Strategy 2015 best side

[Rainfall]

No he's just too good for the vfl hence you won't see him there and as such won't get a chance to sook

Players too good for the Vfl: Thurlow Bews
Players in the vfl: thurlow Bews

 

[WeAreGeelong]

If we're going to start kicking the ball 8-10m, why not just go back to our high handpassing to kicking ratio game? By the time you drop the ball onto your foot to kick it, you could've got the handpass away and you won't be relying on the umpire to give you the benefit of the doubt with the length of your kick. Yeah, the Cats players probably won't get away with it as often as the Hawks players do- there must be a knack to how they deceive with the length of the kick- if you move on from where you've marked it quickly enough, perhaps the umpire second-guesses his estimate of the length you've kicked it.
Obviously, after you've taken possession from a handpass, you don't have the benefit of having taken a mark but then how often do our boys want to go back and kick over the mark anyway? We seem to want to move the ball on at all costs so, in that case, a quick handpass fired off will give a similar result to a short kick.

When you are paid the mark, it gives you a few seconds to set up the next play if need be. If there's a handball option, use it sure, but if not, then it allows you to go back and try to find a target. I just think that Hawthorn use this short kick often and it is extremely effective. They have won the last 2 premierships so I'm just trying to work out what it is that they do differently to us. This is an area I believe that they are ahead of other teams and if we can't find a way to beat it, then maybe we need to copy it to some extent.

 

[Whit3y]

So it's easier to kick more accurately over 20 metres than 10? Definitely do not agree, but happy to leave it at that.

What I mean by the comments above were that if the kick is deemed too short, their teammate will have the ball anyway and be able to dispose quite well even if under pressure as they have the ball, not their opponent. Hope this makes sense. Works in my head

good players kick accurately both from 10 and 20 metres

 

[WeAreGeelong]

good players kick accurately both from 10 and 20 metres

Agreed, and we have plenty of good players.

 

[Teriyakicat]

When you are paid the mark, it gives you a few seconds to set up the next play if need be. If there's a handball option, use it sure, but if not, then it allows you to go back and try to find a target. I just think that Hawthorn use this short kick often and it is extremely effective. They have won the last 2 premierships so I'm just trying to work out what it is that they do differently to us. This is an area I believe that they are ahead of other teams and if we can't find a way to beat it, then maybe we need to copy it to some extent.

I agree with the bolded, WAG, but I did say that the Cats would probably get pulled up for their short kicks

I think part of our problem (apart from the lack of fit ruckmen, our midfield weakness, our various injuries, our "kick it to Tom" game plan and other issues) is that the boys haven't really had a lot of continuity with playing alongside each other. In the past, the Cats were a well-drilled team and everyone knew exactly where to run and what their role on the field was. Until the young players improve and get fitter, until all players are willing to run as hard back as they've run forward (and I believe we will miss one or two departed players here) and until we can get a stable team on the field for more than a few weeks in a row, we won't be able to implement any fast moving game plan, whether it be via short kicking or quick hand passing. Hopefully we will see an improvement in this area as the young players mature and as (hopefully) the injured players get a better run. Bigger and better tanks, better commitment, improved skills, more understanding of where everyone will be as the ball goes forward - there are so many things that can improve between now and next season, which will see the Cats continue to excite and impress and be up near the top of the ladder at the pointy end of the season. I'm not sure if it will happen next year or the year after, when our new players settle into their roles but I'm optimistic that we still have a lot to look forward to over the coming years.

 

[vinum coupe]

Agreed, and we have plenty of good players.

As I said. No where near as many as Hawthorn.

 

[WeAreGeelong]

As I said. No where near as many as Hawthorn.

In your opinion. In mine we have. We are not that far away despite what all the doomsdayers in here say. I believe our players are as good as Hawthorn's. The difference in my opinion is Clarkson. If we had him this year, I reckon we win the flag. Not slight on Scott as I think he has done an excellent job of keeping us up there, I just think Clarkson is quite a bit better. Go back to 2008 - we had the better team and they still won. Outstanding coaching beat us that day, not their calibre of players.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Players too good for the Vfl: Thurlow Bews
Players in the vfl: thurlow Bews

Best 22 players out of the club Bundy, Varcoe.

Clark in for Walker, Stanley to fight it out with Blitz....

..... So your not actually advocating SJ to play vfl are you?

 

[Rainfall]

Best 22 players out of the club Bundy, Varcoe.

Clark in for Walker, Stanley to fight it out with Blitz....

..... So your not actually advocating SJ to play vfl are you?

Lmfao you honestly suggesting to remove blitz for Stanley? I'd prefer Stanley over Clark if any.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Lmfao you honestly suggesting to remove blitz for Stanley? I'd prefer Stanley over Clark if any.

That's your call, doesn't change that SJ is best 22 and you can't think of a credible reason for him not to be (after all that is what we're arguing).

Fitness permitting Clark should play CHF and like I said Blitz and Stanley to duke it out for 2nd ruck. However Stanley's manager has hinted at Stanley being forward ruck while Blitz to be used in the back half.

