List Mgmt. 2015 Best 22 - Rolling thread

hurlygurdy

Premiership Player
Apr 15, 2013
3,277
1,960
AFL Club
Essendon
To create space you dont have to be tall or have massive endurance. Its more smarts. Id back others in before Ambrose with that.

I think by taking Ambrose out of the forward line we still arent seen as being small up front.
All the way through 2014 people were questioning his place in the team. Looking back, when he was in the side we had 11 wins/5 losses, but for the 7 games that he missed we had 2 wins/5 losses. When he wasn't in the team we really struggled to kick a decent score other than against Carlton. TRB said that he played a team role to great effect and the win loss ratio seems to support that. Describe his role anyway you like, but the stats are unlikely to be coincidental in my opinion.
In 2015 maybe we can get a functioning forward line that doesn't require an Ambrose? Time will tell.
 

hurlygurdy

Premiership Player
Apr 15, 2013
3,277
1,960
AFL Club
Essendon
B: Gwilt, Hooker, Baguley
HB: Hibberd, Hurley, Dempsey
C: Goddard, Watson, Stanton
HF: Winderlich, Carlisle, Colyer
F: Z. Merrett, Daniher, Chapman
R: Bellchambers, Heppell, Myers
I/C: Ambrose, Hocking, Zaharakis, Cooney
Fletcher is god. You seem to have forgotten this fact
 

hurlygurdy

Premiership Player
Apr 15, 2013
3,277
1,960
AFL Club
Essendon
Others can do the same and much more
I don't think the evidence on hand shows that at all. Agree to disagree like you said...
When Ambrose starts kicking 30 goals a year he'll be what we needed Crameri to be.
To be fair on Crameri, if Ambrose kicks 30 he will be pretty close to what Crameri actually was for the team (not counting when we shot ourselves in the foot by playing him as a stay at home forward)
I always fantasised about what Crameri could be in forward line like what we have now. He would have done exactly what Ambrose attempts, carving up and down the corridor. But he just had that extra leg of pace and cleaner hands. Mind you, Ambrose already has a better tank and work ethic
 
I don't think the evidence on hand shows that at all. Agree to disagree like you said...

To be fair on Crameri, if Ambrose kicks 30 he will be pretty close to what Crameri actually was for the team (not counting when we shot ourselves in the foot by playing him as a stay at home forward)
I always fantasised about what Crameri could be in forward line like what we have now. He would have done exactly what Ambrose attempts, carving up and down the corridor. But he just had that extra leg of pace and cleaner hands. Mind you, Ambrose already has a better tank and work ethic
Crameri is an undersized FF. He never had the tank or pressure skills Ambrose had. Crameri is superior in goal kicking ability and marking ability but was near useless when the ball hit the deck and struggled to play up the ground.
 
May 6, 2007
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Crameri is an undersized FF. He never had the tank or pressure skills Ambrose had. Crameri is superior in goal kicking ability and marking ability but was near useless when the ball hit the deck and struggled to play up the ground.

what?
 
Aug 15, 2011
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Crameri is way better at ground level then Ambrose.

Crameri also IIRC always was up the top end of running aswell, he not only has explosive speed but for his size he could run well in the endurance time trial types aswell - not Ambrose level but not poor.

He was just lazy when it came to defensive pressure.

He would be a jet 3rd tall forward with Carlisle and Daniher now. He continues to play that 3rd forward role well. He was also a great one out FF no doubts about that.
 
Crameri is way better at ground level then Ambrose.

Crameri also IIRC always was up the top end of running aswell, he not only has explosive speed but for his size he could run well in the endurance time trial types aswell - not Ambrose level but not poor.

He was just lazy when it came to defensive pressure.

He would be a jet 3rd tall forward with Carlisle and Daniher now. He continues to play that 3rd forward role well. He was also a great one out FF no doubts about that.
lolwat? Crameri is near useless when the ball hits the deck, never finished top 10 in the TT's, very lazy when it came to defensive pressure and was an okay undersized FF. If he was that good he'd be able to kick more than 30 goals a year and more than 1 goal/game against top 8 sides.
 
Aug 15, 2011
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Essendon
Other Teams
Port Adelaide
lolwat? Crameri is near useless when the ball hits the deck, never finished top 10 in the TT's, very lazy when it came to defensive pressure and was an okay undersized FF. If he was that good he'd be able to kick more than 30 goals a year and more than 1 goal/game against top 8 sides.
Hes top 10 at the dogs with ease.

Can you provide me with top 10 finishers when he was at the club.

Hes still way better at ground level compared to Ambrose.

Take off those red and black glasses. Crameri is a far superior footballer to Ambrose in every way except endurance in which Ambrose is a freak but thats all he really has and pressure.

How many did he kick for a s**t side last year playing further up the ground
 
Hes top 10 at the dogs with ease.

Can you provide me with top 10 finishers when he was at the club.

Hes still way better at ground level compared to Ambrose.

Take off those red and black glasses. Crameri is a far superior footballer to Ambrose in every way except endurance in which Ambrose is a freak but thats all he really has and pressure.

How many did he kick for a s**t side last year playing further up the ground
That says more about the dogs than it does about him. His endurance is poor, always has been.

