Opinion 2015 Adjustments / Improvements / Development

Oct 25, 2002
2,160
2,522
Roleystone
AFL Club
Fremantle
A lot of our prognosticating reflects what we as supporters see as the ultimate motivation. Do the FFC try to trade and draft for a chance at a serioous flag tilt whilst we still have Sandi and Pav or do they do what is best for longer term sustained success knowing that to be flag chance you need to finish top four then rely on a certain amount of luck.

I think free agency allows them to have an each way bet. Throw some money out there but not draft picks/players. Best thing we have ever done was getting Ross Lyon. It cost short term negative publicity and dollars.

I have an inkling long term sustained success is more important to the club as an organisation than throwing all the eggs in one basket. It is not so exciting for us as supporters but they are ultimately doing it for our own good. I see the upcoming draft and trading period as somewhat dull. Ross Lyon has two monkeys on his back, lack of a premiership and the percieved way St Kildas list was left. From a business perspective and as a career coach I think Ross can control how our list is developed with more certainty than risk going all out for a flag. SO I imagine we will do what is best for the long term for sustained success with the hope that through that the stars will align.
 

Mr Peabody

Club Legend
Sep 3, 2014
1,593
3,691
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
Do the FFC try to trade and draft for a chance at a serioous flag tilt whilst we still have Sandi and Pav or do they do what is best for longer term sustained success..I have an inkling long term sustained success is more important to the club as an organisation than throwing all the eggs in one basket. I see the upcoming draft and trading period as somewhat dull.

They can do both. Plenty of young talent already coming through (e.g Neale, Sutty, Croz) and developing underneath (Tabs, Shero, Duffy, Ballard, Grey, A.Pearce). Keep developing the list but now's the time to address the weaknesses to give us the push we need to success in the near term.

I hope that Brad Lloyd organizing pre-trade week informal chats amongst 16 of the 18 clubs is a sign of what is to come from us. Fill the holes and be prepared to horse trade value.
 

Mr Peabody

Club Legend
Sep 3, 2014
1,593
3,691
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
Do the FFC try to trade and draft for a chance at a serioous flag tilt whilst we still have Sandi and Pav or do they do what is best for longer term sustained success..I have an inkling long term sustained success is more important to the club as an organisation than throwing all the eggs in one basket. I see the upcoming draft and trading period as somewhat dull.

They can do both. Plenty of young talent already coming through (e.g Neale, Sutty, Croz) and developing underneath (Tabs, Shero, Duffy, Ballard, Grey, A.Pearce). Keep developing the list but now's the time to address the weaknesses to give us the push we need to success in the near term.

I hope that Brad Lloyd organizing pre-trade week informal chats amongst 16 of the 18 clubs is a sign of what is to come from us. Fill the holes and be prepared to horse trade value.
 

manpurple

Club Legend
Dec 5, 2012
1,722
1,322
AFL Club
Fremantle
A lot of our prognosticating reflects what we as supporters see as the ultimate motivation. Do the FFC try to trade and draft for a chance at a serioous flag tilt whilst we still have Sandi and Pav or do they do what is best for longer term sustained success knowing that to be flag chance you need to finish top four then rely on a certain amount of luck.

I think free agency allows them to have an each way bet. Throw some money out there but not draft picks/players. Best thing we have ever done was getting Ross Lyon. It cost short term negative publicity and dollars.

I have an inkling long term sustained success is more important to the club as an organisation than throwing all the eggs in one basket. It is not so exciting for us as supporters but they are ultimately doing it for our own good. I see the upcoming draft and trading period as somewhat dull. Ross Lyon has two monkeys on his back, lack of a premiership and the percieved way St Kildas list was left. From a business perspective and as a career coach I think Ross can control how our list is developed with more certainty than risk going all out for a flag. SO I imagine we will do what is best for the long term for sustained success with the hope that through that the stars will align.

Ross has at least two more years on his contract and with a top four finish to the season he is safe. That being said some of my docker friends are p****d that we didn't beat port having lead by 5 goals in the third. If Ross has a big say in the list he would know that there is an expectation to deliver a GF appearance in the next two years and he would draft/trade/FA accordingly.

Bond and Lloyd, however, are in charge of our list. This means that RTB gets to ask for things but he doesn't control getting them. This was his problem at StKilda as the people in charge of recruitment there sucked.

