List Mgmt. 2015 LIST Discussion - trades, free agency etc

[LordLucifer]

We shouldn't gut the place for sure. But that doesn't mean we can't lose one of them if it means we gain 2 or 3 younger guns in exchange.

There is a middle ground between keep all our stars or trade all of them. We can afford to trade a few.

There is no other way to get the talent we need. We go half arsed about it, and by the time Murph and co are retiring, they leave behind a list that isn't good enough for the next decade.

We need to make hard calls to get the young talent in that we need, that are all largely around the same under 24 age bracket. Once in place, phase two is pushing that list up the ladder. Phase three is once up the ladder, attract and recruit free agents.

A lot of very good comments there that I thoroughly agree with.

We cannot completely gut the list immediately, that has already been done over the past two years. However, we need to systematically work through the players who are deemed not up to it first of all and then replace them with better credentialed alternatives. This may see 6-7 places change at the end of the season and depending on trades, possibly bring in some replacements along the way.

Some players will see out their current contracts and then be cut, it may be 2 or 3 years away but it will happen. The salary cap constraints will determine how that plays out.

If you look at this as being a 3-year project, then you would have to expect around 24-players in total to be changed over, approx. 8 per annum which is, if you look back at the past couple of years, about the average amongst all of the clubs anyway.

I'm all for moving on the majority of the players who are 25years or older as they come up for renewal. Trade who you can, delist those who are not tradeable. It's going to be a fun exercise and one that I'm genuinely excited about. There is nothing better to get the hopes & anticipation of the fans up & going than an injection of quality youth.

 

[Red Bull]

Do the math as see what you come up with and what results it may net you.

It's all fine sprouting off in all directions but you may find that the practice is much harder than the theory.............I mean, it always is

You are right , fixing up the mess our list has been left in will be no easy task .

I'm backing SOS ... we have too

 

[ESKIE]

Hendo won't go anywhere IMO

 

[LordLucifer]

I'm backing SOS ... we have too

Heaven help us if he isn't able to deliver on this ..............

 

[Stig O'Hara]

Easy enough to draft youth........s**t, these fellas can surely run, jump, mark, kick and handball.

Have to develop them. We just don't do that.

First rounders seem to be the be all.........and look at our last 4/5 years, got nothing out of them and the later picks are out on their own.

 

[Malifice]

A lot of very good comments there that I thoroughly agree with.

We cannot completely gut the list immediately, that has already been done over the past two years. However, we need to systematically work through the players who are deemed not up to it first of all and then replace them with better credentialed alternatives. This may see 6-7 places change at the end of the season and depending on trades, possibly bring in some replacements along the way.

Some players will see out their current contracts and then be cut, it may be 2 or 3 years away but it will happen. The salary cap constraints will determine how that plays out.

If you look at this as being a 3-year project, then you would have to expect around 24-players in total to be changed over, approx. 8 per annum which is, if you look back at the past couple of years, about the average amongst all of the clubs anyway.

I'm all for moving on the majority of the players who are 25years or older as they come up for renewal. Trade who you can, delist those who are not tradeable. It's going to be a fun exercise and one that I'm genuinely excited about. There is nothing better to get the hopes & anticipation of the fans up & going than an injection of quality youth.

I'm mindful that we don't do a melbourne and cut players for the sake of cutting them. There needs to be a solid core of experience throughout the rebuild.

We also need to avoid the bottom out mentality. We need to to into every game with the best possible side and do everything we can to win games. Not tank and never just blood kids for the sake of it.

We need to foster a professional and winning environment, and will need to use the win/loss ratio as the best mechanism for determining where the list is at. Also, we want to avoid exposing the kids too early. Development is vital and rushing them into te side is detrimental to that development.

Make them hungry in the twos. Make them earn that spot in the seniors and then make them fight to keep it, in a side that is focussed on winning at all costs. That's the culture we want. Constantly focussed on winning, improving and never taking a backwards step. Never gifting games and being ruthless in the pursuit of excellence.

 

[HARKER]

You are right , fixing up the mess our list has been left in will be no easy task .

I'm backing SOS ... we have too

Fair enough and I wish all the boys well.............Why not?

 

[LordLucifer]

Easy enough to draft in youth........s**t, these fellas can surely run, jump, mark, kick and handball.

Have to develop them.

We just don't do that.

The club has to draft players that have certain non-negotiable criteria like :

1. can kick accurately off both feet
2. can mark strongly overhead
3. does all of the 1%ers
4. is team orientated
5. has some mongrel
6. can handball accurately by both hands
7. can follow instructions implicitly
8. not afraid to put the body on the line when needed
9. never ever gives up & hates losing
10. will always run to support a team-mate at all times, especially when under physical intimidation

Bringing players into the club with those traits will make it far easier to develop them individually as well as a group.

