Unofficial Preview 2015 AFL draft thread - needs, wants, prospect discussion, the whole nine yards - all in here

Bremner20

Club Legend
Sep 16, 2012
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Hawthorn
To those concerned about our selections, I do understand where you are coming from. After all, I considered last night's picks as being imperative as to where our club will be in 5 years time. I must admit, I thought we'd play it safe as we had 2 low picks for the first time in eons, but the club recognised we were on the brink on losing legends such as Hodge and Mitchell, and you can't replace them with good players. To stay on top of the heap, we need to recruit superstars. For Hodgey, that means a number 1 pick, for Mitchell, it means identifying obscure talent with huge upside.

Thus, the Hibberds and Collins of this world went elsewhere and we rolled the dice. Were we too risky for low picks? There's the argument. But we've been doing this for a while so it shouldn't come as too much of a surprise and it really is hit and miss. For example:
  • We know you're recovering from a car accident and even worse, your first name is Beau, but you could be a superstar. So we're gonna take a chance on you.
  • You have all the skills to make you a top 3 pick Dayle, but alas there is baggage that has dropped you to our 2nd pick. But we think you could be a superstar so we're going for it.
  • You're a bit wayward and you're rumoured to have a big 'go home' factor about you. Even worse, you want everyone to call you Buddy, which doesn't help you appear mature. However, you can be a bit freakish and we think you could be a superstar. Who, knows, you could be the next player to kick 100 goals in a season, so we're gonna take a chance on you.
  • You have the worst interviewing technique and you even appear disinterested in proceedings at times, but you have the nous and skill, and the pedigree of being the nephew of Maurice Rioli and Michael Long, so we're giving you a shot.
Yeah, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I'm convinced we had to take a chance with Burton as he could be a superstar. We appear to have identified Lovell as a future Mitchell and were that keen that we weren't prepared to risk him for our third pick.

In short, we selected risky because if it comes off, we're premiership contenders again in a few years. If not, then sure, we're fubar. But Hibberd and Collins would have barely kept us hovering around the top 4 and we soon might have found ourselves losing elimination finals. That's where my thinking takes me. Our draft picks were worth the gamble in my humble opinion.
Hear what you are saying ,seems to be a pattern over the recent years that our recruiters don't rate the draft outside the top 10-15 take a lot of risks rather than going with popular opinion amongst the experts at the time. Perfect example ...Beau Muston was touted as being the next Chris Judd before he broke his leg we took a punt on him too.
 
Just reading a bit more about our picks - apparently all of them genuine 'footballers' as opposed to athletes. We already have a surplus of athletic players (thankfully some of our athletes are brilliant footballers also - i.e. Smith) so drafting in some genuine players is a good move.

Also seeing in a lot of places about the footy IQ of Lovell. When Mitchell, Hodge and Burgoyne all move on, with Lewis and Roughead not too many years after them - we lose a lot more than just talent. We are losing a lot of leadership - and in Mitchell someone who can read the game better than almost anyone currently playing. I am sure that these blokes, and likely our picks in the coming couple of drafts, will be picked to fill positions both on the field and within the club as a whole as on-field leaders.
 

Oooh Cyril

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Not getting Collins at 22 will prove to be a huge mistake, Brian Lake arrives and we win the next 3....just a coinincidence???
Now we have Gibson and Frawley as our key backs . What happens if one gets injured and/or Gibbo retires eventually?
Who are the backups? Heatherly (not really key back) and Brand (hope his shoulder comes good because he injured it very innocuously)
I would be far more comfortable with Collins developing......true key backs are a far rarer commodity than mids
Should have got Collins at 22 and the best available mid at 44
 
Oct 3, 2006
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Not getting Collins at 22 will prove to be a huge mistake, Brian Lake arrives and we win the next 3....just a coinincidence???
Now we have Gibson and Frawley as our key backs . What happens if one gets injured and/or Gibbo retires eventually?
Who are the backups? Heatherly (not really key back) and Brand (hope his shoulder comes good because he injured it very innocuously)
I would be far more comfortable with Collins developing......true key backs are a far rarer commodity than mids
Should have got Collins at 22 and the best available mid at 44


