List Mgmt. 2016 Trade, Draft and free agency news (no hypothetical trades)

[Gralin]

My theory is there are a bunch of people on here and in the media that don't understand how footy clubs build lists now, mind you I think there are some footy clubs that don't understand this either!

The names that get put up for trade tend to be the same 2-3 players that are either best 22 but not liked by some, or in the forgotten men section that somehow would get paid overs for.

We've had a real focus over the last 10 years on various traits, we worked hard to upgrade our kicking skills, we have had a big push on players with good endurance and we tend to look for footballers over athletes that play football.

Anyone on our list who is all 3 won't be going anywhere any time soon, I think just about everyone on our list ticks 2 of those boxes

 

[play2win]

My theory is there are a bunch of people on here and in the media that don't understand how footy clubs build lists now, mind you I think there are some footy clubs that don't understand this either!

The names that get put up for trade tend to be the same 2-3 players that are either best 22 but not liked by some, or in the forgotten men section that somehow would get paid overs for.

We've had a real focus over the last 10 years on various traits, we worked hard to upgrade our kicking skills, we have had a big push on players with good endurance and we tend to look for footballers over athletes that play football.

Anyone on our list who is all 3 won't be going anywhere any time soon, I think just about everyone on our list ticks 2 of those boxes

totally agree with your post regarding the development of club lists. i've always been a little perplexed over the comment about selecting footballers over athletes as you cant really make it in afl these days unless your a good athlete. i guess it just emphasises the process of selection is based on footballing attributes and upon committing to the selection the club then focusses on turning the footballer into the best athlete they could possibly be.

 

[Boo71]

A


For a direct replace for a Hodge or Mitchell as a needs based trade. If there is excessive talent at a position why not move or request an option to move in order to meet a need. To move on a good young player for another that you require more is a no brainer. At the end of the day it's a business to win premierships not retain every kid that comes through the door & keep them til they retire

So you, and the other one, want to get rid of the very players that absolutely compliment the game style of the player you want to bring in, therefore robbing the player you traded for of the exact type of payer that helps his game become elite, and the overall balance of the team, just to get them in the door, and then re-daft the type of player you just got rid of again from somewhere else with the left overs

Its so obvious I hope the list manager has worked it out, get rid of the very age bracket and experience we are lacking.

 

[Gralin]

totally agree with your post regarding the development of club lists. i've always been a little perplexed over the comment about selecting footballers over athletes as you cant really make it in afl these days unless your a good athlete. i guess it just emphasises the process of selection is based on footballing attributes and upon committing to the selection the club then focusses on turning the footballer into the best athlete they could possibly be.

Obviously nobody gets to the level of AFL footy without being athletic, but there is a big different in what Mitchell can do physically compared to say Buddy. Buddy is a freak athlete but I don't think he has half the footy brain of Mitchell.

Lake was never the fastest footballer but his ability to read the play allowed him to defend his own way, part of what makes Gibbo so good as a third defender is knowing where to be and I believe there is a limit to how much some of these things can be taught.

There are plenty of players who can find the ball or are smart footballers and can overcome physical limitations to be good to great footballers.

There are plenty of players coasting on talent alone who could be better with application.

There are some flashy players who have minimal impact but look great and the media can drool over them.

If you look at Lovell and Hardwick, there are questions on them based on physical attributes, height, speed etc but one thing they both showed is that they understand the game and how to find the footy. Both rated well in tests the Hawks value, endurance and kicking ability but they also showed a feel for the game as well as having mature bodies.

Dane Swan is one who springs to mind when you talk about a footballer vs an athlete, he's old school, not the best trainer, low draft pick but does anyone think he can't play footy?

 

[PhatHQ]

So you, and the other one, want to get rid of the very players that absolutely compliment the game style of the player you want to bring in, therefore robbing the player you traded for of the exact type of payer that helps his game become elite, and the overall balance of the team, just to get them in the door, and then re-daft the type of player you just got rid of again from somewhere else with the left overs

Its so obvious I hope the list manager has worked it out, get rid of the very age bracket and experience we are lacking.

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No mate.
If we have 8 goal kicking fwd/mids & we require 1 ready made mid jet to fill the rather large shoes of a Hodge or Mitch it would seem quite straightforward to address that position by trading 1 of those 8 along with draft picks to get that player....
I know there will be backlash but WTF!....
I want a fit O'mera to carry the midfield for the next 5-10 years.
He is going to cost more than our 2 late first rd picks.
If he is proven fit he will cost our 2016 & 2017 plus a player to get him.
We have an extremely strong list of fwd/mid players IMO & can trade 1 to get O'mera.
GC will want a good player & our picks to get one of their best if not the second best player behind only Ablett.
IMO I think that by trading Breust & our 2 first rd picks for O'mera & a 3-4 pick 2017 would be a good trade for both parties.
Hawthorn get their gun mid
GC get that goal kicking fwd/mid that they need IMO
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Breust is good but O'mera is better.
We can cover the loss of Breust
We can't cover the loss of Hodge & Mitchell
O'mera is already elite
The "player balance" isn't out of whack... eg - Bruest goes, Burton, Sicily, Hardwick, Willsmore, Webster, Stewart, JML or Lachie Langford comes in.
So.... With the ever so popular ******* face that follows comments like you have posted, you might want to re consider the position that Hawthorn are in in regard to sustained success as we are in need of a ready made midfield gun at the end of the season not a fwd/mid who can be replaced to a large extent with players on the current list.

