2015 Draft Discussion

[SizeMatters]

I like the points system but I think any player bid on after 1st round should use next available pick.

 

[lionsbest]

Academy was fine how it was.

It's still not all that awful now, just confusing for the most part.

I totally agree.It should have been kept as is.

 

[braddsey]

Okay. It's just that clubs with an academy will always have precedence. If they really value that player they won't ever have to give them up. Unless they have a legion of players worthy of top 10 picks they will be able to obtain all the ones they really want.

Yes, but this is the intent - the academies only exist in non-AFL markets so the AFL can try and balance the league and remove go-home factor without the need to pay COLA or retention allowances. It's why the Melbourne clubs fought so hard against the 25% discount.
If over the next 2-3 years we start to see a real advantage from the academies that the other clubs don't get, you can bet the discount will be reduced. I would think that the academy system will be extended to other clubs with all clubs getting first dibs on their own academy players.

 

[lionsbest]

Yes, but this is the intent - the academies only exist in non-AFL markets so the AFL can try and balance the league and remove go-home factor without the need to pay COLA or retention allowances. It's why the Melbourne clubs fought so hard against the 25% discount.
If over the next 2-3 years we start to see a real advantage from the academies that the other clubs don't get, you can bet the discount will be reduced. I would think that the academy system will be extended to other clubs with all clubs getting first dibs on their own academy players.

I agree that could possibly happen.The problem for Brisbane (if this did happen), is that academies with Victorian clubs would have far better talent pools than currently in Queensland. Queensland is unique, so the imbalance will continue to the detriment of Queensland based clubs.

 

[lionsbest]

I think you need to look deeper into how the points system and matching bids works.

edit: you too lionsbest

Just wanted to start a debate to see if fellow lions supporters can think of something ,that may be better. I respect your view.

 

[neg99]

Just wanted to start a debate to see if fellow lions supporters can think of something ,that may be better. I respect your view.

I also don't think describing the points system as the piece the club hates is accurate. I don't think anyone has an issue with a points system, the issue is in what discount is applied. In the old system the discount using the same scale would fluctuate massively (I.e. Heeneys discount was enormous compared to Harris Andrews) and in fact the new system is better for us for bids from the 3rd round on. We just happen to have 3 first round potential picks in 2 years just as this is established.

IMO the system itself is pretty good and more equitable than the previous one but I'd like to see the points discount between 25-30%.


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[Leuy LongerCombo]

Just wanted to start a debate to see if fellow lions supporters can think of something ,that may be better. I respect your view.

A potential problem with that system, could be nuisance bidding. Bidding teams could see it as an opportunity to improve their draft position (under the right circumstances) and force nominating team to pay considerably more than the current system.

The current system is a lot fairer then the old, I think most of the confusion/worries are coming from not seeing the system work yet.

Ive spent a bit of time going through a few different scanerios, and there seems to be no glaring faults with it.

The idea of potential pick trading at draft I like, if there's a slider someone likes atleast you have an opportunity to make a trade. It's a good aspect of the NBA draft, would drag it out thou

 

[SizeMatters]

Is the point system only used by FS and Academy players? Why don't they just incorporate the discount permanently into the system?

 

[Lions_Insider]

Another question on points and bidding (if anyone has some info). Again, using Allison as the example. If Brisbane is holding pick 5, and another club says they will take him at pick 4, Brisbane will agree to match the bid.

Brisbane's pick 5 is worth 1878 points.
Allison at pick 4 would cost 2034 - 20% so total 1627.

Do we get the remaining 251 points credited back somewhere?

My understanding is that the 251 points aren't credited back to the Club. See below example of how Darcy Moore's drafting would have transpired had it been this year.

With regards to your hypothetical, I understand we would simply get Allison at Pick 4, and then the draft resumes from Pick 5 onwards...

 

[Flea_29]

My understanding is that the 251 points aren't credited back to the Club. See below example of how Darcy Moore's drafting would have transpired had it been this year.

With regards to your hypothetical, I understand we would simply get Allison at Pick 4, and then the draft resumes from Pick 5 onwards...

I'm not sure that is right.
I would think that the other 251 points then gets you pick 52 in the draft (pick 51 = 259pts & pick 52 = 246).
I'm sure there was an example with Isaac Heeney that had overflow points getting Syd a late draft pick.

 

[Flea_29]

I've just read the document.
It states that Collingwood did not use the remaining points - this means that they did not use any draft pick after 50 in the 2014 draft.

http://www.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL Tenant/AFL/Files/Father-son-bidding-system.pdf

 

[xplo]

The points system isn't exactly elegant, but the more I see of it, the more I think it looks to be working.

I would think that the academy system will be extended to other clubs with all clubs getting first dibs on their own academy players.

This would be crazy. Can't happen. That's just a return to the old zone system where the best resourced clubs find all the Weitering's, Boyd's or Nicknat's at 12 or 13 and offer them a scholarship at Carey or Assumption College or whatever school is in their zone. The top 30-40 kids never enter the draft, which kills the system.

Academies are designed solely to tackle the imbalance in the northern frontier clubs representing 22% of AFL list spots, but supplying less that 10% of players (don't quote me on that number). The closer that gets to parity, the more the go-home factor goes away. Giving the other 14 clubs their own Academies would be worse than just closing the northern academies.

 

[dlanod]

My understanding is that the 251 points aren't credited back to the Club. See below example of how Darcy Moore's drafting would have transpired had it been this year.

