2015 Non-Crows AFL Discussion - Pt. 1

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Oct 9, 2004
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He didn't seem too concerned about the AFL audited numbers, but said he has 65,000 "members" on the list, hoping to expand that to 70, 80 and eventually 100 - 200,000 members. You would think the only way to grow the membership list to those numbers with a 55,000 seat stadium is going to be outside the AFL audit numbers.
He stopped at 80 - didn't say 100 or 200 000 members.
 
Mar 7, 2012
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You see your backing off now arnt you. A poster said Fages was the best CEO in the AFL. I asked him to tell me what he has done to prove that and why did he think Fages was better than proven top CEOs like the Hawks etc and it was stupid to say that. You then jumped in basically saying that me not agreeing he is the best CEO called into question my support for the club. So for you to feel the need to challange me on it you must think he is the best CEO no? Or did you just jump in not knowing what you were going on about?
No, I challenged you to back up your rant before the "best CEO" argument.

I did not make that statement so I'm not the one that has to exoand. That would be putting words in another person's mouth. But that person has responded.

But you still have not backed up your rant.

Several valuable membership categories involving real people, not pets, have been identified which don't get counted. But do get contact details so the club can engage with these fans. You have failed to acknowledge these in your responses.

You claim that 1300 less members is a failure. I challenged you to provide evidence of this. Is it part of a natural membership cycle or is it a significant drop? If you contend it's significant the onus is on you to prove this. Otherwise you are full of s**t and making stuff up.

Then you argument shifted to the hypothetical "What if membership revenue drops?"

You are calling Fagan a failure based on no evidence at all and hypotheticals in the future. Surely, this baseless accusation is disrespectful and card worthy.

All evidence has shown Fagan to be a good operator, moving the club un the right direction.

Just admit you have not thought tjis through properly and jog on. Add yourself to the list of non-renewed members, no loss there.
 
Aug 17, 2007
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AFL audits count memberships at packages that cost at least $50 and have a ticket to at least one match.

Perhaps having a ticket to an interstate game counts if it is part of your interstate package with the Crows? Would think that it should by that statement. Unless there is some caveat that it must be a home game ticket that went unsaid/reported in Fagan's comments.

I reckon the bulk of the uncounted membership packages are the Bronze ones. No ticket attached and not all of these are on the wait list. Could also be quite a few of the kiddies $20 memberships as well. Then of course the much maligned Pet memberships.


A decrease (less than 2%) in membership given we went two years without Finals and sacked a coach that was loved by many rank and file members probably is not that bad a result. Especially when you consider the 3000 wait list to get an 11 game membership according to Fagan.

Of course such a suggestion could be seen as sugar coating in the order of suggesting the worst crowd at AO this year was actually the fifth best crowd GWS have ever played in front of.
 
Nov 1, 2012
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Hard to criticise the results, if you wanted to focus on the counter you'd point out that the uplift in membership is probably down to AO not our admin, or theirs. Both clubs flying since the move.

You might also question the wisdom of reducing 11 game memberships, is it actually a good idea?

But in truth the results are positive and the messaging is clear and coherent.

Could be a lot worse
 
I reckon the bulk of the uncounted membership packages are the Bronze ones. No ticket attached and not all of these are on the wait list. Could also be quite a few of the kiddies $20 memberships as well. Then of course the much maligned Pet memberships.


A decrease (less than 2%) in membership given we went two years without Finals and sacked a coach that was loved by many rank and file members probably is not that bad a result. Especially when you consider the 3000 wait list to get an 11 game membership according to Fagan.

Of course such a suggestion could be seen as sugar coating in the order of suggesting the worst crowd at AO this year was actually the fifth best crowd GWS have ever played in front of.

I won't pretend to know the membership options available to those in South Australia. I only ever worried about what I could get. I could swear the pet counting thing stopped last year or the year before. I don't think that is new this time around.

Okay--I must have read something similar to this article sometime this year, so I stand corrected on pets, I guess they did count in 2014.

