List Mgmt. 2015 Trade/Draft/FA - SuperMegaUltraThread

[Lyyynnnchy]

I would want to see how McInnes stacks up first. I am not at all keen on having the faith that NicNat will be injury free. History shows he is not.

Griffen from Freo would be cheap. If we could get a top 10 pick for Lycett I'd do it in a heartbeat if we could get Griffen from Freo for a 2nd or 3rd round pick

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

So next season we'll have NN, Sinkers and Fmac. Is that enough? Guess we'll get a better deal now since he's signed a new contract.

Sinkers gives me little confidence in his passing and ball skills. Fmac hasn't shown enough for long enough at WAFL to give me comfort.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

Griffen from Freo would be cheap. If we could get a top 10 pick for Lycett I'd do it in a heartbeat if we could get Griffen from Freo for a 2nd or 3rd round pick

Agree that Griffin is a decent sort to be able to chase however I doubt Lycett would be valued as worthy of a 1st round.

Sometimes I think I am over valuing ruckmen. Look at Hawthorn, Sydney and Geelong as three clubs that have (apart from McEvoy) not been high draft or trade picks. Despite our best in class Cox/Nic Nat, our midfield still looked [poor.

 

[Lyyynnnchy]

Agree that Griffin is a decent sort to be able to chase however I doubt Lycett would be valued as worthy of a 1st round.

Sometimes I think I am over valuing ruckmen. Look at Hawthorn, Sydney and Geelong as three clubs that have (apart from McEvoy) not been high draft or trade picks. Despite our best in class Cox/Nic Nat, our midfield still looked [poor.

Of course lycett would get a 1st rnd pick

 

[BOND 007]

Ah, the intangibles. OK, then.

Players get traded all the time. And it would ultimately be LeCras's decision.

That overstates it. I think we could challenge before 2020.

But that probably needs to be accompanied by some bold decisions.

How is it a 'quick fix' to improve draft position?

My argument was based on posters suggestions namely

1) LeCras is 29 so wont be around for the next tilt. - I would suggest he's capable (injury aside) to play for another 3 years so that's why I said 4-5 years which makes it 19/20
2) WC trade LeCras for a pick in late teens early 20's. - I questioned the wisdom of that given the likelihood of success in that range, and the messages it sends the rest of the players, sponsors and supporters for such a meagre return.

No-one is untradeable (well probably no-one) so by definition LeCras is tradeable (provided as you say he's willing), however the return has to be better than a wishy washy "improvement in draft position".


Given WC is likely to have a pick in the top 6 come years end, I would suggest

 

[Sweet Jesus]

I didn't say I didn't like it, I just said it was a big call. Pick 15 - 18 I wouldn't, 10 - 14 I probably wouldn't but would look at who is likely to be available at those picks, 5 - 9, I'd seriously consider it and would probably go for it, 1-4 sign me up.

Anything around pick 15 would be worth it.

Would you play Sinclair as 2nd ruck, draft a youngster in, draft a mature age ruck or trade for say a Griffen?

Play Sinclair and draft a back-up with a late pick. Unless someone else came super-cheap.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

I doubt Lycett would be valued as worthy of a 1st round.

Sometimes I think I am over valuing ruckmen.

Readymade ruckman don't go cheap.

Look at McEvoy - the Hawks gave up pick 18 and Shane Savage.

A team like Sydney have 31-year-old Mike Pyke as their No.1 ruckman. And then it's speculative - Tom Derickx, Aliir Aliir and Sam Naismith on the rookie list. Lycett would immediately fill a hole in their best 22. You take their first-rounder for that.

 

[Shoestar]

What? He's a tall forward?


Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk

He is 190cm

 

[Sweet Jesus]

1) LeCras is 29 so wont be around for the next tilt. - I would suggest he's capable (injury aside) to play for another 3 years so that's why I said 4-5 years which makes it 19/20

It's a cost-benefit analysis. The last three years of LeCras's career versus a decent draft pick.

If you could go back in time and trade Daniel Kerr at the end of 2010, assuming we got a good deal, would you do it?

2) WC trade LeCras for a pick in late teens early 20's. - I questioned the wisdom of that given the likelihood of success in that range, and the messages it sends the rest of the players, sponsors and supporters for such a meagre return.

What's the 'likelihood of success in that range'?

Surely it's counter-productive and counter-intuitive to start devaluing top-25 draft picks just because we misfired a few times.

I mean, we'll have a top-10 pick this year. Is that less valuable because we picked Masten and Sheppard previously?

No-one is untradeable (well probably no-one) so by definition LeCras is tradeable (provided as you say he's willing), however the return has to be better than a wishy washy "improvement in draft position".

It's a draft pick. How is that "wishy-washy"?

 

[Lyyynnnchy]

Anything around pick 15 would be worth it.

Play Sinclair and draft a back-up with a late pick. Unless someone else came super-cheap.

Couldnt do this. I really dont rate Sinclair. Would rather play Gov and McIness (if he is able to take a spot in the 22) as backup and Naitanui as lone ruck.

 

[pantskyle]

We could have had Ports first rounder last season for Lycett and he was out of contract. It would cost a top 10 pick now.

 

[DanWCE]

Surely it's counter-productive and counter-intuitive to start devaluing top-25 draft picks just because we misfired a few times.

Plus its probably only those external of the club admitting they misfired. Are our recruiters really sitting around a table going "s**t we are really not very good at this... "?

Internally they probably justify it somehow, rather than admit theyre terrible at their jobs. So they would back themselves to get a result with a late teens/early 20s pick.

We on the outside just hope to hell they do.

 

[BOND 007]

It's a cost-benefit analysis. The last three years of LeCras's career versus a decent draft pick.

