Opinion 2015 Adjustments / Improvements / Development

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Tazmania said:
Two very different things though. Two pages of discussion here versus 320+ on there. :p

To be fair though, the Fremantle game started turning from being very defensive focussed to more attacking and one of things that really is part of Fremantle's defence is the tagger role. If we're changing the tactics then shouldn't this role be discussed as it has been?

No-one is saying bad things about Crowley, I'm sure we all love him, just that his role may be becoming redundant in a changing Fremantle. Change is inevitable as tactics change.
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I guess i look at it differently. The more attacking we become, the more important it is to shut down the opposition main distributor so it doesn't hurt us on the way back.
 
UFO Tatsu said:
I guess i look at it differently. The more attacking we become, the more important it is to shut down the opposition main distributor so it doesn't hurt us on the way back.
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Which is a perfectly valid opinion....again hope we as a board can discuss this in terms of the role and not the person doing it. Unlike the west coast board.

On your point though doesn't a lot of the return play making come from the half backs who are not the fellows that Crowley tags? This is deBoers and Maynes role.
 
I thought a whole lot of others let down Crowley in the finals loss to Port. Holding Boak to no kicks in the first half while watching many of his team mates butcher the fruits of such efforts must have been gut wrenching. i know I was spewing....
 

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Tazmania said:
Which is a perfectly valid opinion....again hope we as a board can discuss this in terms of the role and not the person doing it. Unlike the west coast board.

On your point though doesn't a lot of the return play making come from the half backs who are not the fellows that Crowley tags? This is deBoers and Maynes role.
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I guess I was referring to negating players in general but saying that, if it does go the other way, I would prefer Crowley to be on Stevie J rather than not :)
 
UFO Tatsu said:
I guess i look at it differently. The more attacking we become, the more important it is to shut down the opposition main distributor so it doesn't hurt us on the way back.
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I'm not disputing the effectiveness of taggers, I just wonder what makes Crowley the only person on our list capable of playing that role.
 
Tazmania said:
Fair enough. I think something needs to change at Fremantle and seems to be based on the last few rounds. Be interesting to see what rtb does next year.
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Ageing will do the changing for us.

Crowley is what 31/32? He'll slow down soon and change will necessitate, no matter how much Ross loves the guy.

Macca is retiring or highly speculated to be.

We have young players (Crozier/Duffy/C.Pearce/Neale/Sutty) who have talent (and can play in roles where the team is suspect) and are entering into a phase of football life where consistent performances can be expected.

The team dynamics will change. Don't worry.

I'd like to see us be aggressive next year with the team selection. eg., Crozier takes the tagging role from Crowley or similar. Something left field.I feel this is what has given Hawthorn so many advantages with their player development (see: 22yo. Will Langford). Giving players responsibility, perhaps beyond what is traditional in footy development, and giving them room to blossom.
 
UFO Tatsu said:
I guess I was referring to negating players in general but saying that, if it does go the other way, I would prefer Crowley to be on Stevie J rather than not :)
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Yeah there are absolutely players who need to be (and can effectively be) locked down on. Stevie J is the main example, Griffin is another prime candidate. Like Hill for us, if you shut them down it's absolutely massive and their team suffers for it.

The problem is when you run into a team like Port, or Sydney or the Hawks; you have 3-4 guys in each of those midfields who can hurt you equally. In these circumstances I wonder if it is productive to dedicate one of our midfielders to a lock down role and nothing else? Does keeping Boak's kicking down offset being half a man down at each bounce?

When we have Mzungu and (maybe) DeBoer generally playing a bit of a run with and run off role already. In some games you might be better with just Mzungu playing HHF and taking, say, a Malceski out of the game.
 
Tazmania said:
Fair enough. I think something needs to change at Fremantle and seems to be based on the last few rounds. Be interesting to see what rtb does next year.
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Last few rounds - Johnno, McPharlin, Ballantyne and Fyfe were all out or playing injured. Barlow had a broken thumb. Any side's form is going to dip with those injuries and suspensions.
 