Interestingly though--according to THIS article, I should be counted in the official role as it states:

The league has introduced rules about what constitutes legitimate membership.
Members must invest more than $50; give name and contact information and receive a membership pack. Pets are no longer allowed to be signed up.
Included in figures are non-access members, who sign up for packages which do not grant entry to games.


The Adelaide clubs have done much of the heavy lifting this year, with fans giving the move to Adelaide Oval a massive tick.
Port Adelaide’s membership has grown a whopping 23 per cent to more than 60,000 and just a few thousand shy of Adelaide’s mark of 62,676.

The Crows membership figure has also increased by more than 15 per cent.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/afl-membership-figures-collingwood-biggest-club-but-gap-closing-fast/story-fni5f9jb-1227405778242?sv=541eac24fa1db54175c14892bc26bf0d



So what changed from June 19th til today? Lot of funny business going on here me thinks. ;)
 
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Jun 6, 2010
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I won't pretend to know the membership options available to those in South Australia. I only ever worried about what I could get. I could swear the pet counting thing stopped last year or the year before. I don't think that is new this time around.

Okay--I must have read something similar to this article sometime this year, so I stand corrected on pets, I guess they did count in 2014.

Interestingly though--according to THIS article, I should be counted in the official role as it states:

The league has introduced rules about what constitutes legitimate membership.
Members must invest more than $50; give name and contact information and receive a membership pack. Pets are no longer allowed to be signed up.
Included in figures are non-access members, who sign up for packages which do not grant entry to games.


The Adelaide clubs have done much of the heavy lifting this year, with fans giving the move to Adelaide Oval a massive tick.

Port Adelaide’s membership has grown a whopping 23 per cent to more than 60,000 and just a few thousand shy of Adelaide’s mark of 62,676.

The Crows membership figure has also increased by more than 15 per cent.


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/afl-membership-figures-collingwood-biggest-club-but-gap-closing-fast/story-fni5f9jb-1227405778242?sv=541eac24fa1db54175c14892bc26bf0d



So what changed from June 19th til today? Lot of funny business going on here me thinks. ;)

I think what's come out of this whole debate is perhaps the AFL need to be more open and transparent on these figures. Instead of having a one size fits all approach in a competitive lader they should break down each memberships into category groups. As Fagen said yesterday, it means nothing because each club have different models that work for them. Some clubs may classify season tickets as 3 x 3 game memberships and 1 x 2 game memberships and sell it as 4 memberships for example. The Melbourne market with two half empty stadiums nearly every match would be a lot different to what states who have full stadiums every match (or nearly if you are Port)
 
I think what's come out of this whole debate is perhaps the AFL need to be more open and transparent on these figures. Instead of having a one size fits all approach in a competitive lader they should break down each memberships into category groups. As Fagen said yesterday, it means nothing because each club have different models that work for them. Some clubs may classify season tickets as 3 x 3 game memberships and 1 x 2 game memberships and sell it as 4 memberships for example. The Melbourne market with two half empty stadiums nearly every match would be a lot different to what states who have full stadiums every match (or nearly if you are Port)

So is this a case of the local Adelaide writer being completely incorrect and Fagen not realizing it when he issued comments? Seems to me that what Fagen responded to and what was written out of Melbourne earlier this summer/winter are at complete odds? Now I am confused.

Local paper says I don't count--Melbourne paper says I do. o_O
 
Jun 6, 2010
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So is this a case of the local Adelaide writer being completely incorrect and Fagen not realizing it when he issued comments? Seems to me that what Fagen responded to and what was written out of Melbourne earlier this summer/winter are at complete odds? Now I am confused.

Local paper says I don't count--Melbourne paper says I do. o_O

Fagen says its not reflective of true revenue generated through memberships
 

AFC3000

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 20, 2011
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Carol Crow who finds herself living/working in the United States pays for a global membership that costs $155 and allows her access to live streaming, etc... Her membership is not "recognized" since the global membership the Crows offer doesn't include one ticket to one game. (and why would it include a ticket?)

Is it confirmed that the international live streaming memberships aren't counted?

IMO, these types of memberships should be seen as being just as valuable, if not more, than ticketed memberships.
It's where the value lies for the broadcasters who shell out billions for the rights.
 
