Traded #22: Jake Carlisle - Pt.1 - Traded with some other stuff for pick 5, 24 and a Bird (cont in Part 2)

[yaco55]

Think sometimes we misinterpret the role of players. Hooker has blossomed as a player once he has been moved onto the second and third best forward. The issue is that he probably plays this PARTICULAR role better than any of the defenders. But I still rate Hooker behind Carlisle and Hurley because they are more effective against the Number one forwards.

 

[Bomberblitzer]

Think sometimes we misinterpret the role of players. Hooker has blossomed as a player once he has been moved onto the second and third best forward. The issue is that he probably plays this PARTICULAR role better than any of the defenders. But I still rate Hooker behind Carlisle and Hurley because they are more effective against the Number one forwards.

Hooker has played on Roughead, Petrie and Henderson. All 3 are their team's best KPFs.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Hooker has played on Roughead, Petrie and Henderson. All 3 are their team's best KPFs.

I honestly can't remember but who did Hurley play on v Hawks and North? Also didn't Henderson go back?

 

[yaco55]

Hooker has played on Roughead, Petrie and Henderson. All 3 are their team's best KPFs.

Hooker more commonly plays on the second best forward. It was Carlisle who played on N.Riewoldt/Cloke/J.Brown/Pavlich/Franklin etc in 2013. Hooker sometimes picks up the best forward if its a player who suits his particular profile.

 

[Bomberblitzer]

I honestly can't remember but who did Hurley play on v Hawks and North? Also didn't Henderson go back?

Hurley was on Black vs. North and Bruest/Gunston (I think) against the Hawks.

Henderson played forward for half the game or so and Hooker was on him. Not sure who he played on after that.

 

[Zach Package]

Hurley and Carlisle were never elite in defence. Hooker is getting close. It's not a matter of rinse and repeat.

If Carlisle wasn't elite in defence last year there aren't any elite defenders in the AFL

 

[yaco55]

If Carlisle wasn't elite in defence last year there aren't any elite defenders in the AFL

I'll let you and many others join the media hype about Carlisle. At the halfway mark of 2013, Carlisle was tracking along beautifully and if he had kept up that standard for the remainder of the year, he was a chance to make the AA Squad in 2013. And if he continued that form into 2014, he would be a chance for AA in 2014. Keep it up for another two years and he would be elite. Unfortunately Carlisle's form dropped off a bit in the second half of 2014. He had 3 or 4 stinker games in the second half of 2013, though his last 3 or 4 games were solid. But of course if you believe the media, Carlisle's form fell off the cliff in the latter part of 2013. The best players all have stinker games every year.

And if you are discussing elite defenders in 2013, Hibberd was closer to reaching that level. It was a joke that he didn't make the AA Squad in 2013. Hibberd's form in 2014 has levelled off, though he is progressing nicely.

 

[Despair]

I'll let you and many others join the media hype about Carlisle. At the halfway mark of 2013, Carlisle was tracking along beautifully and if he had kept up that standard for the remainder of the year, he was a chance to make the AA Squad in 2013. And if he continued that form into 2014, he would be a chance for AA in 2014. Keep it up for another two years and he would be elite. Unfortunately Carlisle's form dropped off a bit in the second half of 2014. He had 3 or 4 stinker games in the second half of 2013, though his last 3 or 4 games were solid. But of course if you believe the media, Carlisle's form fell off the cliff in the latter part of 2013. The best players all have stinker games every year.

 

[Kaiser Powser]

I'll let you and many others join the media hype about Carlisle. At the halfway mark of 2013, Carlisle was tracking along beautifully and if he had kept up that standard for the remainder of the year, he was a chance to make the AA Squad in 2013. And if he continued that form into 2014, he would be a chance for AA in 2014. Keep it up for another two years and he would be elite. Unfortunately Carlisle's form dropped off a bit in the second half of 2014. He had 3 or 4 stinker games in the second half of 2013, though his last 3 or 4 games were solid. But of course if you believe the media, Carlisle's form fell off the cliff in the latter part of 2013. The best players all have stinker games every year.

And if you are discussing elite defenders in 2013, Hibberd was closer to reaching that level. It was a joke that he didn't make the AA Squad in 2013. Hibberd's form in 2014 has levelled off, though he is progressing nicely.

By your own criteria Hooker is as far from elite as Carlisle, so the comparison is a fair one.

 

[daffo]

Carlisle when playing in defence is our most important player in the back six.

 

[BrunoV]

I'll let you and many others join the media hype about Carlisle. At the halfway mark of 2013, Carlisle was tracking along beautifully and if he had kept up that standard for the remainder of the year, he was a chance to make the AA Squad in 2013. And if he continued that form into 2014, he would be a chance for AA in 2014. Keep it up for another two years and he would be elite. Unfortunately Carlisle's form dropped off a bit in the second half of 2014. He had 3 or 4 stinker games in the second half of 2013, though his last 3 or 4 games were solid. But of course if you believe the media, Carlisle's form fell off the cliff in the latter part of 2013. The best players all have stinker games every year.

