long term posters that was the vibe I was sensing and less than impressed with hearing that from Carlton supporters I expect more from.
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