2015 is THE most important year of Dimma's reign

[Grockadoc]

Read again, says "We finished" not "If we finish"
Like I said, if we get past the first week of finals then I think it's good enough
As far as I'm concerned we could finish 4th then lose in straight sets and I'd be ok with it

Got confused. You said 8th, and then referenced 2016, so my brain correlated 8th to 2015. XD

 

[TigerTime3]

Disagree. If we finish 8th, and make it into the second week of finals, it is good enough. Finals has been a pass mark the last 2 years, making it past the first week must be the pass mark for 2015.

Pass marks can't be awarded on such criteria IMO, it can only be from the following two questions:

1. Did we win the premiership this year?
2. If not, are we closer to winning a premiership soon?

Theoretically, we could have a lower finish but still feel confident about our premiership potential in the near future. And theoretically, we could win a final and actually be worse off in that regard. Therefore, a single final win is a flakey indicator, especially given the high degree of random variation inherent in a 22-man sport like the AFL.

It's "go" time IMO. Talk of "winning a final" is seeing the trees for the forest, or something like that.

Whether we finish 10th. Finish 8th. Finish 5th. Win 1 final. Finish 8th... It's all the same level and random fluctuations alone explain it. If we do make a Semi Final next year here is our 4-year form line:

2012: should have won 14-15, shat ourselves to 10 wins
2013: did win 15
2014: 12 wins, should have been 15
2015: 13-14 wins including an elimination final = ~15 wins again

To me, this looks like stagnation. How do we measure success? Holistically. The club is a team, the same way we don't sack Trent Cotchin when the on-field team fails.

Why are we pre-occupied with # of wins which are arbitrary single predictors of future success? It's a big team effort off-field these days. Totally changes the landscape for judging coaches IMO.

Its a prelim or bye bye Dimma... IMO. We are not a charity case that hands out 600k a season to a coach that is happy being an also ran.....

Its a prelim,,,, or do you think he needs more time than 6 preseasons ? am I missing something? #bringbackfrawleyatleasthegotustoaprelim

Maybe I'm going mad but I agree wholeheartedly with the essence of your opinion - we absolutely must be living, breathing, sleeping (*cough*) Top 4 and nothing less.

I am sure the players feel this way too. Their winning streak was like watching a pokies' player win a minor jackpot win and seeing their eyes light up before going straight back to the machines in hopes of the major win. Confidence was bred this year. I'm happy we should no longer be consistently mentally weak with the current group... which is why we should be Top 4 next year.

Overall, I'm dissatisfied with our last 2 trade/FA periods. Otherwise, I'm optimistic about the club as a whole. So unless the overall outlook of the club deteriorates significantly next year, I think Dimma should be safe too, as it's the best way to judge his performance in the context of a highly synchronised, holistic environment.

Otherwise by the same logic shouldn't we willingly trade Cotchin for the failures of the overall team?

 

[Grockadoc]

Pass marks can't be awarded on such criteria IMO, it can only be from the following two questions:

1. Did we win the premiership this year?
2. If not, are we closer to winning a premiership soon?

Theoretically, we could have a lower finish but still feel confident about our premiership potential in the near future. And theoretically, we could win a final and actually be worse off in that regard. Therefore, a single final win is a flakey indicator, especially given the high degree of random variation inherent in a 22-man sport like the AFL.

It's "go" time IMO. Talk of "winning a final" is seeing the trees for the forest, or something like that.

Whether we finish 10th. Finish 8th. Finish 5th. Win 1 final. Finish 8th... It's all the same level and random fluctuations alone explain it. If we do make a Semi Final next year here is our 4-year form line:

2012: should have won 14-15, shat ourselves to 10 wins
2013: did win 15
2014: 12 wins, should have been 15
2015: 13-14 wins including an elimination final = ~15 wins again

To me, this looks like stagnation. How do we measure success? Holistically. The club is a team, the same way we don't sack Trent Cotchin when the on-field team fails.

Why are we pre-occupied with # of wins which are arbitrary single predictors of future success? It's a big team effort off-field these days. Totally changes the landscape for judging coaches IMO.



Maybe I'm going mad but I agree wholeheartedly with the essence of your opinion - we absolutely must be living, breathing, sleeping (*cough*) Top 4 and nothing less.

I am sure the players feel this way too. Their winning streak was like watching a pokies' player win a minor jackpot win and seeing their eyes light up before going straight back to the machines in hopes of the major win. Confidence was bred this year. I'm happy we should no longer be consistently mentally weak with the current group.

Overall, I'm dissatisfied with our last 2 trade/FA periods. Otherwise, I'm optimistic about the club as a whole. Unless the overall outlook of the club deteriorates significantly next year, I think Dimma should be safe too, as it's the best way to judge his performance in the context of a highly synchronised, holistic environment.

The thing is, I was talking about a base pass mark. This year, when our aim was to make finals, and looked shot, I believed we were still on the right track as we missed 3 of our top 5 most important players structurally were missing.

It isn't black and white, but our pass mark should be to win a final. Obviously there are parameters that are attached such as an injury free run etc, but the goal should be the same. We can still have a successful season but not make the pass mark if that makes sense, as long as it can be justified as to why it wasn't met.