List Mgmt. 2015 LIST Discussion - trades, free agency etc

[BluesRule]

So,

- We have a massive injury list.
- We're losing a number of experienced, senior players to other clubs.
- Two, as much as four, ridiculously experienced players might retire.
- We have been totally anhilated on more than a number of occasions this year.
- Our percentage is disgraceful and we have had clearly more points scored against us than any other club.
- We were lucky to make it to the finals last year and our performance overall over 10+ years has been pretty bad.
- Add to that that a number of prominent commentators suggest that the quality of our list is extremely poor.

I know most people say we have a snowflake-in-hell chance of a Priority Pick, but geez, get the feeling we're not going to be that far from meeting the criteria.

For all the talk of the AFL hating us, I just can't see how a weak Carlton helps them, from a corporation's point of view.

And the AFL owe us as the sanctions we copped are far greater than what anybody else has copped before or after. The AFL made Carlton a basket case, sure we helped with some bad decisions made from a position of weakness, but the AFL need to make good.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

What the f was I doing last year? I can't remember us making the finals.

 

[BluesRule]

Did you have a problem when Chris Judd decided to do it?

Judd had a look at others, made the decision to join us, then left the clubs to sort out the details. Very elegant (and rewarding) and nth WCE and Carlton felt they got fair value

 

[Garth Vader]

And the AFL owe us as the sanctions we copped are far greater than what anybody else has copped before or after. The AFL made Carlton a basket case, sure we helped with some bad decisions made from a position of weakness, but the AFL need to make good.

IMO we made more than 'some' bad decisions, but yeah, take your point re: excessive punishment.

 

[Garth Vader]

What the f was I doing last year? I can't remember us making the finals.

Memory issues, might have been year before

 

[HBF]

Someone's whistling past the graveyard..........

Huh?

 

[bad setanta]

I won't actually be making the selections. I'm going on the premise that we will take both and if other teams big around this mark, then I have to assume their value is there. Draft time is the worst time for people talking as though opinion is fact.

 

[thylacine60]

Huh?

You're hoping like crap it doesn't happen.

 

[Keyza]

if we get rid of another 10-12 players again this year, then we have turned over 3/4 of our list for what? A couple of good players, some mediocre players and a couple of rank duds (although, I would say Tutt is good depth for the club going forward... Jones is a rank loss).

The thing that really bites for me is Thomas. Last year, he was good without being the great player we know he can be. But his recruitment was strictly a captain's call (as Teflon Tone likes to call them) by Malthouse. We could have not taken him and taken the compensation pick from Betts leaving and we would have had 2 first round picks 2 years ago now. This sort of s**t at the club has to end!

I still don't think that Kreuzer will go and he will re-sign with the club over the next week.

I hope you are right on Kreuzer.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Is there a problem?

 

[Matt72]

Yarran to Rich for 14ish
Hendo and 21 for 8ish and 28ish

3 8 14 28 etc etc (rice SOS)
I'd be inclined to take those picks to the draft and if Carlise or Aish fall into out lap re PSD so be it

We're going to draft 2 top 10 draft picks, one who is a gun CHB. The forward line will get a bonus with KJ spending time in the gym.

It could all change again if Menz goes back to SA (to the Crows.) We would expect a Dangerfield compo pick in return tho

The MK decision is a huge one IMO and if he does go wow we get a massive shot at 3 inside the top 10. I don't want him to go because we don't have ruck depth

Almost forgot the Bell trade talk also.......

Watson
Judd
Ellard
Yarran
Hendo
Warnock
Carrazzo

(Menz)
(Bell)
(Kruz)

Rookies??

Wow massive list turnover in 3 years

Edit: stuff it I'm over Menz as well
Adel compo (danger) pick - 13?

3 - 8 - 13 - 14 - 28 rice SOS

Menzel has done nothing and shown very little on supposedly the worst list of all time and he is worth a first round pick?

 

[feffs93]

Menzel has done nothing and shown very little on supposedly the worst list of all time and he is worth a first round pick?

He has had a poor and disappointing year. 21 years old, battled injury all season (knee, shoulder ect). He is still very young and a tad undersized, wouldnt be surprised if he goes under the knife in the offseason too. Seeing as its been a abysmal season for pretty much every player minus Murph, Cripps and Doc, id say definitely keep him on, give him a new fresh season to prove himself under a new coach. He is worth the risk.