And if you are discussing elite defenders in 2013, Hibberd was closer to reaching that level. It was a joke that he didn't make the AA Squad in 2013. Hibberd's form in 2014 has levelled off, though he is progressing nicely.

I'm with yaco on this. As was the case with Hurley Carlisle's efforts in defence get exaggerated the more he isn't there.

If punters aren't irrationally savaging a young player for his performances they are going overboard with superlatives. The majority of people need to learn to distinguish the story for now from the bigger picture, and no you won't get any guidance from the media.

 

[Whispering_Jack]

I'm with yaco on this. As was the case with Hurley Carlisle's efforts in defence get exaggerated the more he isn't there.

If punters aren't irrationally savaging a young player for his performances they are going overboard with superlatives. The majority of people need to learn to distinguish the story for now from the bigger picture, and no you won't get any guidance from the media.

No, he was being lauded everywhere last year while still playing in defence and in form. There seemed to be articles every second week on how well he was doing in the first half of last year as he was picking off opponents.

 

[BrunoV]

No, he was being lauded everywhere last year while still playing in defence and in form. There seemed to be articles every second week on how well he was doing in the first half of last year as he was picking off opponents.

That's exactly right. "Wow look at young Carlisle and how well he is playing in defence...he must be close to All Australian contention even though it is round 6". It was like the time Heppell was supposed to win our best and fairest in his first year and that he had something akin to second year blues even though he played in the midfield and was much better in his second year than his first.

The reality is that taking his youth and inexperience away and simply measuring him against the best Carlisle is not close to McPharlin, Taylor, Johnson and Reid who are the truly elite KPDs in the competition.

 

[Whispering_Jack]

That's exactly right. "Wow look at young Carlisle and how well he is playing in defence...he must be close to All Australian contention even though it is round 6". It was like the time Heppell was supposed to win our best and fairest in his first year and that he had something akin to second year blues even though he played in the midfield and was much better in his second year than his first.

The reality is that taking his youth and inexperience away and simply measuring him against the best Carlisle is not close to McPharlin, Taylor, Johnson and Reid who are the truly elite KPDs in the competition.

No, but his form for the first half of the year was as good or better than those you mentioned. That's why everyone is holding him up with such high esteem...

 

[rines]

Carlisle in 2013: Fantastic in the early rounds, pinch hit up forward late in a couple of games to great effect, was started forward, stunk it up for a couple of games and was carrying a small back injury, got moved back and finished the season solidly.

Hmm... the common theme being.. started up forward and stunk it up.

But in all their wisdom they thought they would see if they could replicate the mistake this year..

Carlisle dominated every key forward he was on early last year.

 

[BrunoV]

Carlisle dominated every key forward who could not burn him on the lead. He got luck with Pavlich who had not done a preseason.

 

[rines]

Carlisle dominated every key forward who could not burn him on the lead. He got luck with Pavlich who had not done a preseason.

Yep, that is a good point..

However Carlisle compensated for 'leading' forwards but letting them go up to the wings.. and then would cover them whenever they got within 55m from goals.

 

[Bomberblitzer]

Just in case some of us have forgotten who we're talking about...

 

[rines]

Just in case some of us have forgotten who we're talking about...

All except the training vid from last year yes? and yeah.. look at the passion and intensity he was playing with.. not even recognisable from the player we have seen the last two-three weeks.

 

[Zach Package]

should we take the buckets of cash he can save us and throw them at Dangerfield?

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

I'm a little disappointed in Jake, I reckon he should be tracking AA for pinch hit ruck, forward and defender.

He should be able to play at AA level ruck 1 week, forward the next and defence the week after.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Seems like he'll play going by what Jobe said this morning.

 

[rines]

He is playing.. up forward.. probably has a big calendar on the wall and is counting down the days..

But hopefully he can get a few and get pumped up.

 

[Doss]

Or maybe, if that little public rocket had the desired effect, he'll have given himself a little uppercut and renewed his enthusiasm.

Hope he tears them to shreds, for many reasons.

 

[yaco55]

No, he was being lauded everywhere last year while still playing in defence and in form. There seemed to be articles every second week on how well he was doing in the first half of last year as he was picking off opponents.

That's exactly my point. The media over-hype players which sometimes carries over to the AA selectors. I posted last year that Carlisle was displaying attributes that could lead to him being elite and possibly AA selection - But he wasn't AA calibre midway through last year. Hibbers was the player who was closer to AA selection. And Hibberd is heading towards elite statue in his positio.

I wonder about the AA selections. Natanui was nowhere near it in 2012, Cameron was hyped into the team in 2013.