Collins did seem an obvious choice but i trust Wrighty's judgement here
 

Main Man

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Not getting Collins at 22 will prove to be a huge mistake, Brian Lake arrives and we win the next 3....just a coinincidence???
Now we have Gibson and Frawley as our key backs . What happens if one gets injured and/or Gibbo retires eventually?
Who are the backups? Heatherly (not really key back) and Brand (hope his shoulder comes good because he injured it very innocuously)
I would be far more comfortable with Collins developing......true key backs are a far rarer commodity than mids
Should have got Collins at 22 and the best available mid at 44

Why did we need a slow FB when we already have Frawley who will be on the list for at least the next 5 years? Not what I would call a priority to replace.

Our key defenders in the last 3 premierships.

2013 -Lake/Gibson
2014 - Lake/Spangher
2015 - Lake/Frawley

Please explain to me why we needed to recruit a slow full back? Frawley toyed with two of the best key forwards in the comp in the finals, Gibson and Spangher still on the list? With young players such as Brand and Heatherly coming through.

Lake was a rare FB in that he was an elite reader of the ball in the air which allowed him to mark the ball and turn it into attack, Collins is not on that level and likely never will be, for me he was a slow full back who was just more mature than his opponents in the juniors.

If Brand had of not injured himself last year he would very much have been ready to step into fill any void left in defense and is at this stage a more advanced prospect than what Collins would be.
 

Main Man

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Collins did seem an obvious choice but i trust Wrighty's judgement here

Why?

We won two premierships with 1 full back in Lake.

We won one with both Lake and Frawley but there were big question marks on whether we could fit both in during the year.

Why do we need to replace Lake who was a rare FB who for large periods of the year lacked match ups?

This talk of Collins being the obvious is nonsensical for mine.
 

mikeder

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Not getting Collins at 22 will prove to be a huge mistake, Brian Lake arrives and we win the next 3....just a coinincidence???
Now we have Gibson and Frawley as our key backs . What happens if one gets injured and/or Gibbo retires eventually?
Who are the backups? Heatherly (not really key back) and Brand (hope his shoulder comes good because he injured it very innocuously)
I would be far more comfortable with Collins developing......true key backs are a far rarer commodity than mids
Should have got Collins at 22 and the best available mid at 44
Couldn't have put it better myself "Oooh Cyril", very well put! I still can't believe that the Hawks didn't pick up Collins when they had the chance. Brian's gone and one to replace him, it doesn't add up to me ?! Sure we do have Spangs to come back into the side on a regular basis and do his usual great job in defence, but we do need a grunter back there to tame the Gorilla's. If the great training/medical staff at Hawthorn can do with Spangs what they did with Cyril before this last season where he didn't miss a game through basically hamstring injury, then that should suffice for now, because and injury to either Chip or Gibbo will certainly put us behind the eight ball, but as you said "OC" there is also Brand in the mix if his shoulder heals well. But these are if scenarios, whereas if we had picked up Collins it would have been a more certain scenario.
 

becalm

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Apr 22, 2014
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Why did we need a slow FB when we already have Frawley who will be on the list for at least the next 5 years? Not what I would call a priority to replace.

Our key defenders in the last 3 premierships.

2013 -Lake/Gibson
2014 - Lake/Spangher
2015 - Lake/Frawley

Please explain to me why we needed to recruit a slow full back? Frawley toyed with two of the best key forwards in the comp in the finals, Gibson and Spangher still on the list? With young players such as Brand and Heatherly coming through.

Lake was a rare FB in that he was an elite reader of the ball in the air which allowed him to mark the ball and turn it into attack, Collins is not on that level and likely never will be, for me he was a slow full back who was just more mature than his opponents in the juniors.