If you could go back in time and trade Daniel Kerr at the end of 2010, assuming we got a good deal, would you do it?

What's the 'likelihood of success in that range'?

Surely it's counter-productive and counter-intuitive to start devaluing top-25 draft picks just because we misfired a few times.

I mean, we'll have a top-10 pick this year. Is that less valuable because we picked Masten and Sheppard previously?

It's a draft pick. How is that "wishy-washy"?

1) You are right its cost-benefit. I don't think a pick in the late teens/early 20's is a decent enough draft pick for LeCras - you do. That's Ok - we'll agree to disagree.
2) Yes I would - but that's with the benefit of hindsight, which sadly is not possible in this debate
3) I'm not devaluing picks in this range - I just think LeCras is worth more than a pick in this range for the reasons provided earlier
4) Nope - what happened previously is irrelevant.
5) You of all people are very strong on getting posters to be precise in their statements and not be vague. Trading leCras for an "improvement in draft position" is a vague proposition. For the record I would be hesitant in trading LeCras fullstop, however if it meant another top 6 maybe 7 pick, then I could be persuaded to re-evaluate. And Coniglio isn't an option, if he re-signs with GWS then he's gone, if he doesn't then LeCras wont be needed to seal the deal.

 

[LordHaart]

Simpson's influence in the direction of recruiting last year was noticeable - but the reality is that nailing a pick in the late teens early 20's is more miss than hit. Whilst understanding your logic, the reality is that it would be highly highly unlikely for any club to actively pursue trading a contracted player of LeCras's ability for an unknown that low. I realize that the Saints and Del Santo parted ways for a number in the 20's, but the reality is that was a different situation for both club and player.

Despite many of the posts suggesting as such, players aren't traded like pawns unless there is an underlying issue, certainly ones who have the respect of a club like LeCras has at WC. Additionally the concept that posters have in thinking that "a premiership is 4 years away so lets trade out all players who wont be here in 4 years" is simply erroneous. Youngsters need to learn from those who have experience AND who have talent, and simply filling a side with youngsters talented or not, simply wont work. GC and GWS realized this when they went searching and they had the pick of the best youngsters. GWS are still actively canvassing older more mature players as they realize the age group dynamics that is required.

Actually, I agree with all of this - especially about us not having any intention of trading LeCras. I was just saying that if we had to magically pick someone who would give us the best return in a trade without impacting our future 3-4 years from now he'd be up there. He'd obviously have to request the trade though and I don't think he would so it's moot.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

2) Yes I would - but that's with the benefit of hindsight, which sadly is not possible in this debate

No - but it's instructive.

You have to weigh the final three years of a guy's career vs an earlyish draft pick.

3) I'm not devaluing picks in this range - I just think LeCras is worth more than a pick in this range for the reasons provided earlier

That's what people would have said about Kerr at the end of 2010.

Turns out an early pick would have been better.

5) You of all people are very strong on getting posters to be precise in their statements and not be vague. Trading leCras for an "improvement in draft position" is a vague proposition.

I said late first-rounder/early second-rounder.

For the record I would be hesitant in trading LeCras fullstop, however if it meant another top 6 maybe 7 pick, then I could be persuaded to re-evaluate.

Unrealistic.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

He is 190cm

And drafted to eventually take over from another tall forward in the 191cm Matt Rosa?

 

[jaxxon]

I'd be happy to have Paul Johnson on the rookie list as a back up ruckman if Sinclair would get us a decent trade. He would be competitive if required.

 

[Johnno22]

I'd be happy to have Paul Johnson on the rookie list as a back up ruckman if Sinclair would get us a decent trade. He would be competitive if required.

I think he will be 96 next birthday

 

[Eastern Rangers]

He is 190cm

It's 2015. Fyfe, Watson, Mundy, Barlow, McIntosh, Colledge, Pendles, Rosa, Bontempelli and Jack Watts. Being that tall doesn't make you a KPP.

Not once have i seen him play KP. He played wing/ flank and midfield in colts and has done the same since joining West Coast.

 

[94_Eagles]

 

[Masto]

LeCras won't be traded.

 

[94_Eagles]

LeCras won't be traded.

No s**t

 

[Yamumluvsbigcox]

And drafted to eventually take over from another tall forward in the 191cm Matt Rosa?

Same height as darling !
Are we playing guess who is not a key forward ?

 

[Yamumluvsbigcox]

Simpson's influence in the direction of recruiting last year was noticeable - but the reality is that nailing a pick in the late teens early 20's is more miss than hit. Whilst understanding your logic, the reality is that it would be highly highly unlikely for any club to actively pursue trading a contracted player of LeCras's ability for an unknown that low. I realize that the Saints and Del Santo parted ways for a number in the 20's, but the reality is that was a different situation for both club and player.

Despite many of the posts suggesting as such, players aren't traded like pawns unless there is an underlying issue, certainly ones who have the respect of a club like LeCras has at WC. Additionally the concept that posters have in thinking that "a premiership is 4 years away so lets trade out all players who wont be here in 4 years" is simply erroneous. Youngsters need to learn from those who have experience AND who have talent, and simply filling a side with youngsters talented or not, simply wont work. GC and GWS realized this when they went searching and they had the pick of the best youngsters. GWS are still actively canvassing older more mature players as they realize the age group dynamics that is required.

So how do we fix our terrible midfield before our KPPs are over the hill ? Or are we hoping our KPPs can hold on like pav , McPharlin and co !

 

[94_Eagles]

So how do we fix our terrible midfield before our KPPs are over the hill ? Or are we hoping our KPPs can hold on like pav , McPharlin and co !

How good was the Inverse Universe in 2005-2006 called how do we fix our terrible forward line?