For my part I think that I have almost more confidence in the Bond & Lloyd partnership than in RTB, and I have a lot of confidence in Ross. My confidence is based on their ability to get the 08 and 11 drafts massively right with useful contributors in 09 (Fyfe) and 10 (Gu). I think that there is a bit of quality that is coming out of the 12 and 13 drafts also. But they have a different cycle to RTB.
They are less interested in the immediate and more on the long term prospects of the club and I expect them to push the end of year recruitment in that direction. This year looks good for picks consequently I expect us to keep our picks through to round 3. But there is a glut of talent and someone will go.
Consequently I would back them to FA/trade in 1 or two players and draft 2-3 players. I don't expect them to trade our first round pick and I do expect an out of left field FA/trade if we don't get the big name ala Dawson, D Pearce.
 
Oct 25, 2002
2,160
2,522
Roleystone
AFL Club
Fremantle
The weird one for me was trading Broughton out. I could see the point if we were paid overs for a player whose void we could fill but we were paid unders. Oddball idea but I would like to get him back for cheap.
 
Apr 5, 2009
2,951
1,717
AFL Club
Fremantle
I have an inkling long term sustained success is more important to the club as an organisation than throwing all the eggs in one basket. It is not so exciting for us as supporters but they are ultimately doing it for our own good. I see the upcoming draft and trading period as somewhat dull. Ross Lyon has two monkeys on his back, lack of a premiership and the percieved way St Kildas list was left. From a business perspective and as a career coach I think Ross can control how our list is developed with more certainty than risk going all out for a flag. SO I imagine we will do what is best for the long term for sustained success with the hope that through that the stars will align.

I think with the extra expansion teams added, targetting sustained success is the only option nowadays. The critical part is talent identification/drafting and therefore having the most astute people possible involved in the process. We are doing a far better job than the early days so long may it last.
 

jusjoshin

Club Legend
Oct 22, 2008
2,483
2,103
Gosnells
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Perth Scorchers, East Side Hawks
The weird one for me was trading Broughton out. I could see the point if we were paid overs for a player whose void we could fill but we were paid unders. Oddball idea but I would like to get him back for cheap.

I thought that trade was more about freeing up cap space to make a play at a KPP. Trade out Broughton on 300K + a year, bring in a 18yo kid on 100K- a year and have an extra 200K+ a year to front load a contract for a big name.
 

blue shark

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 15, 2009
5,452
4,851
perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
Our recruiting team I would grade with a B mark, this could change if Simpson is gone next year, losing Pitt then Simpson hurts.
We seem to have great success with the rookie draft, and later picks in the main draft.
Free agency has failed so far, hoping we can utilise this better for 2015, no we need to make this a win.
 
Sep 14, 2014
99
36
I'm not certain our recruiting is all that great. Our first rounders should be the easiest, and as a whole other than hill, we have been underwhelming to date..... When are we going to pick a gun with our first round... Hill is the closest we have gotten in the last 10 years.
 

Kunna17

Club Legend
Oct 9, 2012
2,047
668
AFL Club
Fremantle
I'm not certain our recruiting is all that great. Our first rounders should be the easiest, and as a whole other than hill, we have been underwhelming to date..... When are we going to pick a gun with our first round... Hill is the closest we have gotten in the last 10 years.
have faith in Mora :)
 

Quant

Rookie
Sep 14, 2014
49
24
AFL Club
Fremantle
I think the GF just proved Ross is still the 2nd best coach in the league.

On paper Sydney team is greater than ours but got smashed by a older, slower hawks team!! Our GF loss doesn't feel as bad now imo.

However it's concerning if the hawks don't drop off next year and we come across them because the defensive plan doesn't hold up. Sydney no1 defensive team well got absolutely smashed.

I believe Ross still needs to continue tinkering with game plan.
 

Spoken4

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 10, 2010
7,815
5,432
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
South Fremantle & Peel Thunder
I think the GF just proved Ross is still the 2nd best coach in the league.

On paper Sydney team is greater than ours but got smashed by a older, slower hawks team!! Our GF loss doesn't feel as bad now imo.

However it's concerning if the hawks don't drop off next year and we come across them because the defensive plan doesn't hold up. Sydney no1 defensive team well got absolutely smashed.

I believe Ross still needs to continue tinkering with game plan.