If Brand had of not injured himself last year he would very much have been ready to step into fill any void left in defense and is at this stage a more advanced prospect than what Collins would be.
Totally agree. People wanted to select Collins who in their mind was going to be another Lake. It will be interesting to see who becomes the better player, Brand or Collins.
 
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Main Man

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Couldn't have put it better myself "Oooh Cyril", very well put! I still can't believe that the Hawks didn't pick up Collins when they had the chance. Brian's gone and one to replace him, it doesn't add up to me ?! Sure we do have Spangs to come back into the side on a regular basis and do his usual great job in defence, but we do need a grunter back there to tame the Gorilla's. If the great training/medical staff at Hawthorn can do with Spangs what they did with Cyril before this last season where he didn't miss a game through basically hamstring injury, then that should suffice for now, because and injury to either Chip or Gibbo will certainly put us behind the eight ball, but as you said "OC" there is also Brand in the mix if his shoulder heals well. But these are if scenarios, whereas if we had picked up Collins it would have been a more certain scenario.

So we are going to recruit a bloke in case of some injuries when we already have two players on the list in Brand and Heatherly who are further advanced?

Do you actually think the club would have let him slip if they thought recruiting a slow FB was a priority?

Many on here quick to forget that we struggled to fit Lake and Frawley in the same back line when they played together last year and Lake was a freak FB who could turn attack into defense with his marking.
 

Simon_Nesbit

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Sep 26, 2001
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Editor's Note:

Based upon how different my thoughts on lovell were to it seems everyone else, I reviewed his draft tracker profile.

The 5 minute highlights presents a vastly different player than the 14 minut youtube (drawn entirely from the NT game).

I now feel far more confident in his ability (specifically vision and space management in packs).

This also shows why we shouldn't rely on a few minutes of footage in rating a player (I will continue to do so however - Oliver is going to be a star!)
 

sherrif

Premiership Player
Dec 7, 2012
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If any regular Box Hill watcher could provide a summary of Sam Collins (who we drafted) it would be hugely appreciated. His highlights look really good. Seems mobile and a fantastic mark.
 

Alsmypal

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Collins was never coming. If we felt we lacked in this area I'm sure Lake would have played on. That being said I'm very happy with our picks. I'm glad to see Collins and Dunkley landing at the dogs as well. Good drafting by both clubs. Lovell one out of the box however I trust in our great club that know more than what we do.
 

Prudster

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Not getting Collins at 22 will prove to be a huge mistake, Brian Lake arrives and we win the next 3....just a coinincidence???
Now we have Gibson and Frawley as our key backs . What happens if one gets injured and/or Gibbo retires eventually?
Who are the backups? Heatherly (not really key back) and Brand (hope his shoulder comes good because he injured it very innocuously)
I would be far more comfortable with Collins developing......true key backs are a far rarer commodity than mids
Should have got Collins at 22 and the best available mid at 44

You know what though, the last guy we said this about just got delisted by Carlton. Developed KPD's can often be overrated when they're drafted, simply because they succeed at U18 level because they're bigger than everyone else, not because they have skills and ability that transfer to AFL level. I'm not saying this is the case with Collins, but if Wright didn't draft him, i'd say there was a bloody good reason for it.

The other thing is that it's unlikely Collins would have been ready for a few years. We would still need someone to fill in until he is ready, especially if we're expecting him to play on the gorilla KPF's like Cloke, Hawkins, etc. Collins is nowhere near ready being able to play on them week in week out.

Finally, Lake helping us find success was not just because he was a big KPD like Collins. The reason he helped us succeed is because he's one of the best KPD's of the last decade, great at reading the play, marking, and stopping his opponent. His weaknesses (lack of pace, average disposal) are hidden by his fantastic reading of the play and Hawthorn's kicking ability around him.

In Wrighty we trust.
 

