List Mgmt. 2015 Trade, Free agency and draft rumours

[Leather Poisoning]

Is it worth noting that Suckling is on that FA list?

Any reason why he hasn't been re-signed? What would we get for him if he left as a FA? End of 2nd round?

Well buddy got us pick 19, so using that as a yardstick....

 

[TazHawk15]

Any hope for Sam Grimley doing anything AFL worthy in 2015?

Haven't heard or seen anything about him since being rookie listed. Would've liked to have been hearing how he is training with huge intensity like a man who knows he's on his last chance.

Liam Shiels said on the clubs camp update that Grimley was training really hard.

 

[MrPremiership]

Well buddy got us pick 19, so using that as a yardstick....

yeah, my yardstick is malceski. he is younger but wouldnt get as juicy a contract (unless he went to an expansion side). Will probably stay with the Club, but interesting that he is unsigned

 

[cryptor]

Liam Shiels said on the clubs camp update that Grimley was training really hard.

Spooky regarding the timing of that...

 

[Gunstall555]

Free agency...clubs say that is only helps the strong. In another thread we are comparing Hawthorn vs Melbourne since 1997 so I thought this would be a good test case for comparing how Free Agency has played out for both clubs:

Hawthorn's Outs:
Campbell Brown
Clinton Young
Tom Murphy
Xavier Ellis
Lance Franklin

Hawthorn's Ins:
Pick 27 (Campbell Brown compensation)
Pick 66 (Clinton Young compensation)
Pick 19 (Lance Franklin compensation)
Jon Simpkin (DFA)
James Frawley (FA)

Melbourne's Outs:
Tom Scully
Jared Rivers
Brent Maloney
Colin Sylvia
James Frawley

Melbourne's Ins:
Pick 4 & 13 (Tom Scully compensation)
Pick 49 (Brent Maloney compensation)
Shannon Byrnes (cancelled out Jared Rivers compensation)
David Rodan (traded for pick 88 but only done so to avoid having to wait to sign as a DFA)
Pick 23 (Colin Sylvia compensation)
Pick 3 (James Frawley compensation)

Now on the strengths of the outs, one could argue that Hawthorn have lost more quality than Melbourne. However Melbourne has clearly received a hell of a lot more compensation compared to Hawthorn for the players they have lost.

Not that I'm bothered, I am now convinced the strongest on field clubs in the AFL are that because of their football department and coaching setup. I'd love to look over each of the last 5 drafts and compare who Melbourne have picked up as top 20 players and compare these guys to the guys we have picked up from 30+. I bet we come out on top easily there (e.g. Stratton and Duyrea at 46 & 69 vs Scully and Trengove at 1 & 2).

 

[cryptor]

Is it worth noting that Suckling is on that FA list?

Any reason why he hasn't been re-signed? What would we get for him if he left as a FA? End of 2nd round?

If he's restricted that means he's in the top 25% of cap payments, right? As opposed to Young and Frawley who weren't so became unrestricted.

I think he is rated higher internally than he is by a lot on this board. I also reckon he would appeal to a few clubs. Depending on how well he plays next year I could see a pick after our first or end of first rounder for him being possible. We could conceivably match a low offer and trade if he wanted out (I don't think he will).

 

[Blaze Storm]

Free agency...clubs say that is only helps the strong. In another thread we are comparing Hawthorn vs Melbourne since 1997 so I thought this would be a good test case for comparing how Free Agency has played out for both clubs:

Hawthorn's Outs:
Campbell Brown
Clinton Young
Tom Murphy
Xavier Ellis
Lance Franklin

Hawthorn's Ins:
Pick 27 (Campbell Brown compensation)
Pick 66 (Clinton Young compensation)
Pick 19 (Lance Franklin compensation)
Jon Simpkin (DFA)
James Frawley (FA)

Melbourne's Outs:
Tom Scully
Jared Rivers
Brent Maloney
Colin Sylvia
James Frawley

Melbourne's Ins:
Pick 4 & 13 (Tom Scully compensation)
Pick 49 (Brent Maloney compensation)
Shannon Byrnes (cancelled out Jared Rivers compensation)
David Rodan (traded for pick 88 but only done so to avoid having to wait to sign as a DFA)
Pick 23 (Colin Sylvia compensation)
Pick 3 (James Frawley compensation)

Now on the strengths of the outs, one could argue that Hawthorn have lost more quality than Melbourne. However Melbourne has clearly received a hell of a lot more compensation compared to Hawthorn for the players they have lost.

