Injury 2015 Injury Updates

[CursingFijian]

After that 4th quarter in NAB1 we were all singing the praises of the fitness regime. Could this latest episode (Saunders/Armitage) just be the club being hyper sensitive to soreness in the leg generally? If Savage comes back jn for R1 along with Geary and Armitage, and Billings stacks up for R2 then we really probably have only lost Ross out the best 22. Lets not do that old Saints thing of throwing out the bathwater, only to start wondering where the heck baby went! Personally it could be a great way to blood some youth early (Lonie/Sinclair/McCartin/Goddard) and then quickly reintroduce some experience as each player returns from injury.

 

[Verdun66]

Ray probably best 22. Think we underate him. But agree with what you say CF. Young blokes get a go early, and hopefully a few older players start returning from their injuries as the young ones tire. Long season.

 

[Barrels]

After that 4th quarter in NAB1 we were all singing the praises of the fitness regime. Could this latest episode (Saunders/Armitage) just be the club being hyper sensitive to soreness in the leg generally? If Savage comes back jn for R1 along with Geary and Armitage, and Billings stacks up for R2 then we really probably have only lost Ross out the best 22. Lets not do that old Saints thing of throwing out the bathwater, only to start wondering where the heck baby went! Personally it could be a great way to blood some youth early (Lonie/Sinclair/McCartin/Goddard) and then quickly reintroduce some experience as each player returns from injury.

Got a lot of sympathy for the early part of your post mate; I've done double-figure hamstrings (both combined), groins, had multiple hip surgeries and two knee clean outs including repairing a partial dislocation, twanged a calf a couple of times and rolled my ankle a fair bit as a young fella.

Fair to say I was pretty susceptible to injury.

I played through a lot of little niggles where I shouldn't have, and probably made them worse, but in the end my biomechanics was so screwed up that there was very little the medical staff at the couple of clubs I played at could have done to stop them happening.

Certainly AFL footballers will have much better underlying mechanics than I did/do (you'd hope), and they have access to much more sophisticated means of injury assessment, treatment and preventative processes, but some people are just more likely than the average to get injured; see Clarke, Xavier...

 

[Defacto]

Was chatting to a mate of mine on the weekend who works in England with Premier league clubs and what he was telling me was quite interesting regarding the way clubs deal with soft-tissue injuries and conditioning etc. and how it has advanced over the years. Essentially the advancement is about identifying what body/muscle type a player has and ensuring that any training they do, whether individual or group, does not expose them to more injury.

An example he talked about was Liverpool being extremely pissed off with the England FA for not understanding that Daniel Sturridge, with his fast-twitch muscle type, needed a couple of days off after a match to recover or he was likely to do a muscle – instead he went to England training and their coaches included him in the sessions and sure enough his competitive instincts took over and “ping” there goes a muscle…..

What was interesting was that my mate was saying a lot of work goes into ensuring players are saved from themselves by ensuring they don’t train or play on particular days, especially in pre-season as (and this is especially relevant with young players wanting to prove themselves) when they get on the training track or field they will always be going 100% as they are competitive beasts. The thing is that one type of running or training doesn’t suit all and for some, certain types of training will actually increase their chance of soft-tissue injuries.

For me seeing a spate of injuries like we are having points to an environment where the head conditioning guys have been given the directive from above to “increase fitness levels across the board” and are pumping miles into the legs and lungs of the players but potentially not looking at the individual differences in body/muscle types and ensuring players who are more prone to soft-tissue injuries are kept from the track/matches on certain days.

We of all clubs know the difference good conditioning staff make. Compare 2005 with GT and his training services and how many soft-tissue injuries to when we were flying in 2009 with different conditioning staff. It just makes such a difference and I really hope that as a club we are keeping an eye on these injuries and the conditioning staff to ensure they are not doing more harm than good. It’s never good for young players to get these types of injuries so it is certainly concerning.

You should read burgess piece of the difference between EPL and AFL. In the EPL it is as your mates suggest, more about rest than getting miles into their legs, due to the frequency of games

AFL is different though, they have more time to get miles into them

 

[Curious George]

Time to go - Adam Basil High Performance Manager, Andrew WALLIS Head Physiotherapist, Josh Low Strength & Conditioning Manager & Andrew Waddington Head Trainer...they have had their chances and continue to display their incompetence. Time they are replaced....

Football clubs go through head physio's like you would know! These people are top of there profession. They own there own clinics and are hard to attract.

When you change a training scheme you will get injuries! Players are not used to it. Adam Basil's come in and this is only his 2nd year.
Andrew wallis is in his 2nd-3rd year.
Head trainer has nothing to do with it, they get overruled on every occasion.
People off the feild come and go, if everyone's replaced then that will set the club back!

