2015 Pre-Season (All news, press conferences, training reports)

[carnthemlions]

I can't see NEAFL ever providing the standards of footy you'll see in the WAFL, SANFL, VFL or VFA where footy is lived and breathed by all. The boys I spoke to on Saturday said they expect a fair improvement compared to last year though, because "We won't have very many top up players" this year.
We were shocking last year.

GC might actually win a game as well. That should help.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

Clearly the standard is not at WAFL, SANFL or AFL level but it's not as if our Reserves have been beating up on teams week after week (in recent times), in fact, to the contrary. I understand the argument about our players needing a higher level of competition, but frankly the first priority is for them to show they are up to the standard the coaches require of them and from there to push for senior selection. This is not a criticism of any one player, but last year one of the few ressies players who seemed to perform at the required level consistently was ZOB and he was probably entitled to feel a bit aggrieved that he wasn't rewarded with more senior selection. If we don't have as many top up players this year then the pressure will rightly be on the senior listed players and from that we will have a better idea of who is up to it and who isn't.

 

[jackess]

Clearly the standard is not at WAFL, SANFL or AFL level but it's not as if our Reserves have been beating up on teams week after week (in recent times), in fact, to the contrary. I understand the argument about our players needing a higher level of competition, but frankly the first priority is for them to show they are up to the standard the coaches require of them and from there to push for senior selection. This is not a criticism of any one player, but last year one of the few ressies players who seemed to perform at the required level consistently was ZOB and he was probably entitled to feel a bit aggrieved that he wasn't rewarded with more senior selection. If we don't have as many top up players this year then the pressure will rightly be on the senior listed players and from that we will have a better idea of who is up to it and who isn't.

It's more to do with developing the kids. You improve your game quicker playing in a higher standard competition. It can stunt their development to have draftees not ready for seniors dominating in the reserves.

 

[Eons]

I got a lot better at golf playing with better players. When I was playing against people who I would always beat it made me complacent to some extent. When I started playing with a few pros and scratch players it took my game to another level. Footy is no different.

 

[whatboutbob]

It's more to do with developing the kids. You improve your game quicker playing in a higher standard competition. It can stunt their development to have draftees not ready for seniors dominating in the reserves.

Which of our ressies players dominated last year?

 

[jackess]

Which of our ressies players dominated last year?

A lot of our first and second year players rack up big numbers 30+ possessions and then there are guys like Cornelius who found it way too easy.

Last year I can remember Robbo, Cutler and ZoB all finding it pretty easy.

 

[whatboutbob]

A lot of our first and second year players rack up big numbers 30+ possessions and then there are guys like Cornelius who found it way too easy.

Last year I can remember Robbo, Cutler and ZoB all finding it pretty easy.

Sorry, but I disagree with most of that. I think you've bought into the BF group-think of folks who don't attend the games and just look at the stats.

ZoB had some good games, often got quite a bit of it, but didn't do much with it. High possies doesn't necessarily mean a good game.

Robbo consistently takes too long to make decisions and far too often tries to take on players and gets pinged.

Cutler similarly has plenty to work on in his game, though he's probably closer to being ready for a senior gig IMO.

Ace probably came closest to 'too good for ressies, not good enough for seniors', but that wasn't last year and the quality of the comp has improved since then, while the quality of Lions fwd opportunities has dropped, so it'd be interesting to see how he would've gone more recently.

I'm not actually defending the quality of the comp though. I'm bucking against the oft quoted "not good enough for the kids to learn in" line that gets trotted out semi-regularly. Yeah, ideally the quality of the comp would be higher, but when the kids trotting around the ressies clearly have deficiencies in their game I don't think we can blame the comp. I think the reality of the last few years is our depth just hasn't been good enough for our reserves players to have pushed for a senior spot. I think, thankfully, that's on the improve.

 

[James North]

Have observed the same thing as above at ressies games.

Nobody destroying at NEAFL level to the point that they must bust into the seniors.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

It's more to do with developing the kids. You improve your game quicker playing in a higher standard competition. It can stunt their development to have draftees not ready for seniors dominating in the reserves.

My main point was they aren't dominating in the reserves. When they do we may have a problem.

 

[jjami15]

I got a lot better at golf playing with better players. When I was playing against people who I would always beat it made me complacent to some extent. When I started playing with a few pros and scratch players it took my game to another level. Footy is no different.

I agree with your sentiments, i moved clubs as a juniour to a tougher league and better players and made great improvements in my game. This is why i think they played the younger players last year to rapidly improve their development. I understand the clubs perception is solidifying the team with others knowing how others and the like but i really hope that Cutler and N Robbo get at least double digit amount of games with the big league to further this development

 

[winged1]

My main point was they aren't dominating in the reserves. When they do we may have a problem.

A good problem. But also a self rectifying problem, if we are stronger vis a vis the competition is stronger. What is good for us is, by definition, good for the competition.

OMFG we are the Collingwood of the NEAFL.