If we continue with the game plan that we adopted post the Geelong game that we lost with a kick on goal after the siren, we will be fine for 2015. Perfect balance of attacking and defending.
 
Sep 11, 2008
12,339
9,133
Adelaide
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Man Utd
I don't really think our problem is a personnel issue.

- Our clearance tactics need a major over haul.
- Our goal kicking accuracy needs to improve.
- Our forwards need to be able to score goals, if they don't drop them. (Mayne, Clarke)
- We need to back our mids to beat the opposition mids. Drop Crowley.

Drop Crowley, De boer, suban. Replace them players like Sheridan, simpson, morobito and duffy. Run more people through the midfield.

Ideally 11 plus people would run through the middle.
 

Kunna17

Club Legend
Oct 9, 2012
2,047
668
AFL Club
Fremantle
Drop Crowley, De boer, suban. Replace them players like Sheridan, simpson, morobito and duffy. Run more people through the midfield.

Ideally 11 plus people would run through the middle.
I rekon if you are not a KPP you should at least be capable of running through the middle.
Maybe 1 lock-down defender and 1 small forward can be specialists.
 

malpaso

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 30, 2004
8,973
7,622
Melbourne
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Chicago Bulls, Kansas City Royals
More attacking players and a tagger that gets more ball
Yep exactly, we need more 'one-touch' players. We have too many that fumble, get kicks smothered, choose the wrong option or handball gets knocked down. The other thing is that I believe our players fold on the ball carrier too much leaving outside runners to get away.
 

freoextra

Norm Smith Medallist
Mar 2, 2008
5,161
7,275
Perth
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Fremantle
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Perth Football Club
Mitchell went OK yesterday without a Crowley type hanging of his coat tails.
The underestimating of Crowleys influence is mind boggling

I was thinking the same thing, how quickly some have turned. Crowley's main task has always been to control a major threat in the opposition, something he has done successfully again this year. I cannot think of many occasions that his player has had a major impact on us. He may not have been as effective as the previous year (best in the league) but he was still very good.

Put yourself in the oppositions mind, I am sure as hell that when Crowley approached them at the start of the game that they didn't think yippee I have got that old hack on me, more likely oh sh1t I gonna have a mongrel of a day with that bastard hanging off me. I especially remember that look whenever Crowley went to Johnson, he used to lose it almost instantly!!!!!
 

Quant

Rookie
Sep 14, 2014
49
24
AFL Club
Fremantle
Depends which Crowley turns up, if its the from the previous season he has a spot in the team. He is getting older and given his game is heavily based on his fitness will be an interesting season. Wonder if he can do a Kane Cornes?
 

freoextra

Norm Smith Medallist
Mar 2, 2008
5,161
7,275
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Perth Football Club
Depends which Crowley turns up, if its the from the previous season he has a spot in the team. He is getting older and given his game is heavily based on his fitness will be an interesting season. Wonder if he can do a Kane Cornes?

You got to be smart, no use putting him on Hill, Jetta but he does a great job on Boak, Johnson, Mitchell types.
 
Apr 16, 2014
10,369
23,286
AFL Club
Fremantle
Mitchell went OK yesterday without a Crowley type hanging of his coat tails.
The underestimating of Crowleys influence is mind boggling

I was thinking the same thing, how quickly some have turned. Crowley's main task has always been to control a major threat in the opposition, something he has done successfully again this year. I cannot think of many occasions that his player has had a major impact on us. He may not have been as effective as the previous year (best in the league) but he was still very good.

Put yourself in the oppositions mind, I am sure as hell that when Crowley approached them at the start of the game that they didn't think yippee I have got that old hack on me, more likely oh sh1t I gonna have a mongrel of a day with that bastard hanging off me. I especially remember that look whenever Crowley went to Johnson, he used to lose it almost instantly!!!!!


Do you guys think our clearances are an issue?
Against the best midfield outfits in the comp taking out their best player doesn't mean much because they have 3-4 other mids that are just as damaging. They lose one we lose one, where's the gain. Against weaker teams it's a very effective tactic because they might only have 1 damaging player.

Why are people singling out Crowley?
He stuck out like a sore thumb in the Port game, unfortunately that's the last impression we have of him in 2014.
He's on the wrong side of 30.
I think we have enough midfield talent to take on the best without a tagger.
 
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