This will take time to achieve, but it's going to be great to watch and even better to see the finished product.

I should point out, the reason that I'm so pleased about this announcement regarding rebuilding the list from the ground up is that I have been calling for this to happen for years, we've refused to do anything thoroughly for many years. It's been like watching a surgeon put a bandaid on a severed artery, it's never going to work for long.

 

[HARKER]

Easy enough to draft youth........s**t, these fellas can surely run, jump, mark, kick and handball.

Have to develop them. We just don't do that.

First rounders seem to be the be all.........and look at our last 4/5 years, got nothing out of them and the later picks are out on their own.

I think that will make for a really good study when we have our heads back in place.

We know that our development program (what development program?) was abysmal under Ratten.

From what I've seen the connection between the 2's and the seniors has become a lot closer in Malthouse's tenure..........Good enough though.........?????

 

[LordLucifer]

I'm mindful that we don't do a melbourne and cut players for the sake of cutting them. There needs to be a solid core of experience throughout the rebuild.

We also need to avoid the bottom out mentality. We need to to into every game with the best possible side and do everything we can to win games. Not tank and never just blood kids for the sake of it.

We need to foster a professional and winning environment, and will need to use the win/loss ratio as the best mechanism for determining where the list is at. Also, we want to avoid exposing the kids too early. Development is vital and rushing them into te side is detrimental to that development.

Make them hungry in the twos. Make them earn that spot in the seniors and then make them fight to keep it, in a side that is focussed on winning at all costs. That's the culture we want. Constantly focussed on winning, improving and never taking a backwards step. Never gifting games and being ruthless in the pursuit of excellence.

Agree on a lot of that too but don't want to get too hung up on the experience argument. The reason being that we have kept falling for the trap of keeping older players who weren't up to it purely on the basis of them supposedly having experience.

Young players can work together and form new bonds, leaders will emerge from within and they will set their own parameters of acceptable onfield performance. Besides, I reckon Judd will now go around again plus there will a few others like Walker, Henderson & Yarran to help him out in that department.

 

[fnm_just a man]

The CFC have lit the fire and now all the moths are coming.............get rid of him.......and him.........and him also...........doesn't matter.........pick 20.....30.....whatever.........just take it................who cares for the draft quality or players involved.............we want picks......lots of numbers.

Seems that many will be disappointed when the dust settles.

To be fair, many on here and elsewhere were calling for this approach long before the club decided to announce it. In reality, this has been the process the last two seasons to a lesser degree. My guess is they've come to the realisation that the situation is worse than they anticipated, and so have decided to take a slightly more extreme approach - exactly what that means is unknown at this point, but I suspect at least one of our "guns" will be up for trade.

It's important to remember that there is no approach that is guaranteed to work, there is no single decision that is guaranteed to work, removing or adding any individual on-field or off-field is not guaranteed to work... All you can do is have a plan in place that you think will succeed, and work together to achieve that plan.

I, along with many others, have been very critical of the club's decisions in the past. We all have our own ideas on what we think is the best approach for the club to take. At long last, I feel like the club is aligned with my own ideas, so I have to be content with that progression. Does it mean we're guaranteed success? No. Do I think it gives us the best shot? Yep... Are there other decisions that need to be made outside of the simple trade x for draft pick y or player y for the team to improve? Absolutely.

Undoubtedly there will be significant pain, but it feels like the first time there is a plan in place, with almost everyone off-field on board. Where it takes us, we'll know in about 5 years... But it feels nice to have faith in most of those making the big decisions, for me anyway.

 

[fnm_just a man]

Which is the exact reason we can't trade out Gibbs or Murphy as some people suggested

Not quite ... It's not that black and white ... We could potentially recruit players in the Daniel Cross mould. Lord knows we need on-field leadership. Hypothetically, we could trade out Gibbs and Murph using the value received on young guns and replace them with cheaper, proven professionals and leaders who are recruited under the strict condition that they have an important role to play in the development of our young players. Alternatively, we may even be lucky enough to recruit someone or two, young enough to lead from the outset.

 

[HARKER]

To be fair, many on here and elsewhere were calling for this approach long before the club decided to announce it. In reality, this has been the process the last two seasons to a lesser degree. My guess is they've come to the realisation that the situation is worse than they anticipated, and so have decided to take a slightly more extreme approach - exactly what that means is unknown at this point, but I suspect at least one of our "guns" will be up for trade.

It's important to remember that there is no approach that is guaranteed to work, there is no single decision that is guaranteed to work, removing or adding any individual on-field or off-field is not guaranteed to work... All you can do is have a plan in place that you think will succeed, and work together to achieve that plan.