 

[whatboutbob]

...i really hope that Cutler and N Robbo get at least double digit amount of games with the big league to further this development

I think a lot will depend on injuries. In that regard I'm kinda hoping they only get maybe 6 games each this year. Enough for them to really get a taste for it, kill it next pre-season and smash their way into the senior side.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

I think a lot will depend on injuries. In that regard I'm kinda hoping they only get maybe 6 games each this year. Enough for them to really get a taste for it, kill it next pre-season and smash their way into the senior side.

I would agree with you on Robbo because if he gets more than a handful of games then it will probably mean we will have had injury worries within the midfield group. Cutler I think is different. He is pitted against Lester, Paps and maybe Bewick/Adcock for that running half back/wing role and he might just tip them out at some stage on ability and performance.

 

[whatboutbob]

I would agree with you on Robbo because if he gets more than a handful of games then it will probably mean we will have had injury worries within the midfield group. Cutler I think is different. He is pitted against Lester, Paps and maybe Bewick/Adcock for that running half back/wing role and he might just tip them out at some stage on ability and performance.

Fair point.

 

[POBT]

IIRC, last season we played about half our games against the reserves of the other 3 AFL clubs. Given there are lots of footy people who pine for a national AFL Reserves competition, we're not in a bad spot. Every second week, we get to go up against a club whose players are professionally prepared, have talent and are desperate to make a career out of footy.

Moreover, we didn't exactly cover ourselves in glory last year. And the Suns didn't win a game. Based purely on results, it was a fairly competitive league. It is hard to blame the standard of competition for any lack of development when the opposition was mostly better performed than us.

 

[The Golfing Lion]

I got a lot better at golf playing with better players. When I was playing against people who I would always beat it made me complacent to some extent. When I started playing with a few pros and scratch players it took my game to another level. Footy is no different.

What level did you get to Eons? Should I be worried?

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

What level did you get to Eons? Should I be worried?

He speaks in the past tense - probably eons ago.

 

[SizeMatters]

Karnezis was a step above... never got a game because of Voss...
As said above we play every second week against an AFL reserves team... I can't think of any other teams in the AFL (except GCS, GWS and Swans) whose reserves team gets this opportunity. Hasn't stopped the Swans from developing young players nor did the affect the young Bears players such as Voss, Ashcroft, Aker in their development as 17 year olds in a reserves comp far poorer than todays.

 

[Quigley]

Voss gave Karnezis games early when he probably didn't deserve them.

I assume in his last year he had made it clear he was leaving and so they gave games to guys they hoped would stick around.

 

[Skoob]

GC might actually win a game as well. That should help.

It would certainly provide some incentive.

 

[a mayes ing]

Voss gave Karnezis games early when he probably didn't deserve them.

I assume in his last year he had made it clear he was leaving and so they gave games to guys they hoped would stick around.

Thought it was because he couldn't run defensively and the NEAFL coaches had to pretty much yell to him from the sidelines where to run.

 

[Skoob]

Karnezis was a step above... never got a game because of Voss...
As said above we play every second week against an AFL reserves team... I can't think of any other teams in the AFL (except GCS, GWS and Swans) whose reserves team gets this opportunity. Hasn't stopped the Swans from developing young players nor did the affect the young Bears players such as Voss, Ashcroft, Aker in their development as 17 year olds in a reserves comp far poorer than todays.

Let's not start this again. Opinions are just that, but I'm pretty sure Karnezis didn't get games because of Karnezis, not Voss. Is Buckley to blame for him not getting games last year either?

 

[dlanod]

Let's not start this again. Opinions are just that, but I'm pretty sure Karnezis didn't get games because of Karnezis, not Voss. Is Buckley to blame for him not getting games last year either?

Same point I was going to make. Karnezis has played under multiple coaches and has gotten fewer games under Buckley than under Voss.

 

[Skoob]

It's more to do with developing the kids. You improve your game quicker playing in a higher standard competition. It can stunt their development to have draftees not ready for seniors dominating in the reserves.

I agree with the premise that the better the comp/opposition, the better the development. Unfortunately, there weren't really many "dominating". Of the better performers in NEAFL games for us, most, if not all were senior seniors; Lisle (kicked a few bags), Bewick, Polks, Lester. ZOB did have some pretty good games too, but he's hardly a kid either.
I think the bigger influence for the Lions were the unfortunate number of injuries, forcing a large number of 'top up' players. Some of those have good games too, but the more senior players playing along side the kids, the better.

 

[Skoob]

Same point I was going to make. Karnezis has played under multiple coaches and has gotten fewer games under Buckley than under Voss.

Yep. Don't want to derail, further than tolerable, and I didn't watch the Pies NAB game last week, but I'm sure I read a comment from a Pies supporter bemoaning the coach playing him in the midfield. The argument being that he should play exclusively forward. Unfortunately, only KPFs are afforded that luxury (if they're lucky). The knock on Karny is that he doesn't do enough aside from forward duties. A bit like Polec lacking a defensive side to his game. One trick ponies are just too easily exposed.