 

[Gralin]

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No mate.
If we have 8 goal kicking fwd/mids & we require 1 ready made mid jet to fill the rather large shoes of a Hodge or Mitch it would seem quite straightforward to address that position by trading 1 of those 8 along with draft picks to get that player....
I know there will be backlash but WTF!....
I want a fit O'mera to carry the midfield for the next 5-10 years.
He is going to cost more than our 2 late first rd picks.
If he is proven fit he will cost our 2016 & 2017 plus a player to get him.
We have an extremely strong list of fwd/mid players IMO & can trade 1 to get O'mera.
GC will want a good player & our picks to get one of their best if not the second best player behind only Ablett.
IMO I think that by trading Breust & our 2 first rd picks for O'mera & a 3-4 pick 2017 would be a good trade for both parties.
Hawthorn get their gun mid
GC get that goal kicking fwd/mid that they need IMO
----
Breust is good but O'mera is better.
We can cover the loss of Breust
We can't cover the loss of Hodge & Mitchell
O'mera is already elite
The "player balance" isn't out of whack... eg - Bruest goes, Burton, Sicily, Hardwick, Willsmore, Webster, Stewart, JML or Lachie Langford comes in.
So.... With the ever so popular ******* face that follows comments like you have posted, you might want to re consider the position that Hawthorn are in in regard to sustained success as we are in need of a ready made midfield gun at the end of the season not a fwd/mid who can be replaced to a large extent with players on the current list.

I get the idea I just think you are undervaluing Breust.

I know part of it is the value you place on various positions and the worry that we dont have the players on our list to step into the shoes of Mitch and Hodge but who does have those players on their list?

Maybe I put too much value in Breust but I think he is a very important part of our 3 peat and integral to our forward setup. Hardwick is the only player you listed that may eventually be able to replicate his current role with any amount of success but thats a big if.

I don't know that JOM is the guy we need, at the end of the year we will have a better idea of how he is going and hopefully how JOR, Howe, Hartung, W Langford and others are looking as midfielders

 

[PhatHQ]

I get the idea I just think you are undervaluing Breust.

I know part of it is the value you place on various positions and the worry that we dont have the players on our list to step into the shoes of Mitch and Hodge but who does have those players on their list?

Maybe I put too much value in Breust but I think he is a very important part of our 3 peat and integral to our forward setup. Hardwick is the only player you listed that may eventually be able to replicate his current role with any amount of success but thats a big if.

I don't know that JOM is the guy we need, at the end of the year we will have a better idea of how he is going and hopefully how JOR, Howe, Hartung, W Langford and others are looking as midfielders

Without a doubt it will be an end of year decision & to see the progression of the list as to what's required moving forward.
I love Breust in a Hawks jumper & he has been a very important part of what has been achieved in the 3 peat! I think he had a bit of form drop off last year but is without a doubt still in the top 10 on the Hawks list.
I don't see any particular player replicating his role because whoever it might be will have different strengths & weaknesses. I would expect however that his position on the ground, as I see it, could get 25-35+ goals, some midfield/ high half forward rotation & ( where I think he dropped off ) tackling pressure.
I might be over estimating the players as mentioned above but if that sort of production is out of reach of those guys in the next 1-3 seasons then I guess I have blinkers on as to their true value

 

[cryptor]

Saw interesting fact about Breust on Twitter yesterday. He apparently holds the all time VFL/AFL record for highest games won % of any player to have played 100+ games. A bit lucky to have made his debut when he did but he's also been instrumental in the success of this era so just shows his value to the team.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Not sure this thread needs 10 months of "I'd trade Bruest.....Yeah, well I wouldn't!".

I'm outta here.

 

[Dixie Flatline]

Saw interesting fact about Breust on Twitter yesterday. He apparently holds the all time VFL/AFL record for highest games won % of any player to have played 100+ games. A bit lucky to have made his debut when he did but he's also been instrumental in the success of this era so just shows his value to the team.

Whoever tweeted that got it wrong.

Clyde Laidlaw who played 121 games for Melbourne between 1954 and 1962 holds the record, with a winning percentage of 81.05% (99 wins, 3 draws and 22 losses).

In fact, Breust doesn't even have the record amongst current players. Isaac Smith has a slightly better record of 89 wins and 22 losses (80.18%) from 111 games (to date).

 

[killerspud]

I get the idea I just think you are undervaluing Breust.

I know part of it is the value you place on various positions and the worry that we dont have the players on our list to step into the shoes of Mitch and Hodge but who does have those players on their list?