 

[Defacto]

Time to go - Adam Basil High Performance Manager, Andrew WALLIS Head Physiotherapist, Josh Low Strength & Conditioning Manager & Andrew Waddington Head Trainer...they have had their chances and continue to display their incompetence. Time they are replaced....

Geeze you don't hold back do you

 

[dewah07]

After that 4th quarter in NAB1 we were all singing the praises of the fitness regime. Could this latest episode (Saunders/Armitage) just be the club being hyper sensitive to soreness in the leg generally? If Savage comes back jn for R1 along with Geary and Armitage, and Billings stacks up for R2 then we really probably have only lost Ross out the best 22. Lets not do that old Saints thing of throwing out the bathwater, only to start wondering where the heck baby went! Personally it could be a great way to blood some youth early (Lonie/Sinclair/McCartin/Goddard) and then quickly reintroduce some experience as each player returns from injury.

Theirs no more saying it's coincidence, bad luck or management. It's a joke right now all the soft tissue Injuries

 

[Curious George]

Clubs have been recording data on players and fatigue for years. We had an awesome run in 09 and 2010 because Misson had 3 years of data on a lot of players. They are able to predict what is going on with the player's body and adjust training accordingly. It is called predictive analytics which is used on big data which is the hottest thing in town right now.

i am always concerned when we take sports scientists from other sports and teams and stick them into our system because they don't have the history or "passport" on a particular player. Hence I share my concerns with a League bloke coming into the AFL.

I am generally concerned with how we bring players back too early. If a player is injured he will inevitably injure something else because of the change in gait or susceptibility of the nearby muscle group. Like a car - if the motor is broken then it will probably blow out a hose or exhaust as a result.

Let's look some players over the last few years (that I can remember):

• Roberton - injured ankle. required needles to play. season was over and he kept playing. shattered his ankle in the final game of the season and took 18 months to recover. Conclusion - mismanagement. The weak joint will lead to injury. Ah der...
• Gilbert - injured foot. Pre-season of rehab and comes back too early. Season of rehab. Foot goes again. Conclusion - first round of rehab was too short and he has never recovered.
• Fish - toe. Misses nearly a season. Conclusion - a phone call with Lleyton Hewitt and he decides to have the surgery that fixes the problem. Conclusion - mismanagement. i could see from the top row that he couldn't jump. He was like that for the first 5 games!!!
• Billings - hamstring. 18 year old in his first season. Plays heaps of games including the final games of the season despite the club heading for the wooden spoon. Conclusion - mismanagement. For gods sake - who plays first year kids in the final rounds!!!!!!! Pre-season. Bulks up and trains the house down. Pumped up as the next big thing. Hammy goes after a long flight to QLD and hot and dry conditions which = soft tissue injuries.
• Dunstan - injures shoulder in round 16ish. Partial dislocation. Plays on for the rest of the season with strapping and it pops badly in round 18ish. Conclusion - mismanagement. Why risk him when it is already susceptible???????
• Hickey - knee tendonitis and foot. Has tendonitis which he carries for our first season. Remember the day game against the Giants (I think) when they kept running him up and down the boundary line. he was stuffed and he came back on!!!!. conclusion - mismanagement. The knee issues lead to a bad gait and resulting foot issues. Conclusion - mismanagement. Should have gone to pasture much earlier.
• Siposs - shoulder - young skinny kid told to "go in hard". Some on this forum should be ashamed of themselves. He finally "goes in hard" and stuffs his shoulders. Since when is a 6'4" skinny kid with a big kick expected to go in hard for ground level balls. Does his shoulder. told he is out the door if he doesn't perform. Plays on and injures it even worse. Does rehab and comes back in pre-season and told to "go hard". Wrecks shoulder again. Conclusion - mismanagement. Michael Tuck played about 110 reserves games to give him time to build his body.
• Markworth - shoulder. Injures it in pre-season. comes back too early and pops it into the next gallaxy. Conclusion - mismanagement.

As for other recent injuries.

Ross - just plain bad luck but his iceberg body doesn't help. He is as slow and as flexible as an iceberg.
Ray - just bad luck.

My conclusion is that we need to take a good hard look at our fitness guys and medical staff because something aint right.

And before you jump all over me - I was in this space for many years and trained athletes at this level and with about 100th of the budget.

Think you're looked into it a bit much, but do agree with some.
Occasions like Gilbert last year shouldn't have happened, billings shouldn't have played.
Wouldn't say it's poor mismanagement for guys like hickey, Roberton, Markworth even Dunstan because these guys pass fitness tests & rehab, if there ready to go, you cannot not play them on the risk they'll re-injure.

 

[dewah07]

Time to go - Adam Basil High Performance Manager, Andrew WALLIS Head Physiotherapist, Josh Low Strength & Conditioning Manager & Andrew Waddington Head Trainer...they have had their chances and continue to display their incompetence. Time they are replaced....