Really left-field though and not a likely one: But with the Crozier playing langford's role idea?
How about Duffy doing this same thing? He's a limited possession high damage type player so if he could do this role for us and get ~15 possessions (Hopefully more - but to start with I'll say 15) then he could definitely have a great impact on the game.
 
pokerspiv said:
I'm not disputing the effectiveness of taggers, I just wonder what makes Crowley the only person on our list capable of playing that role.
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i think the only other player with same combination of strength, stamina and discipline would be mzungu but IMO crowley has the ability to get into opposition player's (and supporters) mindset
 
salim malik said:
No idea what irony means Clay?
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Everything should be up for debate.

Aside from a few key players there are no golden passes for roles and history counts for nothing.

A four year hatefest by the Eagles is not the same as questioning whether Crowley is the best for his role, or whether his role in the team should even exist.
 

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UFO Tatsu said:
i think the only other player with same combination of strength, stamina and discipline would be mzungu but IMO crowley has the ability to get into opposition player's (and supporters) mindset
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Except the umpires seem to be getting in his.

If he's going to be deliberately targeted by the umps next year as he was in games last year, he may be useless as a tagger.
 
UFO Tatsu said:
I guess i look at it differently. The more attacking we become, the more important it is to shut down the opposition main distributor so it doesn't hurt us on the way back.
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Wouldn't it be great though if someone like Morabito replaced Crowley as a permanent mid and if for example Stevie J is tearing us apart we can send him to him?

Personally I think the time Crowley is least effective for us is in the last quarter of a game that we are trying to come from behind and win. There have been quite a few games this year where that happened and we always struggled to get up. I know you can't plan to be behind at 3qt but I see his role as a potential wildcard that we currently lack.

Really, I think that we have a number of mids that would be ahead of Crowley if they both played a purely offensive role and I would like to see them develop a tagging mindset when needed.
 
If Crowley cannot lift his offensive output next season ( highly unlikely due too his age but not impossible) then we can no longer continue playing him. Hawthorns midfield shows the importance of having every single midfielder being able to impact the game both ways
 
clogged said:
If people think that Freo can go all the way in 2015 with what is essentially the same team that has been fielded since late 2012 then they are going to be very disappointed.
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Not necessarily. Along with having the personnel, getting to the GF and subsequently winning it has a bit to do with things going your way i.e. good run with injuries, suspensions etc.

Freo could of easily made it this year. I hate using injuries as an excuse but it would of been handy having Johnson, Ballas, McPharlin in the finals and Walters ALL year.
 
Most teams, including the top 3-4 teams don't really use a hardline tagger and depend on him each week to shut somebody out, I just don't think we should depend on it as a necessity each week. If it was so badly needed - lets see how many teams are clambering over Clint Jones's services now that he's a delisted free agent. Same age as Crowley and was about as revered as him too under RTB's watch.
 
If all of you are after a quality tagger with a decent offensive game look no further than Taylor Hunt who is likely to leave the Cattery
 
beetz said:
Not necessarily. Along with having the personnel, getting to the GF and subsequently winning it has a bit to do with things going your way i.e. good run with injuries, suspensions etc.

Freo could of easily made it this year. I hate using injuries as an excuse but it would of been handy having Johnson, Ballas, McPharlin in the finals and Walters ALL year.
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What exactly are you on at the moment?

I'm sorry, but easily? we were beaten in straight sets!
 
Nickos66 said:
Most teams, including the top 3-4 teams don't really use a hardline tagger and depend on him each week to shut somebody out, I just don't think we should depend on it as a necessity each week. If it was so badly needed - lets see how many teams are clambering over Clint Jones's services now that he's a delisted free agent. Same age as Crowley and was about as revered as him too under RTB's watch.
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Exactly, I think that there are enough talented players on our list that should be forcing their way into the 22 that players like Crowley, Suban Mdb etc. should not play all year next year.
 
Nickos66 said:
It's certainly not a discussion without some merit - if we're to back ourselves as a top team.
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Well I think it is the right discussion. Because if it isn't, the discussion becomes about what a failure our first 3 picks in 2011 were. Crozier and Sheridan will be in their 4th year next year and are showing all the right signs in the WAFL etc. They just need to take the next step.
 
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