Opinion 2017 List

[Shermanator]

Best 23 and unders from around the league
GCS: O'Meara, Bennell, Martin, Lynch, Swallow, Prestia, Kolodjashnij, Wright, May, Nicholls, Garlett, Miller, Saad, Matera, Day, Leslie, McKenzie
GWS: Cameron, Shiel, Treloar, Smith, Whitfield, Coniglio, Greene, Hoskin-Elliott, Steele, Kelly, Haynes, Tomlinson, McCarthy, Buntine, Pickett, Ahern,
MEL: Hogan, Petracca, Brayshaw, McDonald, Tyson, Viney, Gawn, Salem, Toumpas, Vandenberg
STK: McCartin, Bruce, Billings, Newnes, Dunstan, Weller, Lonie, Webster, Acres, Goddard
WBD: Bontempelli, Boyd, Dahlhaus, Macrae, Stringer, Wallis, Hunter, McLean, Daniel, Jong, Roberts
WCE: Gaff, Yeo, McGovern, Darling, Cripps, Sheed, Duggan, Lycett, Lamb

Damn there are some good players in that lot!..

 

[Smoocher]

Spot on with most of your summary. Concern is when we do drop a few spots on the ladder it will be difficult to attract a grade free agents and we will be subjected to raids from opposition clubs. On the other hand improvement will come to many young players and hopefully some will turn into a graders.

 

[Daniltchenko You Beauty]

We are going to have a lot of salary cap space to go out and target some really big names after 2016.

 

[Donkey Chop]

Best 23 is pretty young, most are still being judged on potential. We're not coming off a rebuild so it doesn't surprise me that we're not up there with GWS, Suns, Saints and Collingwood and all the other sides occupying the bottom half of the ladder. If you did a list of players 26 and under I'm sure we'd be ahead of those guys. The question is will there be a window between the Hawks decline and the emergence of GWS & Suns

[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.701961)]1 Currie, Daniel 4 26yr 5mth 15 Feb 1989 201cm 96kg Northern Knights Ruck
25 Tarrant, Robbie 54 26yr 3mth 25 Apr 1989 196cm 97kg Bendigo Pioneers Defender
Forward
19 Wright, Samuel 101 25yr 15 Jul 1990 188cm 85kg Murray Bushrangers Defender
35 Black, Aaron 49 24yr 8mth 29 Nov 1990 192cm 88kg Peel Thunder Forward
7 Ziebell, Jack 117 24yr 5mth 28 Feb 1991 188cm 90kg Murray Bushrangers Midfield
Forward
38 Daw, Majak 15 24yr 4mth 11 Mar 1991 195cm 97kg Western Jets Forward
3 Bastinac, Ryan 118 24yr 1mth 22 Jun 1991 184cm 84kg Dandenong Stingrays Midfield
10 Cunnington, Ben 116 24yr 1mth 30 Jun 1991 185cm 87kg Geelong Falcons Midfield
34 MacMillan, Jamie 75 23yr 10mth 23 Sep 1991
5 Jacobs, Ben 62 23yr 6mth 9 Jan 1992 185cm 83kg
41 Mullett, Aaron 50 23yr 5mth 23 Feb 1992 184cm 79kg
23 Harper, Kieran 40 23yr 1mth 15 Jun 1992 187cm 84kg
18 Atley, Shaun 101 22yr 10mth 13 Sep 1992 189cm 84kg
50 Brown, Ben 25 22yr 8mth 20 Nov 1992 200cm 99kg
44 Warren, Max (R) 1 22yr 6mth 29 Jan 1993 181cm 80kg
2 McKenzie, Bradley 22 22yr 2mth 29 May 1993 186cm 84kg
32 Wood, Mason 7 21yr 10mth 13 Sep 1993 192cm 84kg
27 Garner, Taylor 6 21yr 6mth 8 Jan 1994 186cm 80kg
21 McDonald, Luke 32 20yr 5mth 9 Feb 1995 189cm 85kgr
31 Preuss, Braydon (R) 0 20yr 1mth 16 Jun 1995 206cm 102kg
14 Dumont, Trent 7 20yr 1mth 30 Jun 1995 186cm 85kg
40 Turner, Kayne 16 19yr 7mth 31 Dec 1995 180cm 67kg
37 Fordham, Will (R) 0 19yr 4mth 14 Mar 1996 188cm 78kg
33 Vickers-Willis, Ed 0 19yr 4mth 28 Mar 1996 190cm 83k
26 Nielson, Daniel 0 19yr 2mth 9 May 1996 194cm 92kg
24 Durdin, Sam

I must be pretty biased because I think we're pretty well placed. The glaring deficiency is speed on the outside but we can bring that in.