Disagree they don't need to leave change their program asap tho and strip back workloads and increase recovery and strength training or even time watching film and off the track

 

[CursingFijian]

Hamstring muscle injuries — such as a "pulled hamstring" — occur frequently in athletes. They are especially common in athletes who participate in sports that require sprinting, such as track, soccer, and basketball.

A pulled hamstring or strain is an injury to one or more of the muscles at the back of the thigh. Most hamstring injuries respond well to simple, nonsurgical treatments.

Anatomy
The hamstring muscles run down the back of the thigh. There are three hamstring muscles:

• Semitendinosus
• Semimembranosus
• Biceps femoris

Normal hamstring anatomy
They start at the bottom of the pelvis at a place called the ischial tuberosity. They cross the knee joint and end at the lower leg. Hamstring muscle fibers join with the tough, connective tissue of the hamstring tendons near the points where the tendons attach to bones.

The hamstring muscle group helps you extend your leg straight back and bend your knee.

Top of page
Description
A hamstring injury can be a pull, a partial tear, or a complete tear.

Muscle strains are graded according to their severity. A grade 1 strain is mild and usually heals readily; a grade 3 strain is a complete tear of the muscle that may take months to heal.

Most hamstring injuries occur in the thick part of the muscle or where the muscle fibers join tendon fibers.

In the most severe hamstring injuries, the tendon tears completely away from the bone. It may even pull a piece of bone away with it. This is called an avulsion injury.

A severe hamstring injury where the tendon has been torn from the bone.
Top of page
Cause
Muscle Overload
Muscle overload is the main cause of hamstring muscle strain. This can happen when the muscle is stretched beyond its capacity or challenged with a sudden load.

Hamstring muscle strains often occur when the muscle lengthens as it contracts, or shortens. Although it sounds contradictory, this happens when you extend a muscle while it is weighted, or loaded. This is called an "eccentric contraction."

During sprinting, the hamstring muscles contract eccentrically as the back leg is straightened and the toes are used to push off and move forward. The hamstring muscles are not only lengthened at this point in the stride, but they are also loaded — with body weight as well as the force required for forward motion.

Like strains, hamstring tendon avulsions are also caused by large, sudden loads.

Risk Factors
Several factors can make it more likely you will have a muscle strain, including:

Muscle tightness. Tight muscles are vulnerable to strain. Athletes should follow a year-round program of daily stretching exercises.

Muscle imbalance. When one muscle group is much stronger than its opposing muscle group, the imbalance can lead to a strain. This frequently happens with the hamstring muscles. The quadriceps muscles at the front of the thigh are usually more powerful. During high-speed activities, the hamstring may become fatigued faster than the quadriceps. This fatigue can lead to a strain.

Poor conditioning. If your muscles are weak, they are less able to cope with the stress of exercise and are more likely to be injured.

Muscle fatigue. Fatigue reduces the energy-absorbing capabilities of muscle, making them more susceptible to injury.

Choice of activity. Anyone can experience hamstring strain, but those especially at risk are:

• Athletes who participate in sports like football, soccer, basketball
• Runners or sprinters
• Dancers
• Older athletes whose exercise program is primarily walking
• Adolescent athletes who are still growing

Hamstring strains occur more often in adolescents because bones and muscles do not grow at the same rate. During a growth spurt, a child's bones may grow faster than the muscles. The growing bone pulls the muscle tight. A sudden jump, stretch, or impact can tear the muscle away from its connection to the bone.

 

[Easy Mode]

Time to go - Adam Basil High Performance Manager, Andrew WALLIS Head Physiotherapist, Josh Low Strength & Conditioning Manager & Andrew Waddington Head Trainer...they have had their chances and continue to display their incompetence. Time they are replaced....

Would rather they didn't throw the baby out with the bath water to be honest.

Its been well publicised that we're pushing our younger players in the pre-season to the limit to try and fast track their developments so its not surprising that we've had some causalities. I think tweaking the program would be a better approach rather than a complete overhaul.

 

[Winners Only]

Geeze you don't hold back do you

Yeah it was a tongue and cheak statement, but there was an obvious link to the players sustaining feet injuries after being expected to run half marathons in sub zero temperature a
s was the case in Colorado.

Now the run of hamstring injuries this year after the huge jump in running workloads. Surely the Fitness Manager knows they cant expect to add such a degree of workload over a short period and not expect issues.

The coaching staff have understandably wanted a fitter and harder running team but surely it is guys like Basil and Wallis's role to temper that to safe load levels. Somebody has to be responsible or acountable for the delema they cant all escape under the 'bad luck' clause surely...

 

[dewah07]

My choice
Muscle imbalance. When one muscle group is much stronger than its opposing muscle group, the imbalance can lead to a strain. This frequently happens with the hamstring muscles. The quadriceps muscles at the front of the thigh are usually more powerful. During high-speed activities, the hamstring may become fatigued faster than the quadriceps. This fatigue can lead to a strain.