Not that I'm bothered, I am now convinced the strongest on field clubs in the AFL are that because of their football department and coaching setup. I'd love to look over each of the last 5 drafts and compare who Melbourne have picked up as top 20 players and compare these guys to the guys we have picked up from 30+. I bet we come out on top easily there (e.g. Stratton and Duyrea at 46 & 69 vs Scully and Trengove at 1 & 2).

If you consider that in 2012 Pick 64 (Young) was used to grab Spangher, Pick 19 (Franklin) was used to grab McEvoy and the Brown pick was used to snare Hale, then consider the following:

Free agency OUT
C Brown
C Young
T Murphy
X Ellis
L Franklin

Free agency IN
D Hale
M Spangher
B McEvoy
J Simpkin
J Frawley

I know there were other picks involved, but when you put it like this, it doesn't seem like such a bad trade. Especially when you consider that all of the outs barring Franklin have struggled to play a game due to injuries and mostly retired.

 

[cryptor]

Free agency...clubs say that is only helps the strong. In another thread we are comparing Hawthorn vs Melbourne since 1997 so I thought this would be a good test case for comparing how Free Agency has played out for both clubs:

Hawthorn's Outs:
Campbell Brown
Clinton Young
Tom Murphy
Xavier Ellis
Lance Franklin

Hawthorn's Ins:
Pick 27 (Campbell Brown compensation)
Pick 66 (Clinton Young compensation)
Pick 19 (Lance Franklin compensation)
Jon Simpkin (DFA)
James Frawley (FA)

Melbourne's Outs:
Tom Scully
Jared Rivers
Brent Maloney
Colin Sylvia
James Frawley

Melbourne's Ins:
Pick 4 & 13 (Tom Scully compensation)
Pick 49 (Brent Maloney compensation)
Shannon Byrnes (cancelled out Jared Rivers compensation)
David Rodan (traded for pick 88 but only done so to avoid having to wait to sign as a DFA)
Pick 23 (Colin Sylvia compensation)
Pick 3 (James Frawley compensation)

Now on the strengths of the outs, one could argue that Hawthorn have lost more quality than Melbourne. However Melbourne has clearly received a hell of a lot more compensation compared to Hawthorn for the players they have lost.

Not that I'm bothered, I am now convinced the strongest on field clubs in the AFL are that because of their football department and coaching setup. I'd love to look over each of the last 5 drafts and compare who Melbourne have picked up as top 20 players and compare these guys to the guys we have picked up from 30+. I bet we come out on top easily there (e.g. Stratton and Duyrea at 46 & 69 vs Scully and Trengove at 1 & 2).

As soon as you remove the Buddy deal it doesn't look lopsided. But we all already knew pick 19 wasn't fair compensation anyway.

 

[seysearles]

2015's FREE AGENTS (aka Hawthorn's shopping list):

ADELAIDE
Patrick Dangerfield
Richard Douglas
Andy Otten
Brent Reilly
Scott Thompson
Brodie Martin

BRISBANE LIONS
Jed Adcock
Matthew Leuenberger

CARLTON
Dennis Armfield
Andrew Carrazzo
David Ellard
Matthew Kreuzer
Chris Judd

COLLINGWOOD
Brent Macaffer

ESSENDON
Courtenay Dempsey
Brent Stanton
Tom Bellchambers
Dustin Fletcher
Tayte Pears
Jason Winderlich

FREMANTLE
Ryan Crowley
Paul Duffield
Michael Johnson
Luke McPharlin
Matthew Pavlich
Aaron Sandilands

GEELONG
Jimmy Bartel
Corey Enright
Tom Hawkins
James Kelly
Steve Johnson
Andrew Mackie
Mathew Stokes

HAWTHORN
Luke Hodge
Sam Mitchell
Matthew Suckling
Brendan Whitecross

MELBOURNE
Colin Garland
Mark Jamar
Nathan Jones

NORTH MELBOURNE
Michael Firrito
Nathan Grima
Brent Harvey
Scott McMahon
Drew Petrie
Andrew Swallow
Robbie Tarrant

PORT ADELAIDE
Kane Cornes
Tom Logan (rookie)

RICHMOND
Nathan Foley
Chris Newman
Alex Rance

ST KILDA
Sean Dempster
Sam Fisher
Sam Gilbert
Jack Steven
Adam Schneider (rookie)