I, along with many others, have been very critical of the club's decisions in the past. We all have our own ideas on what we think is the best approach for the club to take. At long last, I feel like the club is aligned with my own ideas, so I have to be content with that progression. Does it mean we're guaranteed success? No. Do I think it gives us the best shot? Yep... Are there other decisions that need to be made outside of the simple trade x for draft pick y or player y for the team to improve? Absolutely.

Undoubtedly there will be significant pain, but it feels like the first time there is a plan in place, with almost everyone off-field on board. Where it takes us, we'll know in about 5 years... But it feels nice to have faith in most of those making the big decisions, for me anyway.

To be fair to what? Who? Internet warriors?

Do you know who we've had open to trade in the past couple of years but the interest levels and the offers didn't come up to scratch?

The proof will be in the pudding and if favourable trades don't come about, do we take the loss just to be seen to be doing something?
Is that what we've come to? I think not. I'll take on all the big balls talk for now but I'm not impressed...............it's all in the pudding.

 

[Malifice]

Agree on a lot of that too but don't want to get too hung up on the experience argument. The reason being that we have kept falling for the trap of keeping older players who weren't up to it purely on the basis of them supposedly having experience.

Young players can work together and form new bonds, leaders will emerge from within and they will set their own parameters of acceptable onfield performance. Besides, I reckon Judd will now go around again plus there will a few others like Walker, Henderson & Yarran to help him out in that department.

Yeah but if we cut too many too soon, we will be forced to play the kids too soon, instead of making them earn spots in the side. The end result will be an acceptance of mediocrity in the vein of Melbourne.

It's bad development. Instead of cutting senior players for the sake of it, we should have junior players forcing them out on form.

Development is just as vital as talent spotting and recruiting. If the cuts are too deep we risk wounding the side as a whole.

 

[fnm_just a man]

To be fair to what? Who? Internet warriors?

Do you know who we've had open to trade in the past couple of years but the interest levels and the offers didn't come up to scratch?

The proof will be in the pudding and if favourable trades don't come about, do we take the loss just to be seen to be doing something?
Is that what we've come to? I think not. I'll take on all the big balls talk for now but I'm not impressed...............it's all in the pudding.

Well you did refer to everyone who is supportive of the approach being put forward by the club as moths to a flame ... Bit disrespectful in suggesting that all in favour are simply being hoodwinked by a sales type pitch, when others on here have been talking it up longer than the club.

I didn't really see the point in the Club announcing it at all to be honest, for that very reason that it might create an expectation among other clubs that they might receive a player on the cheap ... On the flipside, it could create a competitive market for one of our player's services ... Or it might have no ramifications whatsoever ... Time will tell.

 

[HARKER]

Well you did refer to everyone who is supportive of the approach being put forward by the club as moths to a flame ... Bit disrespectful in suggesting that all in favour are simply being hoodwinked by a sales type pitch, when others on here have been talking it up longer than the club.

I didn't really see the point in the Club announcing it at all to be honest, for that very reason that it might create an expectation among other clubs that they might receive a player on the cheap ... On the flipside, it could create a competitive market for one of our player's services ... Or it might have no ramifications whatsoever ... Time will tell.

Just in a bad mood.............forgive me.

Just saying that it's not as easy as typing something out on a forum. Trades aren't easy and if contracted players don't want to go...........they don't go

 

[Red Bull]

Just in a bad mood.............forgive me.

Just saying that it's not as easy as typing something out on a forum. Trades aren't easy and if contracted players don't want to go...........they don't go

You are forgiven

 

[fnm_just a man]

Just in a bad mood.............forgive me.

Just saying that it's not as easy as typing something out on a forum. Trades aren't easy and if contracted players don't want to go...........they don't go

That was me about 6 days ago, to the hour!

It's not going to be easy, you're right. There are so many variables that come into play. You don't often hear of players standing firm when a club is keen to trade them though ... or do you? I can't remember any off the top of my head, but at the same time, it's something that really should be, and probably is, dealt with in-house.

Not everyone here is going to agree on the direction, or the progress, or the result (well... maybe the result). That's a given. Generally though, I think we're having pretty mature, sensible discussions on what is a volatile topic.

 

[Libba21]

Sorry to intrude just wondering who is on the chopping block at the end if the season.

 

[Mister Carlton]

Get in line.

 

[Wickzki]

I read Hendo is a pretty handy golfer , as in low single figure handicap.

With his form he might want to try the PGA tour next.

 

[Malifice]

Sorry to intrude just wondering who is on the chopping block at the end if the season.

Literally everyone over the age of 23.

No reasonable offer refused.

 

[ESKIE]

Freakin garage sale, with a sausage sizzle

 

[Libba21]

Literally everyone over the age of 23.

No reasonable offer refused.

So it wouldn't be out of the question to trade Walker?

 

[Wickzki]

Freakin garage sale, with a sausage sizzle

You might be onto something... If we include the alcoholic beverages we may actually get something of value in return.