Off the top of my head Stanton, Watson, O'Brien, Monfries, Prismall (when fit), Zaharakis, Melksham all had top 10 finishes in that period and I'm probably missing a few others who have been delisted over that time.

Re-read what I said. Which was that if Ambrose kicked 30 goals a year he'd be what we needed Crameri to be. Ambrose is far better at endurance, pressure in the forward 50 and ability below his knees, and Crameri a better overhead/contested mark and goal kicking.

How many did he kick against top 8 sides? I'll give you a hint, over the past 3 years he has 29 goals in 28 games against them.
 
That says more about the dogs than it does about him. His endurance is poor, always has been.

Off the top of my head Stanton, Watson, O'Brien, Monfries, Prismall (when fit), Zaharakis, Melksham all had top 10 finishes in that period and I'm probably missing a few others who have been delisted over that time.

Re-read what I said. Which was that if Ambrose kicked 30 goals a year he'd be what we needed Crameri to be. Ambrose is far better at endurance, pressure in the forward 50 and ability below his knees, and Crameri a better overhead/contested mark and goal kicking.

How many did he kick against top 8 sides? I'll give you a hint, over the past 3 years he has 29 goals in 28 games against them.
It's not really a hint if you give away the answer Eth ;)
 

hurlygurdy

Premiership Player
Apr 15, 2013
3,277
1,960
AFL Club
Essendon
That says more about the dogs than it does about him. His endurance is poor, always has been.

Off the top of my head Stanton, Watson, O'Brien, Monfries, Prismall (when fit), Zaharakis, Melksham all had top 10 finishes in that period and I'm probably missing a few others who have been delisted over that time.

Re-read what I said. Which was that if Ambrose kicked 30 goals a year he'd be what we needed Crameri to be. Ambrose is far better at endurance, pressure in the forward 50 and ability below his knees, and Crameri a better overhead/contested mark and goal kicking.

How many did he kick against top 8 sides? I'll give you a hint, over the past 3 years he has 29 goals in 28 games against them.
I completely disagree. Crameri is not an undersized full forward. He is a high half forward suited to leading up the wings. If he had been given an opportunity to do that at Essendon he would have been far more successful. It plays to his natural strengths which are bursts of speed with good hands. He can get clear of almost anyone over a 30 meter sprint, then he can get back quicker also. He is no rover, but is not bad at gathering the ball when he is in the clear which playing HHF allows him to do. Give him the chance to work in bursts in that zone and his fitness level is sufficient.
Ambrose doesn't have the same burst of speed and is not so good overhead. As such he has had to play quite a different and more defensive team role.
I don't understand how and why you have blinkered yourself when it comes to Crameri? He would be an awesome fit for our team right now.
 
I completely disagree. Crameri is not an undersized full forward. He is a high half forward suited to leading up the wings. If he had been given an opportunity to do that at Essendon he would have been far more successful. It plays to his natural strengths which are bursts of speed with good hands. He can get clear of almost anyone over a 30 meter sprint, then he can get back quicker also. He is no rover, but is not bad at gathering the ball when he is in the clear which playing HHF allows him to do. Give him the chance to work in bursts in that zone and his fitness level is sufficient.
Ambrose doesn't have the same burst of speed and is not so good overhead. As such he has had to play quite a different and more defensive team role.
I don't understand how and why you have blinkered yourself when it comes to Crameri? He would be an awesome fit for our team right now.
He definitely is. His main strengths are his contested marking and goal kicking, and you say that if he had an opportunity to roam the wings at Essendon he would have been successful? He did, and he sucked at it. His ability below his knees is mediocre at best and has little to no defensive pressure. I don't understand why the rest of you are raving about a 30 goal/year forward who fails to perform against good sides.
 
Sep 12, 2006
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Melbourne
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lets be honest, that wasn't much of an achievement
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Whatsonswhat

Cancelled
Nov 25, 2011
784
301
AFL Club
Essendon
B: Fletcher/Gwilt, Hooker, Baguley
HB: Hibberd, Hurley, Dempsey
C: Goddard, Watson, Stanton
HF: Cooney, Carlisle, Ambrose
F: Zaharakis, Daniher, Chapman
R: Bellchambers, Heppell, Myers
I/C: Winderlich, Hocking, Zerrett , Colyer
 

Bombers36

Premiership Player
Jul 15, 2008
3,442
1,465
Keilor East
AFL Club
Essendon
Baguley Hurley Fletch

Hibberd Hooker Dempsey

Goddard Watson Stanton

Chapman Daniher Zakka

Ambrose Carlisle Winders

TBell Heppell Hocking

Bench from: Myers Z.Merrett Cooney
SUB: Colyer


I think most people have got something pretty close to this for their best 22.
I think Ambrose is best 22 though Giles might get a run before him because of his ability to ruck.
Great depth with Giles, Howlett, Melksham, Kommer, Gwilt, Pears all experienced AFL players
Then theres Gleeson, J.Merrett, Fantasia, Langford, Laverde, Dalgleish who will all get a run at some stage. Really looking forward to an improved 2015 from the Bombers....
 
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