 

[Rainfall]

That's your call, doesn't change that SJ is best 22 and you can't think of a credible reason for him not to be (after all that is what we're arguing).

Fitness permitting Clark should play CHF and like I said Blitz and Stanley to duke it out for 2nd ruck. However Stanley's manager has hinted at Stanley being forward ruck while Blitz to be used in the back half.

If Blitz goes HB then I have no problem but omitting him for a nobody (tho I like Stanley) is ridiculous.

 

[Hello Kitty]

Our I50 figures were good, and our conversion rates from I50s were good.
We were hammered out of the middle, not out of our F50.
We need more good mids, especially big inside mids.

+ a good ruck to get the ball to our mids? ???

 

[Hello Kitty]

Our clearance numbers were very poor, no doubt. I don't think they were specifically responsible for our poor second halves though. However, they definitely contributed to our lack of run and overall performance.

Without competent rucks, we relied on turnovers, as the ball was heading to the oppo team's forward line. As for our poor second halves, I'm going to jump on my hobby horse again - inaccurate goal kicking! Clangers from set shots, or players snapping wildly instead of taking a second to gather themselves + kick goals. I think another thing that's killing us at times is the long bomb to Tomahawk, with five defenders hanging off him! He is so much more effective when he runs out on the lead + marks the ball. Well, that's my two cents worth

 

[Hello Kitty]

I certainly didn't mean to sell them short YPO. Obviously they are a great team, well coached with a lot of very good players. But they are beatable IMO. I think their coach is a master tactician and wish he'd piss off to be honest, but I also think they can be beaten by a good game plan. I think ours can beat them as it has worked so many times over the past few years. Yes they have improved and we declined a little, but I still think (rightly or wrongly) that our game plan can beat them. Interesting times ahead.

And you weren't butting in. I addressed the question to Fred but am happy to hear from anyone that wishes to contribute.

My thinking is that we are good at applying pressure to the Hawks. Their game is based on having their players in open space, to move the ball quickly. When we crowd them, they crumble. If we have a player say, between the handballer + the Midget, we can intercept. I think YPO made a good point - "notice if anyone kicks a couple of quick goal on them straight away you will see Roughead and Gunston down back until they regain the momentum" + conversely, they always seem to have a player who can move forward quickly, so there is a player who can take an I50 mark + goal.

 

[Hello Kitty]

Even early this season I might have agreed. But the last two occasions we've played them they've picked us apart pretty easily. They've got a better spread of talent, far better skills, and they work harder. Plus, until I see otherwise I'd say Clarkson has Scott's measure fairly comfortably right now as well.

It's not surprising that Hawthorn + Clark have focused on beating us. We've been their nemesis until 2013. Now, we need to do the hard work + focus on beating the teams above us - as you expressed so well - "As far as I'm concerned, any team that finishes above us on ladder by definition has qualities we could and should try to learn from." For how long now, have teams played hard against us to gauge their progress?

 

[WeAreGeelong]

My thinking is that we are good at applying pressure to the Hawks. Their game is based on having their players in open space, to move the ball quickly. When we crowd them, they crumble. If we have a player say, between the handballer + the Midget, we can intercept. I think YPO made a good point - "notice if anyone kicks a couple of quick goal on them straight away you will see Roughead and Gunston down back until they regain the momentum" + conversely, they always seem to have a player who can move forward quickly, so there is a player who can take an I50 mark + goal.

Yeah I hadn't really noticed Gunston down back much, but Roughead certainly roams around a bit. Also didn't really realise that they do this on a regular basis after a couple of goals kicked. Will check it out next year. Interesting though and sounds like a good plan. Maybe as others have suggested we don't need to follow Hawthorn's game plan, but I can't see any harm in looking at what the better clubs are doing and trying to either offset it with a tactic of our own or adapting it in some way. I'm sure the club has people looking at this stuff all the time anyway. Obviously it makes no difference what we say on here, I just think it's interesting to dissect.

 

[Hello Kitty]

So by the looks of it, you guys think our game plan isn't up to it? Should we be just tweaking then or should we look to try to implement a form of the short kicking game which appears to work so well?
I'm in the tweaking camp as I think there certainly is some merit to our game plan and it's effectiveness. Maybe the game has gone past our game plan, maybe it hasn't. I think it can still work. Shoot me.

How about our strength playing through the corridor? I'm asking because I can't recall how effective we were last season, with that strategy? Poor old brain is fading.

 

[Hello Kitty]

Yeah I hadn't really noticed Gunston down back much, but Roughead certainly roams around a bit. Also didn't really realise that they do this on a regular basis after a couple of goals kicked. Will check it out next year. Interesting though and sounds like a good plan. Maybe as others have suggested we don't need to follow Hawthorn's game plan, but I can't see any harm in looking at what the better clubs are doing and trying to either offset it with a tactic of our own or adapting it in some way. I'm sure the club has people looking at this stuff all the time anyway. Obviously it makes no difference what we say on here, I just think it's interesting to dissect.