Honestly it feels like yesterday that everyone was talking about our group of young kids coming through. The only thing that has changed is that we've topped up with experienced campaigners through Free Agency.

Blokes like Ziebell, Cunnington, Basti, Wright, MacMillan Daw and Black are still young and haven't even entered into the sweet spot yet. Anything could happen.[/COLOR]

 

[Thewlis Dish]

Most elite players are already top players by Ziebell/Cunnington's age (24) or well on their way. I hate that we're still in the 'they'll get there soon' period with so many guys, conveniently ignoring that they've put together 2-3 similar years in a row.

 

[Benno_900]

Wright - Tarrant - Nielsen
Hansen - Tippett - Atley
McDonald - Dumont - Wood
Higgins - Durdin - Ziebell
Thomas - Brown - Garner
Goldstein - Cunnington - Swallow

Macmillan, Bastinac, Turner, Mullett

Well we really need our 2014 draftees to come on.

 

[archereleven]

Heres my summary:

Daniel Currie- Delist
Brad McKenzie- Listed
Ryan Bastinac- Traded
Shaun Higgins- Listed
Ben Jacobs- Listed
Lachlan Hansen- Traded
Jack Ziebell- Listed
Daniel Wells- Retired
Andrew Swallow- Traded(Not too keen but need to be aggressive to get better)
Ben Cunnington- Listed
Michael Firrito- Retired
Lindsay Thomas- Listed
Leigh Adams- Retired
Trent Dumont- Listed(Personally think he will be a super player)
Nick Dal Santo- Listed
Scott Thompson- Listed(Could trade)
Nathan Grima- Retired
Shaun Atley- Listed
Sam Wright- Listed
Drew Petrie- Retired
Luke McDonald- Listed
Todd Goldstein- Listed
Kieran Harper- Delist
Sam Durdin- Listed
Robbie Tarrant- Listed
Daniel Nielson- Listed
Taylor Garner- Listed
Robin Nahas- Delist
Brent Harvey- Listed(Harvey plays on and gets to 450 imo)
Jarrad Waite- Retired
Braydon Preuss- Listed
Mason Wood- Listed
Ed Vickers Willis- Listed
Jamie Macmillan- Listed
Aaron Black- Traded
Joel Tippett- Delist
Will Fordham- Listed
Majak Daw- Traded
Eric Wallace- Delist
Kayne Turner- Listed
Aaron Mullutt- Listed
Scott McMahon- Retired
Sam Gibson- Traded
Max Warren- Delisted
Ben Brown- Listed(Could be anything for mine with a floor of 30-50 goal 2nd tall forward)

Retirements: Firrito, Adams, Grima, Petrie, Waite, MaMahon
Trades: Bastinac, Hansen, Swallow, Black, Daw, Gibson
Delists: Currie, Harper, Nahas, Tippett, Wallace, Warren

Potential turnover of 20 odd players in 2 seasons. I would consider trading anyone of value who is over 28 at this point in time.

 

[Naked_North]

I disagree with a few (mostly mullett) but i think you are pretty spot on - our list and development really is concerning. Really scratching my head with last years draftees (besides our first pick) the other 2 look like genuine duds

 

[jess_1804]

I disagree with a few (mostly mullett) but i think you are pretty spot on - our list and development really is concerning. Really scratching my head with last years draftees (besides our first pick) the other 2 look like genuine duds

So you're prepared to write off two new draftees who have both had season ending injuries as duds?