SYDNEY SWANS
Adam Goodes
Heath Grundy
Ted Richards

WEST COAST
Sam Butler
Patrick McGinnity
Scott Selwood
Beau Waters

WESTERN BULLDOGS
Matthew Boyd
Jarrad Grant
Dale Morris
Robert Murphy
Easton Wood

 

[Great 2008]

2015's FREE AGENTS (aka Hawthorn's shopping list):

ADELAIDE
Patrick Dangerfield
Richard Douglas
Andy Otten
Brent Reilly
Scott Thompson
Brodie Martin

BRISBANE LIONS
Jed Adcock
Matthew Leuenberger

CARLTON
Dennis Armfield
Andrew Carrazzo
David Ellard
Matthew Kreuzer
Chris Judd

COLLINGWOOD
Brent Macaffer

ESSENDON
Courtenay Dempsey
Brent Stanton
Tom Bellchambers
Dustin Fletcher
Tayte Pears
Jason Winderlich

FREMANTLE
Ryan Crowley
Paul Duffield
Michael Johnson
Luke McPharlin
Matthew Pavlich
Aaron Sandilands

GEELONG
Jimmy Bartel
Corey Enright
Tom Hawkins
James Kelly
Steve Johnson
Andrew Mackie
Mathew Stokes

HAWTHORN
Luke Hodge
Sam Mitchell
Matthew Suckling
Brendan Whitecross

MELBOURNE
Colin Garland
Mark Jamar
Nathan Jones

NORTH MELBOURNE
Michael Firrito
Nathan Grima
Brent Harvey
Scott McMahon
Drew Petrie
Andrew Swallow
Robbie Tarrant

PORT ADELAIDE
Kane Cornes
Tom Logan (rookie)

RICHMOND
Nathan Foley
Chris Newman
Alex Rance

ST KILDA
Sean Dempster
Sam Fisher
Sam Gilbert
Jack Steven
Adam Schneider (rookie)

SYDNEY SWANS
Adam Goodes
Heath Grundy
Ted Richards

WEST COAST
Sam Butler
Patrick McGinnity
Scott Selwood
Beau Waters

WESTERN BULLDOGS
Matthew Boyd
Jarrad Grant
Dale Morris
Robert Murphy
Easton Wood

Almost looks like the 2015 retirement list give or take a few.

 

[Brishawk]

Almost looks like the 2015 retirement list give or take few.

haha yeah I was amazed Boyd was still going.

Could Handle Dangerfield, Douglas or Micheal Johnson on our list A few others if they were cheap enough. I assume Rance will re-sign.

 

[seysearles]

Hawthorn's Ins:
Pick 27 (Campbell Brown compensation)
Pick 66 (Clinton Young compensation)
Pick 19 (Lance Franklin compensation)

Pick 4 & 13 (Tom Scully compensation)
Pick 49 (Brent Maloney compensation)
Shannon Byrnes (cancelled out Jared Rivers compensation)
Pick 23 (Colin Sylvia compensation)
Pick 3 (James Frawley compensation)

Who did the clubs bring in for this comp though?

 

[Blaze Storm]

Who did the clubs bring in for this comp though?

Roughly speaking, if we look at who was bought with compo picks:

Hawthorn's OUT:
Campbell Brown
Clinton Young
Tom Murphy
Xavier Ellis
Lance Franklin

Hawthorn IN:
D Hale
M Spangher
B McEvoy
J Simpkin
J Frawley

Melbourne OUT:
Tom Scully
Jared Rivers
Brent Maloney
Colin Sylvia
James Frawley

Melbourne IN:
Jimmy Toumpas
Dom Barry
Dean Kent
Shannon Byrnes
Bernie Vince
Angus Brayshaw

 

[Gunstall555]

Who did the clubs bring in for this comp though?

The point I was trying to make is we lost a similar amount of talent (though we clearly lost the most talented player), however in way of compensation Melbourne were clearly the winners. Or at least should have been. We are lucky our great club has gotten great results out of what is really just scraps when it comes to drafting and FA compensation.

 

[Mitchell54]

If he's restricted that means he's in the top 25% of cap payments, right? As opposed to Young and Frawley who weren't so became unrestricted.