Maybe I put too much value in Breust but I think he is a very important part of our 3 peat and integral to our forward setup. Hardwick is the only player you listed that may eventually be able to replicate his current role with any amount of success but thats a big if.

I don't know that JOM is the guy we need, at the end of the year we will have a better idea of how he is going and hopefully how JOR, Howe, Hartung, W Langford and others are looking as midfielders

Nah, he's not undervaluing Breust - I mean 50-goal a season small forwards grow on trees - every team has them

 

[play2win]

there is no way i would ever consider trading breust. our forward line is unique and our main strength in both depth and talent. get more talent in but not at the expense of what differentiates us from the pack.

 

[Brishawk]

Nah, he's not undervaluing Breust - I mean 50-goal a season small forwards grow on trees - every team has them

haha exactly. There are like two players in the league that can reliable kick 50 goals a year who are shorter than 190cm.

 

[Boo71]

Not sure this thread needs 10 months of "I'd trade Bruest.....Yeah, well I wouldn't!".

I'm outta here.

Only ten months....more like two years

 

[PhatHQ]

Nah, he's not undervaluing Breust - I mean 50-goal a season small forwards grow on trees - every team has them

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You could also argue that he is a product of the system & a similar type could have similar production.
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Not sure this thread needs 10 months of "I'd trade Bruest.....Yeah, well I wouldn't!".

I'm outta here.

-----
who would you trade to land O'mera or Wines Abasi?
I made a reasonable case for my opinion I thought, with there being an opinion, a response & a counter...
I'm definitely not going to preach for 10 months!
Reasonable discussion, I thought, would be encouraged rather than shyed away from in a trade thread.
---------
It would seem that a trade thread that doesn't like to discuss trade or just expects a trade to be players that aren't wanted or considered fringe players wouldn't be much of a thread at all if there is expectation of landing a marquee player...

 

[Gralin]

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You could also argue that he is a product of the system & a similar type could have similar production.

Very close to the he's only good because of the players around him mantra on the main board when bringing up any Hawthorn player.

Would he kick as many goals at Freo probably not but who would.

Breust is part of that successful system, he kicks goals, he tackles, he creates goals and he helps with midfield rotation.

Its really robbing Peter to pay Paul taking him out to bring Jaeger in. Obviously there will be a cost to get JOM in any kind of trade but I think Punky for JOM in a straight swap would be a win for GC.

 

[PhatHQ]

Very close to the he's only good because of the players around him mantra on the main board when bringing up any Hawthorn player.

Would he kick as many goals at Freo probably not but who would.

Breust is part of that successful system, he kicks goals, he tackles, he creates goals and he helps with midfield rotation.

Its really robbing Peter to pay Paul taking him out to bring Jaeger in. Obviously there will be a cost to get JOM in any kind of trade but I think Punky for JOM in a straight swap would be a win for GC.

It would be an interesting stat to look at Money Ball & see the projected value of Hawthorn without Hodge & Mitchell but with Breust & look at the stats without Hodge, Mitchell & Breust but with JOM.
Does anyone know how to do this??? Or point me in the right direction
Edit--- it's an old article
http://m.afl.com.au/news/2014-01-24/the-new-moneyball

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

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You could also argue that he is a product of the system & a similar type could have similar production.
-----

-----
who would you trade to land O'mera or Wines Abasi?
I made a reasonable case for my opinion I thought, with there being an opinion, a response & a counter...
I'm definitely not going to preach for 10 months!
Reasonable discussion, I thought, would be encouraged rather than shyed away from in a trade thread.
---------
It would seem that a trade thread that doesn't like to discuss trade or just expects a trade to be players that aren't wanted or considered fringe players wouldn't be much of a thread at all if there is expectation of landing a marquee player...

Doesn't matter who I'd trade, I'm not Graham Wright.

Trade hypotheticals make me want to poke my eyes out.

 

[PhatHQ]

Doesn't matter who I'd trade, I'm not Graham Wright.

Trade hypotheticals make me want to poke my eyes out.

Lol I guess that trade threads aren't for you

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Lol I guess that trade threads aren't for you

Trade threads are my bread and butter, pointless debates and arguments over how exactly the trade would be done and what picks would be involved, not so much.

 

[WWSD]

David Zaharakis would be one player who I hope the Hawks are targeting.

He's out of contract at the end of this year.

 

[Brishawk]

David Zaharakis would be one player who I hope the Hawks are targeting.

He's out of contract at the end of this year.

I'm concerned about his knee. Seems like a Cooney without the Brownlow. I do like him as a player though just concerned he won't realise his potential due to injury.

 

[Gralin]

I actually hope our kids step up and make trading unnecessary

 

[threesixpio]

David Zaharakis would be one player who I hope the Hawks are targeting.

He's out of contract at the end of this year.

I'm concerned that he isn't a team player. Seems to not go along with what the leadership group wants etc

 

[threesixpio]

David Zaharakis would be one player who I hope the Hawks are targeting.

He's out of contract at the end of this year.

I like him as a player too btw