 

[Periphery]

My choice
Muscle imbalance. When one muscle group is much stronger than its opposing muscle group, the imbalance can lead to a strain. This frequently happens with the hamstring muscles. The quadriceps muscles at the front of the thigh are usually more powerful. During high-speed activities, the hamstring may become fatigued faster than the quadriceps. This fatigue can lead to a strain.

Except there's no way any person devising exercise plans for players at this level would not know about muscle imbalances work in some serious hammy exercises to keep them strong.

 

[Strahany]

Muscle imbalance in an explosive athlete? I could understand that. But it would be less likely to occur in an athlete geared towards endurance, let alone one with access to some of the highest level facilities available.

 

[dewah07]

Except there's no way any person devising exercise plans for players at this level would not know about muscle imbalances work in some serious hammy exercises to keep them strong.

What's your reason then? And I swear to god if u say coincidence... Also I didn't say I went to medicle school I was just having a guess.

Also I have been reading up on muscle Inbalance and teams such as the Yankees and NYgiants have had to manage muscle Inbalance so it is possible

 

[Periphery]

What's your reason then? And I swear to god if u say coincidence... Also I didn't say I went to medicle school I was just having a guess.

Also I have been reading up on muscle Inbalance and teams such as the Yankees and NYgiants have had to manage muscle Inbalance so it is possible

It's probably a combination of many different factors. Speculating about it is pretty much pointless as it's likely none of us are experts in the field and guaranteed that none of us have all the info about the players and fitness regimes in place.

 

[Rors]

Could also be due to muscle fatigue... We've only started to play 'real games' in the last month, and this increase in intensity is when all these injuries have occurred. I'd say some are due to muscle imbalance & others are due to fatigue.

Would I be right in saying that Saunders played a full game on the weekend in Sandy's intraclub? Interesting he did his hammy at the first real training session since that game. I could be wrong, but I think it has some merit.

 

[CursingFijian]

Sexton said the club believed young forward Josh Saunders had escaped hamstring damage in a training incident this week.

Saunders will miss Thursday night's game with soreness, similar to what Dylan Roberton developed after the game against the Brisbane Lions.

But Sexton said they had reviewed some of their procedures after a sudden spate of soft tissue injuries claimed Jack Billings, Shane Savage, Seb Ross and Farren Ray in the space of two weeks.

"We went and had a look at it and it was a really heavy load that week going into the Brisbane game, and then we travelled and there was heat," he said.

"There were a lot of things in the mix.

"We thought we had done a heavy load but we've since adjusted some recovery protocols and we'll have some more testing to highlight when guys can be backed off and when they're good to do the whole lot.

"It wasn't good to go through but we've unearthed some things and think we're on top of it now."

While Ross and Ray are facing nearly three months out after surgery to repair their injuries, Savage and Billings could face the Giants.

But Sexton admitted the timeframe would be tight.

"They're starting one-on-one training really soon … they're going to be close for round one,” he said.

"There's still two weeks to go so there's a lot of things they need to get through but they're close to returning to training."

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-03-18/roo-to-play-if-he-wants

 

[Desi Van_83]

This thread is depressing the sh!t out of me. Jesus.

 

[hayes]

Probably going to jinx it but what the hell:

Acres
Dunstan
Newnes
Lonie
Wright
McCartin
Steven
Eli
Lee
Roberton
Membrey
Goddard
Saad
Sinclair
White

There's some of the names of the younger players who currently aren't injured. It's frustrating to start off with so many injuries but there's still plenty of reasons to be excited for the season.

 

[Sir Skid]

This thread is depressing the sh!t out of me. Jesus.

It must be. You look like Sh1t.
Just don't go thrusting a bolt through your neck or something.........

 

[NarklesHelmet]

"We thought we had done a heavy load but we've since adjusted some recovery protocols and we'll have some more testing to highlight when guys can be backed off and when they're good to do the whole lot.

I sure as hell hope they work this out quick smart before any more damage is done.

 

[Desi Van_83]

It must be. You look like Sh1t.
Just don't go thrusting a bolt through your neck or something.........

Thanks buddy, I'll keep it in mind.

supporting this team of ours has done nothing for my complexion.

 

[Saint Luke]

What's your reason then? And I swear to god if u say coincidence... Also I didn't say I went to medicle school I was just having a guess.

Also I have been reading up on muscle Inbalance and teams such as the Yankees and NYgiants have had to manage muscle Inbalance so it is possible

You have to accept that's a possibility. Eliminating realistic possibilities, no matter how improbable they may seem is a serious disservice to the truth. We don't know anything, we really shouldn't pretend that we do. It's a totally fruitless exercise.