I think he is rated higher internally than he is by a lot on this board. I also reckon he would appeal to a few clubs. Depending on how well he plays next year I could see a pick after our first or end of first rounder for him being possible. We could conceivably match a low offer and trade if he wanted out (I don't think he will).

Suckling is worth a first rounder. he would go after our first rounder which will be 17 or 18, somewhere around there.
He will stay though.

 

[Great 2008]

I can only see us having a crack at a free agent if we have few retirements at the end of the year Lake/Burgoyne? With the recruitment of Frawley and a few boys (Roughy for example) renewing contracts on more coin, our cap space may be pretty tight. A few boys on the list will be due for a raise as well, imo after playing in 3 consecutive GF's.

I think we are more likely to recruit for a need, like Frawley than pick up a Dangerfield or the likes. We are more likely to target an O'Rourke / Gunston than blow big coin on a whim.

Personally I think Danger will stay at Adelaide especially after the Cats season goes into freefall 2015.

 

[Roger Rogerson]

I can only see us having crack at a free agent if we have few retirements at the end of the year Lake/Burgoyne? With the recruitment of Frawley and a few boys (Roughy for example) renewing contracts on more coin our cap space may be pretty tight. A few boys on the list will be due for a raise as well imo after playing in 3 consecutive GF's.

I think we are more likely to recruit for a need, like Frawley than pick up a Dangerfield or the likes. We are more likely to target an O'Rourke / Gunston than blow big coin on a whim.

Personally I think Danger will stay at Adelaide especially after the Cats season goes into freefall 2015.

I agree - I think there will be a better value FA to fit our needs or a targeted trade we can do rather than throw big money at a top of the tree player like Dangerfield. Might get a whack here but I reckon Dangers is a tad overrated - not a great kick and the one thing you want guaranteed in a mid if you are going to throw big money at them is class finishing with the ball in hand. He is great to watch but in terms of efficiency I dont think it matches his excitement factor.

I reckon Dangerfield is goneski though without doubt.

 

[Mitchell54]

Personally I think Danger will stay at Adelaide especially after the Cats season goes into freefall 2015.

Geelong won't freefall, Dangerfield will not be at Adelaide next year.

Dangerfield will be somewhere else, not necessarily Geelong.

 

[Great 2008]

Geelong won't freefall, Dangerfield will not be at Adelaide next year.

Dangerfield will be somewhere else, not necessarily Geelong.

The Geelong bit was a little tongue in cheek (but I do think they may struggle). Danger to where else? Judd replacement?

 

[TheFourPillars]

I agree - I think there will be a better value FA to fit our needs or a targeted trade we can do rather than throw big money at a top of the tree player like Dangerfield. Might get a whack here but I reckon Dangers is a tad overrated - not a great kick and the one thing you want guaranteed in a mid if you are going to throw big money at them is class finishing with the ball in hand. He is great to watch but in terms of efficiency I dont think it matches his excitement factor.

I reckon Dangerfield is goneski though without doubt.

also reckon he will be a judd as in fade quickly because of the grunt work he has done already. Still wouldn't mind on the list if available at the right price. The player i want most is hoskin-elliot AKA hyphen

 

[Mitchell54]

Danger to where else? Judd replacement?

Who knows these days. we all thought Buddy was certain to go to GWS but that didn't happen.
A team could pull at a ridiculous offer similar to Franklins one.

 

[GinniAndTonic]

Heard a rumour that we are going to go hard at Rory slone hope it's true

 

[Gunstall555]

Heard a rumour that we are going to go hard at Rory slone hope it's true

He is pretty well setup in Adelaide, I doubt he'd want to move now. Dangerfield is more get-able but much more costly.

 

[cryptor]

Heard a rumour that we are going to go hard at Rory slone hope it's true

He is pretty well setup in Adelaide, I doubt he'd want to move now. Dangerfield is more get-able but much more costly.

Go hard at both and it will drive up the price of which ever stays. Hopefully by enough to make it hard for them to match the offer to the other.
Gut feeling at the moment is we'll get neither. Not unless we have at least two of Mitch, Hodge and Burgoyne retire at years end.

 

[Gunstall555]

Go hard at both and it will drive up the price of which ever stays. Hopefully by enough to make it hard for them to match the offer to the other.
Gut feeling at the moment is we'll get neither. Not unless we have at least two of Mitch, Hodge and Burgoyne retire at years end.

I agree, if they aren't playing for us then hopefully they are on mega deals to mess with list management of whatever club they sign for.