 

[GarnerSmash]

I disagree with a few (mostly mullett) but i think you are pretty spot on - our list and development really is concerning. Really scratching my head with last years draftees (besides our first pick) the other 2 look like genuine duds

 

[Naked_North]

Daniel Currie- Delist
Brad McKenzie- Delist
Ryan Bastinac- Trade
Shaun Higgins- Listed
Ben Jacobs- Listed
Lachlan Hansen- listed
Jack Ziebell- Listed
Daniel Wells- Listed
Andrew Swallow- Listed
Ben Cunnington- Listed
Michael Firrito- Retired
Lindsay Thomas- Trade
Leigh Adams- Retired
Trent Dumont- Listed
Nick Dal Santo- Listed
Scott Thompson- Trade (if anyone wants him)
Nathan Grima- Retired
Shaun Atley- Listed
Sam Wright- Listed
Drew Petrie- Listed
Luke McDonald- Listed
Todd Goldstein- Listed
Kieran Harper- Delist
Sam Durdin- Listed
Robbie Tarrant- Listed
Daniel Nielson- Listed (not confident)
Taylor Garner- Listed
Robin Nahas- Delist
Brent Harvey- Listed
Jarrad Waite- Retired
Braydon Preuss- Listed
Mason Wood- Listed
Ed Vickers Willis- Listed
Jamie Macmillan- Listed
Aaron Black- Traded
Joel Tippett- Listed
Will Fordham- Listed
Majak Daw- Traded
Eric Wallace- Delist
Kayne Turner- Listed
Aaron Mullutt- Listed
Scott McMahon- Retired
Sam Gibson- Delist
Max Warren- Delisted
Ben Brown- Listed(Could be anything for mine with a floor of 30-50 goal 2nd tall forward)

If we were fair dinkum we would do this

 

[Naked_North]

So you're prepared to write off two new draftees who have both had season ending injuries as duds?

I wrote them off as soon as they were drafted - Nielson was expected to go late in the draft. Has bad skills and isnt big enough to be a true key position defender. Vickers Willis was another strange pick - utility player that isnt outstanding in any area, more mediocrity for a list already jam packed full of it.

Yeah i am being harsh but our scouting has been pretty average. Im sick of being an average, middle of the road club.

 

[Donkey Chop]

Why on earth would we trade Scott Thompson? And who would want him? He'd be best 22 at every single club

 

[TooUglyForFugly]

My head hurts. Mummy, please make it stop.

 

[RobZombie]

So setting aside quibbles with individual yes/no/maybes it seems pretty clear that the issue in a couple of years' time will be where the game-breaking, match-winning kind of talent comes from. Where's the X-factor?

Garner obviously, he's the next Fyfe[1], but we need a couple more.

I'd be happy with Harper getting it 12 times a game if the rest of his game holds up. Would be a good story for him to make it back[2].

I'd be looking at the Collingwood model, where they've used all their currency, voluntarily or forced, to get the highest rated prospects or draft picks they can rather than straight up "fair value" swaps. A club finishing where they have has done well to stockpile the likes of Freeman, Scharenberg, DeGoey, Adams, etc. We've got enough depth to move on a couple of best 22 players for, say, upgrades in the first round and clear space for your Dumonts, your Garners, your Woods to play more central roles and hurry up their development with some continuity in the seniors while a top-10 pick or two develops.

[1]In all seriouslyness, I'm a long way from being concerned about his level of skills. He's played 6 games and his confidence will grow and execution improve over a couple of seasons.
[2]Just looking at this year's likely list changes it wouldn't be that far-fetched for him to get an extra year and he's already ahead of where we all assumed he'd be in the offseason.

 

[B4Bear]

Best 23 and unders from around the league


I think Brown/McDonald are probably our most promising young players and honestly, I don't think they'd be in the top 75 if you ranked the above players.

You have to be kidding about Brown don't you? A young KPF in his second year at AFL level. Would rate him better than 90% of the young forwards going around.

The recruiting of Brown and Turner should be our model. The talent is obviously out there, you have to find them and trust that they take their chances.

Dropping down the ladder to secure better draft picks is not possible for us. Success, even mid-table, brings commercial monies into the club that we simply can not afford to lose.

Get the best we can in the draft, use FA - Higgins and NDS show that we can do it, and go the older rookies - like Brown.

List management is the least of our concerns imo.