Mar 23, 2008
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Exactly

I can't believe we are arguing with each other about something so ridiculous.

We now have 20,000 NEW Members than we did 2 years ago (65,000 now to 45,436 in 2013).

This is the stuff that is important, so what if there are non game, international memberships etc, who says that my $400 11 game membership is more important than a bloke who lives in Finland and pays his $125 to watch every Crows game live at 3am each weekend. Its still bloody money coming into the AFC!!!
It's because Rucci has purposely misinterpreted the situation, hiding behind the final AFL-audited number. The audited number means pretty much s**t all, considering one 11 game membership is approx 3, 3game memberships, but each is counted as a member.

I'd like to see the breakdown on how many 3 game members, one game members, 11 game members…any members who are included in the final tally. Analysis of these, and of the revenue gained through membership will give everyone the correct picture, not Rucci's idiocies.


But job well don Rucci in fooling most of the PAP supporters, and alarmingly, some of the Crows supporters. You large campaigner.
 
Sep 16, 2005
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GO YOU CROW BOYS
Why is it pet memberships don't count?
They might pay as much money as American Crow.
They might see stuff on TV as much as he does.
They go to as many games.. ;)

Semi-serious here - if we count the membership revenue and home ground attendances as what is really important.. bring on the pets I say! (esp rich people's pets!)

Now - if there is a direct correlation from 'membership' to other meaningful activity that benefits the club (merchandise sales?) then there could be an argument why they are not important.

Then again.. some people make their pets wear weird s**t....
 
Mar 23, 2008
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I agree that it certainly looks like the AFL is trying to thin out the membership ranks of teams like Adelaide so as not to embarrass its Victorian clubs. I also agree that it appears the footy writer blew the real story which you described, to go for the low hanging rivalry fruit.

You are 100% dead on right in my mind.
Perfectly put.
 

treeman

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 19, 2005
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Just curious out of this whole membership debate.

What did everyone think of Mark Bickley's analogy to comparing the two memberships:
For those that didn't hear it.

Take a Cafe as an analogy to this whole situation.
One customer comes in spends the whole night there.
He/she buys entree' main, desert, coffee, biscuits a bottle of wine the works. and spends upwards of $150. - That being the Crows Model.
(And I think he was referring to the fact that this customer does it on a regular basis but he didn't mention this at first)
The other customer comes in as a group of 4. They do buy their entree' and main course but don't go all out, maybe they have a bottle between them and have a great night and then can go out and tell friends about their great night. - That being the Port Model.
(I don't think he mentioned how much that group spent. Maybe he said they spend $150 too I'm not sure)

The analogy didn't feel right to me.
 
Nov 24, 2007
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Then again.. some people make their pets wear weird s**t....

I'll say it again, if the club's pet membership came with a pet guernsey, Chico would have one and she'd be the most bad-ass shih-tzu at the park.

Just curious out of this whole membership debate.

What did everyone think of Mark Bickley's analogy to comparing the two memberships:
For those that didn't hear it.

Take a Cafe as an analogy to this whole situation.
One customer comes in spends the whole night there.
He/she buys entree' main, desert, coffee, biscuits a bottle of wine the works. and spends upwards of $150. - That being the Crows Model.
(And I think he was referring to the fact that this customer does it on a regular basis but he didn't mention this at first)
The other customer comes in as a group of 4. They do buy their entree' and main course but don't go all out, maybe they have a bottle between them and have a great night and then can go out and tell friends about their great night. - That being the Port Model.
(I don't think he mentioned how much that group spent. Maybe he said they spend $150 too I'm not sure)

The analogy didn't feel right to me.

Yeah, the Port model is really more like The other customer comes in as a group of 4. They're loud and obnoxious and smelly, they buy a bowl of wedges and start sinking West End Draught and Woodstock in cans. They make a lot of noise and pick fights and swear loudly and ruin it for everyone else. Then they go home and talk about how great a time they had.
 

Tex Support

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Oct 17, 2012
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Be a tough choice for the old Birdman.

He's just as close to Goody as he is Roo I believe.

Bidding war?
 
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