With regards to your hypothetical, I understand we would simply get Allison at Pick 4, and then the draft resumes from Pick 5 onwards...

The Darcy Moore example is misleading. There would be no pick going back to Collingwood because the pick that would've come back would have been later than the draft picks they needed than the number of free list slots they had. If you look at any of the other examples, they all include a draft pick coming back.

 

[Fatcat08]

My understanding is that the 251 points aren't credited back to the Club. See below example of how Darcy Moore's drafting would have transpired had it been this year.

With regards to your hypothetical, I understand we would simply get Allison at Pick 4, and then the draft resumes from Pick 5 onwards...

As others have stated this is incorrect. The example there even says Collingwood don't use the remaining points, not that they don't get them. I find it a little disconcerting a Lions official source doesn't know the rules surrounding this however I'm going to guess that the List management section of the lions weren't consulted before the reply was made. If you' haven't read much into it the rules as they stand are pretty easy to misinterpret.

 

[scoman]

Might be a silly question but what happens if a mistake ia made on the night. With all the discounts and shuffling going on it isnt out of the question. Imagine if a few hours later or the next day the mistake is realized........

What then?

Redo? Leave as is?

 

[Old Den]

Note that in the Isaac Heeney example as shown in the link below Sydney's fourth round pick would have been pushed to a later pick to obtain the final 80 points owed.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-05-...ed-for-fatherson-and-northern-academy-players

 

[xplo]

I find it a little disconcerting a Lions official source doesn't know the rules surrounding this however I'm going to guess that the List management section of the lions weren't consulted before the reply was made.

We're only screwed if the draft is held entirely over Twitter by the social media team. I can see it now...

"@brisbanelions: AFL pick#2 Schache FTW! lol #booyah #afldraft2015"

 

[dlanod]

As others have stated this is incorrect. The example there even says Collingwood don't use the remaining points, not that they don't get them. I find it a little disconcerting a Lions official source doesn't know the rules surrounding this however I'm going to guess that the List management section of the lions weren't consulted before the reply was made. If you' haven't read much into it the rules as they stand are pretty easy to misinterpret.

To be fair I don't really blame them given I'm assuming the person behind it would be social media, not Schwab, etc. I don't want to think about the amount of time I've spent parsing this rubbish and reconciling the AFL's spotty and "make it up as they go along" documentation.

The other funny thing I noticed quite some time ago in that Darcy Moore example that's pretty glaring but no one seems to have raised it - it gives Collingwood pick 6 and bases all the calculations off that, except Collingwood never had pick 6. They had pick 8, traded pick 4 off us, and then they both got bumped to picks 5 and 9 because of the Frawley compo.

 

[Lions_Insider]

My bad. Rest assured I'm just an 'Insider', and not part of the recruiting team. Schwabby and co will be over it.

 

[Sanchez365]

To be fair I don't really blame them given I'm assuming the person behind it would be social media, not Schwab, etc. I don't want to think about the amount of time I've spent parsing this rubbish and reconciling the AFL's spotty and "make it up as they go along" documentation.

The other funny thing I noticed quite some time ago in that Darcy Moore example that's pretty glaring but no one seems to have raised it - it gives Collingwood pick 6 and bases all the calculations off that, except Collingwood never had pick 6. They had pick 8, traded pick 4 off us, and then they both got bumped to picks 5 and 9 because of the Frawley compo.

It's based off pick 6 because in the hypothetical of the 2014 draft period, Sydney's pick would have been moved up to pick 3 (for heeney) and then everyone would have been moved a place back after that. Not that that makes a lot of sense for them to include that one transaction.

 

[dlanod]

It's based off pick 6 because in the hypothetical of the 2014 draft period, Sydney's pick would have been moved up to pick 3 (for heeney) and then everyone would have been moved a place back after that. Not that that makes a lot of sense for them to include that one transaction.

I thought that what they might have done is somehow create Frankensteins of examples by taking the bid from last year's nomination period, pre-free agent compensation and trades, and then apply it to the final draft order with each subsequent bid being based off the result of the bids prior... except the picks don't even line up with that, as Sydney jumps from having 64 after Heeney to having 62 when it comes to Hiscox despite no one else losing a pick in that range. Unless what they've done is calculate all of the bids, including Dawson and Andrews, and that's the missing picks? Who the hell knows?

 

[braddsey]

Might be a silly question but what happens if a mistake ia made on the night. With all the discounts and shuffling going on it isnt out of the question. Imagine if a few hours later or the next day the mistake is realized........

What then?

Redo? Leave as is?

I'm hoping the guy up the front keeping tally has fully tested all his excel macros! one bad vlookup and the draft will blow up!

 

[Fatcat08]

Might be a silly question but what happens if a mistake ia made on the night. With all the discounts and shuffling going on it isnt out of the question. Imagine if a few hours later or the next day the mistake is realized........

What then?

Redo? Leave as is?

Champion data are developing a program to tell clubs all the possibilities in real time. I'd imagine it will be well tested beforehand

 

[WA Lion]

Champion data are developing a program to tell clubs all the possibilities in real time. I'd imagine it will be well tested beforehand

Do you know if that program will be visible to fans? Either via AFL website or on Fox Footy coverage?

 

[Fatcat08]

Do you know if that program will be visible to fans? Either via AFL website or on Fox Footy coverage?

No idea but given the AFL's stance on transparency I'd doubt it