 

[Matt72]

I agree feffs93. If we ditch everyone between 21 and 25 then we can guarantee another 10 years of garbage.
To paraphrase someone who posted earlier, players are very rarely as bad as disgruntled supporters make them out to be nor worth what people claim on the trade table.

 

[AB_Blue]

Menzel has done nothing and shown very little on supposedly the worst list of all time and he is worth a first round pick?

Yes....yes he is

Has plenty of talent

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Menzel has done nothing and shown very little on supposedly the worst list of all time and he is worth a first round pick?

Menzel & Aish have both shown about the same level, i would say boths value is a high to mid 2nd rounder

 

[Matt72]

Yes....yes he is

Has plenty of talent

So you're offloading him because you're altruistic? Seems sensible.
If all the players slated to be leaving/getting the ass were worth better teams first round picks then you'd imagine we'd be a pretty good team.

 

[Styxx]

Does the club try and take advantage of the future picks proviso?

Say Henderson, Menzel and a third rounder for their first rounder this year, first rounder next year and a later pick?

Banking on Geelong missing finals next year should net us two years of two top ten picks back to back? Worth it long term?

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Does the club try and take advantage of the future picks proviso?

Say Henderson, Menzel and a third rounder for their first rounder this year, first rounder next year and a later pick?

Banking on Geelong missing finals next year should net us two years of two top ten picks back to back? Worth it long term?

If Geelong end up with Henderson, Dangerfirld and Selwood i doubt they will miss the finals next year.

 

[astuart88]

Menzel has done nothing and shown very little on supposedly the worst list of all time and he is worth a first round pick?

Unfair to judge him based on a top talent being a part of the worst list of all time.
Much like great teams make bad players look good, horrible teams make great players look bad.

Pretty sure he's has a few niggles this year too. Would love to see him stick around and be the next Steve Johnson (minus the flog) in 3 years or so.

 

[Matt72]

Unfair to judge him based on a top talent being a part of the worst list of all time.
Much like great teams make bad players look good, horrible teams make great players look bad.

Pretty sure he's has a few niggles this year too. Would love to see him stick around and be the next Steve Johnson (minus the flog) in 3 years or so.

Sorry you missed my point.
I like him but think he is limited at this stage and think ditching him would be a mistake. Others here are saying he is rubbish, doesn't try, unfulfilled talent, etc and we should give him the ass but another club will pay over the odds on him. I mean they have TVs in Adelaide right and Foxtel? I'm pretty sure they're seeing the same footage we see.

 

[mikeythemoocow]

Yep, we should be pushing hard for picks in next years draft.

 

[astuart88]

Sorry you missed my point.
I like him but think he is limited at this stage and think ditching him would be a mistake. Others here are saying he is rubbish, doesn't try, unfulfilled talent, etc and we should give him the ass but another club will pay over the odds on him. I mean they have TVs in Adelaide right and Foxtel? I'm pretty sure they're seeing the same footage we see.

Yeah sorry, fair call - I did miss your point.

Definitely think we should keep him on. It honestly wouldn't surprise me if another club coughed up a first rounder for him though. Everybody knows that he has the talent, but perhaps the environment is lacking.

 

[P_Crippy]

Unfair to judge him based on a top talent being a part of the worst list of all time.
Much like great teams make bad players look good, horrible teams make great players look bad.

Pretty sure he's has a few niggles this year too. Would love to see him stick around and be the next Steve Johnson (minus the flog) in 3 years or so.

Geezuss!! How good must Cripps be?

 

[astuart88]

Geezuss!! How good must Cripps be?

Crippa is an exceptional talent who can't be considered on the same plane as the rest of us mere mortals.

 

[Blue Heart]

A lot of picks in this draft would be great ... but we must hold on to a strong core of senior players to help ease the new draftees into the system.

As Melb. proved under Neeld, you just can't delist all of the experienced players and have a list just full of kids and expect the young players to thrive and improve in the short term.

We need as supporters to be patient with the rebuild as ONE draft is not going to cure all of our problems. The club really needs 3 or 4 or even 5 years were we get the draft right ... remember no quick fixes this time round.