 

[B4Bear]

Heres my summary:

Daniel Currie- Delist
Brad McKenzie- Listed
Ryan Bastinac- Traded
Shaun Higgins- Listed
Ben Jacobs- Listed
Lachlan Hansen- Traded
Jack Ziebell- Listed
Daniel Wells- Retired
Andrew Swallow- Traded(Not too keen but need to be aggressive to get better)
Ben Cunnington- Listed
Michael Firrito- Retired
Lindsay Thomas- Listed
Leigh Adams- Retired
Trent Dumont- Listed(Personally think he will be a super player)
Nick Dal Santo- Listed
Scott Thompson- Listed(Could trade)
Nathan Grima- Retired
Shaun Atley- Listed
Sam Wright- Listed
Drew Petrie- Retired
Luke McDonald- Listed
Todd Goldstein- Listed
Kieran Harper- Delist
Sam Durdin- Listed
Robbie Tarrant- Listed
Daniel Nielson- Listed
Taylor Garner- Listed
Robin Nahas- Delist
Brent Harvey- Listed(Harvey plays on and gets to 450 imo)
Jarrad Waite- Retired
Braydon Preuss- Listed
Mason Wood- Listed
Ed Vickers Willis- Listed
Jamie Macmillan- Listed
Aaron Black- Traded
Joel Tippett- Delist
Will Fordham- Listed
Majak Daw- Traded
Eric Wallace- Delist
Kayne Turner- Listed
Aaron Mullutt- Listed
Scott McMahon- Retired
Sam Gibson- Traded
Max Warren- Delisted
Ben Brown- Listed(Could be anything for mine with a floor of 30-50 goal 2nd tall forward)

Retirements: Firrito, Adams, Grima, Petrie, Waite, MaMahon
Trades: Bastinac, Hansen, Swallow, Black, Daw, Gibson
Delists: Currie, Harper, Nahas, Tippett, Wallace, Warren

Potential turnover of 20 odd players in 2 seasons. I would consider trading anyone of value who is over 28 at this point in time.

Stopped reading when you said to trade the captain.

 

[TooUglyForFugly]

Stopped reading when you said to trade the captain.

Isn't the only one who thinks that is an immediate option ... to be as fair as possible.

 

[B4Bear]

Isn't the only one who thinks that is an immediate option ... to be as fair as possible.

Just because multiple people like stupid ideas, doesn't stop it being stupid.

I would be ******* irate if we attempted to trade him. One day he will not be captain, then look at it; but not before.

 

[jess_1804]

I wrote them off as soon as they were drafted - Nielson was expected to go late in the draft. Has bad skills and isnt big enough to be a true key position defender. Vickers Willis was another strange pick - utility player that isnt outstanding in any area, more mediocrity for a list already jam packed full of it.

Yeah i am being harsh but our scouting has been pretty average. Im sick of being an average, middle of the road club.

Nielson is already bigger than Thompson, and still growing. So I'm sure he'll be fine as a KPP, even if forwards do become 200cm man mountains. Jury is still out on his skills, but the fact that he played a NAB game this year indicates he's heading in the right direction. And yes, EVW does seem a little vanilla, but there's nothing wrong with that. You need the workhorses to complement the x-factor, impact players.

You can only deal the hand you're dealt. I'm sure if someone like a Cockatoo was available we would have snapped them up, but there wasn't. We took what we thought was the best available talent. Just be glad we didn't draft anymore inside mids.

 

[niko11]

For the sake of the argument if Tarrant leaves and we trade Thomo who is left in our backline!

 

[Daz]

You have to be kidding about Brown don't you? A young KPF in his second year at AFL level. Would rate him better than 90% of the young forwards going around.

I like him a lot but a lot of those names are on another level.

 

[TooUglyForFugly]

This topic just reeks of AFL Manager mentality

 

[Donkey Chop]

Just slightly off topic, I like our model of drafting inside mids first and giving them time to develop. They take a lot longer to hit their straps then outside mids. We see young outside types come into sides with a core of hardend inside mids and look amazing. It doesn't matter that they are young and skinny, the only thing that matters is that they are quick and use the ball well. See Brad Hill & Issac Smith.
If we did it the other way around they'd be useless.

 

[Daz]

This topic just reeks of AFL Manager mentality

What's your mentality?