I agree WAG, it's the best, dissecting + discussing! I'm going to re-read your original comment, perhaps I've misunderstood. Do you remember when Guthrie used to stay back + when the ball was going back, he'd be there to snaffle it + boot it forward? That's a strategy, which was effective. I agree, with you + Partridge, no harm in looking at the other clubs' strategies at all, besides that's what the other teams have been doing with us, studying our game + using our strategies! + it's that, well I think, which has evened the competition.

 

[WeAreGeelong]

How about our strength playing through the corridor? I'm asking because I can't recall how effective we were last season, with that strategy? Poor old brain is fading.

I think we still go alright through the corridor, but I don't have any facts or stats to back that up. It certainly used to be an excellent game plan and as others have said Port Adelaide appear to play a version of our 2007-2011 ish style, but maybe we are just a bit predictable these days. Perhaps changing it up a little might work. I'm certainly no expert, just putting ideas out there Kitty And yeah my poor old brain is fading also. Lots of great GFC memories are still hoarding around in there though, so not all lost just yet.

 

[Hello Kitty]

I also loved that beautifully choreographed handballing along the wing, with three players, who would dodge or shepherd the oppo players. I remember seeing it from an aerial view + it was sublime!

 

[MotlopMagic]

Without competent rucks, we relied on turnovers, as the ball was heading to the oppo team's forward line. As for our poor second halves, I'm going to jump on my hobby horse again - inaccurate goal kicking! Clangers from set shots, or players snapping wildly instead of taking a second to gather themselves + kick goals. I think another thing that's killing us at times is the long bomb to Tomahawk, with five defenders hanging off him! He is so much more effective when he runs out on the lead + marks the ball. Well, that's my two cents worth

Being reliant on opposition turnovers is not sustainable. Highly skilled teams like Hawthorn crucify us because they simply don't turnover the ball often enough. Our ruckmen have a lot to answer for but our midfielders aren't without blame either.

I agree that our goal kicking has been poor but that isn't something new. It's just more noticeable now that we've come back to the pack so to speak. I don't think it had any bearing on our ability to run out second halves though.

The constant long bomb to Hawk can be infuriating at times. Hopefully we won't be so one dimensional with Clark in our forward set up.

 

[Eudey]

Does anyone else think they'll play Stanley as #1 ruck?

He had some praises for his ruck work this year as a back up. Maybe the GFC see him as a more mobile ruck that'll rest forward

I would actual like to see this as I think one aspect we struggled all year was with our kick ins.

Often when you have no options, you go long to the talls (ala freo to Sandy), and their height and obvious making advantage is like a "get out of jail free" card.

I noticed wherever we did this, Hmac or Simpson couldn't mark squat. At least Stanley has a good pair of hands

 

[Teriyakicat]

Does anyone else think they'll play Stanley as #1 ruck?

He had some praises for his ruck work this year as a back up. Maybe the GFC see him as a more mobile ruck that'll rest forward

I would actual like to see this as I think one aspect we struggled all year was with our kick ins.

Often when you have no options, you go long to the talls (ala freo to Sandy), and their height and obvious making advantage is like a "get out of jail free" card.

I noticed wherever we did this, Hmac or Simpson couldn't mark squat. At least Stanley has a good pair of hands

I think there are a few posters who agree with your thoughts on Stanley as #1 ruck, Eudey. Recruiting him solely as a forward doesn't make sense, as we have Hawkins, we've just grabbed Clark, and the MC seem to love Vardy. We seem to also have a few blokes who can be good #2 rucks. We didn't appear to look at trading for a known young #1 and neither Simpson nor HMac are guarantees to play a full season at this stage.
Stanley as our #1 makes sense- until we see something that makes us think otherwise

 

[Mooneyman]

I do enjoy how this thread has turned from best side 2015 in to who will not be in our best side!

 

[Mooneyman]

Fwiw my best side 2015

Rivers-lonergan-bews

Enright-Taylor-mackie

Motlop-caddy-Duncan

Murdoch-Clark-kersten

Stokes-Hawkins-Johnson

Fol: Stanley-selwood-Guthrie

Int: Kelly, Bartel -blicavs

Sub: horlin-smith

We can bang on about how good lang and Hartman are going to be, which I am sure they will be, and how Menzel, Cowan and Vardy are going to make a massive difference. But truth be told, after 2-4 years of injuries we need a reality check, by all means I hope they come back and absolutely dominate, however realistically the first few weeks at least, they won't. Maybe not even the first half of the season. I want to be wrong, I want Menzel to come out and kick 5 goals round 1, but it may take him until round 22 to make an impact. As for lang and Jansen and kolo, it's only their second year in a team that finished 3rd after the home and away season. I read that people think Kelly is done, and I only assume that it is because he allowed Thomas to kick a few goals in the first half of the final last year, look at his second half where shut him down!!
I believe all, including myself, put to much pressure on either the young players to step up or on the older guys who have one or two bad games to take a step back

I apologise for an overly long post!!