Roughies Boys

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Not getting Collins at 22 will prove to be a huge mistake, Brian Lake arrives and we win the next 3....just a coinincidence???
Now we have Gibson and Frawley as our key backs . What happens if one gets injured and/or Gibbo retires eventually?
Who are the backups? Heatherly (not really key back) and Brand (hope his shoulder comes good because he injured it very innocuously)
I would be far more comfortable with Collins developing......true key backs are a far rarer commodity than mids
Should have got Collins at 22 and the best available mid at 44
Agree to disagree... Collins slid, Hawks would have got him if he was as good as what people were saying. Kaiden Brand says hi, show some faith, our backline isn't a massive probably.
 
Oct 17, 2006
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I think we have 1 pick in the pre season draft + 1 rookie and Woodward.

Alternatively we can go down the route of 2 new rookies + woody.

Any stand out players who missed out on selection? Any remaining Langfords hiding and eligible?
 

HawksILove

Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 4, 2007
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I think we have 1 pick in the pre season draft + 1 rookie and Woodward.

Alternatively we can go down the route of 2 new rookies + woody.

Any stand out players who missed out on selection? Any remaining Langfords hiding and eligible?


Thanks

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-11-25/ten-to-watch-in-the-nab-afl-rookie-draft


Jesse Glass-McCaskerTall defender
196cm/95kg
3/1/97
Swan Districts



The West Australian tall defender will be a good chance to find an AFL home on Friday with clubs likely to be looking to add a key backman. Glass-McCasker is athletic, pretty quick and can shut down on opponents, and is reliable in one-on-one battles. At 196cm and 95kg he should be able to come in and play a role soon.
 
I think we have 1 pick in the pre season draft + 1 rookie and Woodward.

Alternatively we can go down the route of 2 new rookies + woody.

Any stand out players who missed out on selection? Any remaining Langfords hiding and eligible?

I like this guy

Thomas Glen

Dandenong Stingrays/Beaconsfield
7/5/1997
Height: 187cm
Weight: 72kg

Versatile medium midfielder who can also play as a rebounding defender. Has good speed and uses the ball extremely well by hand and foot. Represented Vic Country at this year's NAB AFL Under-18 Championships showing his ability to read the play well and make good decisions under pressure. Had excellent year with the Stingrays, averaging 19 possessions at an impressive 77 percent efficiency.

Combine results
20m sprint - 2.90 (Top 5)
30m repeat sprints (Top 4)
Kicking Test - 22 (Top 4)
 

Slick

Club Legend
Oct 5, 2004
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So what part don't you agree with ? Is Lake still playing ? So don't worry about replacing him ? Best young KD in the draft available but we don't need him ? What am I missing a 173 cm mid is he that good ?

I don't agree with the whole thing mate. Graeme Wright is top 2-3 in the AFL at what he does and your some bloke sitting behind a computer (like the rest of us). So many people complained about picking up Dan Howe last year, he looks the goods, others have had no idea who Paul Puopolo or Ben Stratton were and now they're triple premiership players.

How is bringing in Collins going to be any different or better than investing in Kaden Brand? Spangher can come in and pinch hit down back if opposition has a taller forward line, if not I'll back in Chip and Gibbo.

Nothing wrong with having small mids, pretty sure Crawf was sub 180, same with Mitch and Cyril. They go alright. Just don't throw the baby out with the bath water before you've seen what these kids can do.
 

Coathanger

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Not getting Collins at 22 will prove to be a huge mistake, Brian Lake arrives and we win the next 3....just a coinincidence???
Now we have Gibson and Frawley as our key backs . What happens if one gets injured and/or Gibbo retires eventually?
Who are the backups? Heatherly (not really key back) and Brand (hope his shoulder comes good because he injured it very innocuously)
I would be far more comfortable with Collins developing......true key backs are a far rarer commodity than mids
Should have got Collins at 22 and the best available mid at 44
I think you just shot yourself in the foot there. Is there a common link between Lake,Gibbo & Chip? Yep we just went out and got them. No development required!
 
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